1. #1461
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Same for me, well 10 man ofc, I felt violated having to switch to HA.

    I never understood from a 10 man PoV why Horridon is considered one of those "go to" fights for HA. DP is just amazing on that fight. There is no issue tanking Horridon the entire last phase using DP. The melee hits between the punctures did not hit that hard even on heroic as I had expected. Maybe the melee hits are harder on 25 man but I dont know. Of course HA is completely viable on that fight, and possibly even on-par with DP. Just never understood what seems to be the general consensus that Horridon is a go-to fight for HA, it is a very good fight for DP.
    In my case, I don't trust my healers. Too many deaths due to regular melee in between keeping SotR up for Punctures in that last bit while he's enraged, so I'd rather do something like HA and rock back to back SotRs to keep the reduction rolling than hope I get a DP proc and risk being killed (and also because when that happens I have to listen to a certain shapechanging forest creature gloat about how it just tickles him, so why is it killing me)
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  2. #1462
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    Oh, we have a lot of derps... trust me and our 375+ pulls of Lei shen with no kill (3% LAST NIGHT THE FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU). I swapped to DP somewhere around the end of T14, and only used HA for 3/4's of our H-DA attempts.
    I feel your pain. We had about 150 pulls and we only got to P3 for the first time yesterday.
    Since we have only 1 raid left before patch, there's no way we are going to kill it. 10mans have it so much easier on this boss.
    Lethora, 90 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
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  3. #1463
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    I feel your pain. We had about 150 pulls and we only got to P3 for the first time yesterday.
    Since we have only 1 raid left before patch, there's no way we are going to kill it. 10mans have it so much easier on this boss.
    You got that shit right. Was talking to someone who raids 10s last week, and they had like 35 pulls on Lei Shen before he fell. Seriously? There's like what, 3 bouncing balls and only 1 helm of command?



  4. #1464
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebot View Post
    Might've been for back when everyone was really shitty geared I guess. Back when you had to kill jalak and horridon took a while to die after that. Not like it is today where most guilds kill horridon just as jalak spawns or if you actually do kill jalak - then horridon is dead 5 seconds later.
    Yeah, but that is my point exactly. There was no way you would kill Horridon in the time that your HA wall was up, which would leave you weaker as soon as it went away. I would totally understand it if the last phase only lasted 40 seconds, but it does not (in reasonable gear). The last phase is kinda long, and in 10's, simply covering all punctures and calls with SotR is enough.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #1465
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    I feel your pain. We had about 150 pulls and we only got to P3 for the first time yesterday.
    Since we have only 1 raid left before patch, there's no way we are going to kill it. 10mans have it so much easier on this boss.
    If by in 10man you don't have as many people fucking the transitions up - sure.

    I think in your case it has a lot to do with the dead weight being carried in Fury. I've been there. It wasn't pretty.

  6. #1466
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    In my case, I don't trust my healers. Too many deaths due to regular melee in between keeping SotR up for Punctures in that last bit while he's enraged, so I'd rather do something like HA and rock back to back SotRs to keep the reduction rolling than hope I get a DP proc and risk being killed (and also because when that happens I have to listen to a certain shapechanging forest creature gloat about how it just tickles him, so why is it killing me)
    When we were progressing on H Horridon, I swapped between HA and DP to see which felt better. In the end, I actually liked DP more despite my initial fear that it's RNG factor would be less than optimal. I found that it procc'd fairly often in-between TP's which helped me build up a nice SoTR to cover TP (especially if I was being too trigger happy and didn't time SoTR properly).

    I can see HA being super useful during the burn phase on heroic because Horridon hits like a truck, but on normal if you're getting killed by Horridon, your healers must be falling asleep. Depending on your DPS, the burn phase doesn't last too long so you can make sure you have both GoAK and AD up to give you a nice cushion.

  7. #1467
    High Overlord Sevona's Avatar
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    Got a question concerning trinkets at the start of 5.4:

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r%C3%A9/simple
    I'm currently running with spark (hero thunderforged) and feather (just hero). With the nerf to feather I want to replace it.
    Unfortunately the only 3 "adequate" replacements would be:

    - Fortitude of Zandalari (heroic) http://www.wowhead.com/item=96421
    - Soul Barrier (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=94528
    - Brutal Talisman (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=94508

    Would you replace feather with one of these? Any suggestions/ideas will be highly appreciated!
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  8. #1468
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevona View Post
    Got a question concerning trinkets at the start of 5.4:

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r%C3%A9/simple
    I'm currently running with spark (hero thunderforged) and feather (just hero). With the nerf to feather I want to replace it.
    Unfortunately the only 3 "adequate" replacements would be:

    - Fortitude of Zandalari (heroic) http://www.wowhead.com/item=96421
    - Soul Barrier (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=94528
    - Brutal Talisman (normal) http://www.wowhead.com/item=94508

    Would you replace feather with one of these? Any suggestions/ideas will be highly appreciated!
    I wouldn't really call that change a "nerf". Well, not for us. It is designed to reduce the initial burst, but that is less important for tanks. I could argue, that the shorter, but more common uptime for it is actually better for SS/ES.

    If you really want to change it, then Brutal for now. I don't think that the normal raid will be much of a challenge survivability wise, and the extra DPS will help with the enrages.

  9. #1469
    High Overlord Sevona's Avatar
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    Thanks for your insight. I guess, you're right and we won't have survivability-issues in 10m normal at least.
    Just give it a try on Patchday
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  10. #1470
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebot View Post
    If by in 10man you don't have as many people fucking the transitions up - sure.

