1. #1541
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    Well, if you can reforge any excess, expertise has the stat weight of whatever you can reforge into. I tend to value hit and expertise at the next highest stat (say, haste at 1), as I've been capping them and able to reforge.
    Which still makes no sense since you shouldn't be able to reforge exp to haste in 540+ gear.

    The stat value of exp is equal to mastery period.
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-09-19 at 02:33 PM.
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  2. #1542
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Which still makes no sense since you shouldn't be able to reforge exp to hit in 540+ gear.
    To haste (not hit) you mean?

    Of course it makes sense for me - not everyone is in 540+ gear.

  3. #1543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    While I do agree that the 553 legs are of course better than the 522 legs (even though I completely disagree with your stat weights).

    One thing that you should keep in mind is that you should never really count the stat weight of expertise when comparing two items. That stat weights of expertise has been irrelevant for people using exp>haste since entry level T14 and for people going for haste>exp since entry level T15. Now in T16 it is completely irrelevant unless your gear has the worst itemization in the world or you are still very very undergeared.
    I disagree with that solely from the fact that I don't see many/any paladins NOT reforging into expertise. I'm personally reforging a piece or two from mastery into expertise on my set. There's still value until we can cap in gear. That'll go away as T16 or HT16 progresses though so I'll agree with you at that point.

    I made those stat weight somewhat more haste friendly than the I believe the contribution is for damage smoothing actually. From what I'm currently simming in terms of TMI the value of mastery is closer to 4:5 and dodge/parry is more valuable than 1:3 in ratio of haste because of the fact that pallies have so much haste. It boosts the value of every other stat as it approaches the GCD cap.

  4. #1544
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    To haste (not hit) you mean?

    Of course it makes sense for me - not everyone is in 540+ gear.
    Yeah I was able to reach expertise cap in 520 ilvl while going haste>exp, so pretty safe to say that anywhere around 510-530 depending on your itemization expertise gets the stat weight of mastery/crit/dodge/parry depending on what you can reforge it into. Anyone getting 553 items should probably be around that item level which leads to the conclusion that for most players where the transition from a 522-535 to 553 item is relevant, expertise has the value of the "worse" secondary stats.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gerus View Post
    I disagree with that solely from the fact that I don't see many/any paladins NOT reforging into expertise. I'm personally reforging a piece or two from mastery into expertise on my set. There's still value until we can cap in gear. That'll go away as T16 or HT16 progresses though so I'll agree with you at that point.
    I do not know how you can possibly disagree with that. It is very basic stuff.

    Once you reach expertise cap and get more expertise, you have to options.

    1. Go over the cap = that extra expertise has 0 value
    2. Reforge/gem into something else than expertise = expertise has the value of whatever stat you can obtain, which for most players would be mastery, in some cases crit/parry/dodge

    Number 2 is obviously the most likely option.

    Since you can reach expertise cap at about 470 ilvl with exp>haste prio or at about 510-530 ilvl with haste>exp prio, that means that if you are using exp>haste prio, expertise has the stat value of expertise until around 470ilvl, then the stat value of haste until 510-530 ilvl and roughly the value of mastery after that. Actually a tad bit lower due to you not always being able to reforge perfectly to mastery, say you are 300 expertise over cap, chances are you wil only be able to get about 150-250 mastery out of it without going below expertise cap.

    If you are using haste>exp prio then expertise has the value of expertise until 510-530 ilvl when once again it gets the value of mastery (roughly).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    Well, if you can reforge any excess, expertise has the stat weight of whatever you can reforge into. I tend to value hit and expertise at the next highest stat (say, haste at 1), as I've been capping them and able to reforge.

    Currently, extra hit has a weight of 0 for me though, as I'm so loaded with the stuff I'm tempted to buy the VP expertise trinket and ditch my feather.
    Yes, that was what I implied. Expertise and hit has the value of whatever stat you can reforge it into.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #1545
    Tx all for the comments.

    I raid 10 M, usually NM, but at the end of the patches we use to catch some of the heroics. That's why I use to rate stamina quite low.

  6. #1546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I do not know how you can possibly disagree with that. It is very basic stuff.
    <snip>

    If you are using haste>exp prio then expertise has the value of expertise until 510-530 ilvl when once again it gets the value of mastery (roughly).
    Mastery is the likely target. It's not guaranteed though so I would state that you are correct in the general case.