    I think in your case it has a lot to do with the dead weight being carried in Fury. I've been there. It wasn't pretty.
    Well, I've raided 10 and 25 this expansion. 10man just feels like oversized dungeon in terms of difficulty. 25man feels like good old TBC raiding.
    Don't really see myself going back to 10mans, even though they are much easier to execute.

    Yeah, we have some bad players, but that's the reality you have to deal with when you raid semi-hardcore 25mans with 3 day/week schedule. We're pretty much the only 25man guild on my realm. Second closest is 6/13H, which is a bad progress at this point no matter how you put that.
    Lethora, 90 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
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  11. #1471
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    Well, I've raided 10 and 25 this expansion. 10man just feels like oversized dungeon in terms of difficulty. 25man feels like good old TBC raiding.
    Don't really see myself going back to 10mans, even though they are much easier to execute.

    Yeah, we have some bad players, but that's the reality you have to deal with when you raid semi-hardcore 25mans with 3 day/week schedule. We're pretty much the only 25man guild on my realm. Second closest is 6/13H, which is a bad progress at this point no matter how you put that.
    Aye I know - still have a few alts left on the server. Although on alliance side these days.

    Having done both 10 and 25man this expansion pretty close to full clears on both difficulties - there's a lot of different difficulties on each fight that are different for each size. But for the most part in non-top50 guilds (give or take) what mostly makes 25man seem more difficult than 10mans is the extra people you have to bring along. Not that they're necessarily bad. But they're unfortunately little too often the ones screwing things up.

  12. #1472
    Edit: actually meant to post this in the paladin solo thread...

    So, I have usually been two manning FL HC with a friend, this week my friend is away so I had to do it alone. I had no problem with the first 6 bosses on HC really, had to adjust tactic a bit on the bosses, but they were all really easy.

    I did however meet my doom on the worms before ragnaros, anyone got a good start to solo those? Feels like I am just missing something really obvious but cant keep them both in melee range which causes one of them to rape me with molten blast. Anyone tried Raggy HC? How easy is he to kill?

    Edit 2: Well, managed to clear the trash by the stars aligning allowing me to kill one worm at the same time I died, apparently they dont respawn as some other trash in that instance, so if you kill 1 and wipe, there is only 1 to kill. Guess I am gonna have to play with raggy now then.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-09-08 at 05:44 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #1473
    Heroic Rag definitely is possible alone, I think I saw somebody posting about it on maintankadin a while ago.
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  14. #1474
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Heroic Rag definitely is possible alone, I think I saw somebody posting about it on maintankadin a while ago.
    Yeah, almost got it down to P4 in a few pulls, but then I realised that mount drops in normal aswell and didnt want any xmog from heroic there, so just did it on normal instead

    Pulling all scorpions to rag really trivialises the fight. Slabbing on the delicate vial for good measure.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #1475
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Yeah, almost got it down to P4 in a few pulls, but then I realised that mount drops in normal aswell and didnt want any xmog from heroic there, so just did it on normal instead

    Pulling all scorpions to rag really trivialises the fight. Slabbing on the delicate vial for good measure.
    It doesn't, those drops listed on Wowhead are from when it was bugged for a few hours and it dropped on normal. It was hotfixed to only drop from heroic.
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  16. #1476
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    It doesn't, those drops listed on Wowhead are from when it was bugged for a few hours and it dropped on normal. It was hotfixed to only drop from heroic.
    Comments from wowhead says it is still dropping in normal though. The mount always dropped 1% from normal and 100% from heroic, afaik the droprate is 1% in both now.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  17. #1477
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Comments from wowhead says it is still dropping in normal though. The mount always dropped 1% from normal and 100% from heroic, afaik the droprate is 1% in both now.
    Yep, this is correct.
    Lethora, 90 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
    Amberglow, 90 Assassination Rogue, Shadowsong-EU
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  18. #1478

    I feel like I'm doing extremely poorly as a tank.

    I'm not sure what it is. My damage is low and my threat even worse. Every other tank has much higher threat.
    My gear isn't great. At all. But I still feel inferior to the content I'm supposed to be able to clear. I take so much damage.

    When I'm tanking, I have a GCD in which I can't use anything. I think it's after the 3rd or 4th CS. Am I just too low on haste?
    Last edited by Ghettobeast; 2013-09-12 at 06:49 PM.

  19. #1479
    We need some information to help you. Armory can show us whether you're gearing correctly, and logs go a long way toward revealing any gaping holes in your play.

    Do you understand the active mitigation model of tanking and how you're supposed to manage it as a paladin?

  20. #1480
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghettobeast View Post
    I'm not sure what it is. My damage is low and my threat even worse. Every other tank has much higher threat.
    My gear isn't great. At all. But I still feel inferior to the content I'm supposed to be able to clear. I take so much damage.

    When I'm tanking, I have a GCD in which I can't use anything. I think it's after the 3rd or 4th CS. Am I just too low on haste?
    First things first: Are you dying to bosses? Healers saying you're squishy? Damage + Threat can be gear or can be related to the others in your group; speaking from experience I constantly lose threat to a 535+ bear tank, and there isn't anything I can do about it in most cases. Damage without vengeance tends to be fairly crappy, and Vengeance was also nerfed in 5.4 I believe.

    Armory is a must to properly evaluate you; logs would help even more to gauge your uptime. Having an empty GCD can happen sometimes, I run into it a few times, honestly IMO that's not a big deal as Blizzard has long since moved away from having something to fill every GCD, as clunky as it feels.
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