  7. #1547
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Actually a tad bit lower due to you not always being able to reforge perfectly to mastery, say you are 300 expertise over cap, chances are you wil only be able to get about 150-250 mastery out of it without going below expertise cap.
    Not quite right if you're already at the cap, because it can also go the other way round.
    I'd say it's something like 1:1 for exp:mastery with a variance of +-150 depending on pre/post change exp levels.
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  8. #1548
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Not quite right if you're already at the cap, because it can also go the other way round.
    I'd say it's something like 1:1 for exp:mastery with a variance of +-150 depending on pre/post change exp levels.
    Yeah true, it could be the other way around.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #1549
    Reposting as it got lost..

    Can someone assist with my Prot DPS and subsequently my Prot Threat? I am tanking with a monk and I feel absolutely useless, he has to actually relax on bosses after I taunt even with vengeance changes and AOE packs are laughable. I know monks are pretty insane right now and their Keg Smash is stupid, but I feel like there's something I can do...

    I'm offspec tanking, filling in for our 2nd tank right now, so it won't last long. But I still feel like it's something I should work on.

    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=3897&e=4222
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Darot/advanced

  10. #1550
    Quote Originally Posted by MarshallX View Post
    Reposting as it got lost..

    Can someone assist with my Prot DPS and subsequently my Prot Threat? I am tanking with a monk and I feel absolutely useless, he has to actually relax on bosses after I taunt even with vengeance changes and AOE packs are laughable. I know monks are pretty insane right now and their Keg Smash is stupid, but I feel like there's something I can do...

    I'm offspec tanking, filling in for our 2nd tank right now, so it won't last long. But I still feel like it's something I should work on.

    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=3897&e=4222
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Darot/advanced
    If you are tanking with a monk, there really is nothing you can do on AoE. For single target, make sure to abuse that taunt threat buff. Whenever you are gonna make a tank swap, make sure you have AS and SotR ready to go, so right when you taunt you can hit AS and SotR, that way you get a threat boost so high that he wont be able to overaggro you back.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #1551
    Quote Originally Posted by MarshallX View Post
    Reposting as it got lost..

    Can someone assist with my Prot DPS and subsequently my Prot Threat? I am tanking with a monk and I feel absolutely useless, he has to actually relax on bosses after I taunt even with vengeance changes and AOE packs are laughable. I know monks are pretty insane right now and their Keg Smash is stupid, but I feel like there's something I can do...

    I'm offspec tanking, filling in for our 2nd tank right now, so it won't last long. But I still feel like it's something I should work on.

    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=3897&e=4222
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Darot/advanced
    Your haste is awfully low which is due to gearing choices (like don't you have ret belt/shoulders/bracers/rings.....?), way too many stam/exp/str gems, overcapping exp,.......................
    And yeah don't sweat it on aoe - monks are just that much better at it especially with the dps cloak.
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  12. #1552
    Btw, just out of curiosity.

    What happens with 4pc if you heal others while at 3+ charges of BoG? Simply it doesnt trigger? The way its worded seems that we would have infinite HoPo for healing others that way.

    Tried to look it up and didnt find any comment about that.

  13. #1553
    Quote Originally Posted by Kethmil View Post
    Btw, just out of curiosity.

    What happens with 4pc if you heal others while at 3+ charges of BoG? Simply it doesnt trigger? The way its worded seems that we would have infinite HoPo for healing others that way.

    Tried to look it up and didnt find any comment about that.
    You still lose the BoG stacks as far as I'm aware.

  14. #1554
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    You still lose the BoG stacks as far as I'm aware.
    If that is the case than that is kinda bullshit. I often use EF on the raid to help out healing, but if I would lose my own BoG stacks doing so it would suck.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #1555
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Your haste is awfully low which is due to gearing choices (like don't you have ret belt/shoulders/bracers/rings.....?), way too many stam/exp/str gems, overcapping exp,.......................
    And yeah don't sweat it on aoe - monks are just that much better at it especially with the dps cloak.
    Great points...didn't even cross my mind to crossover some ret gear. Updated:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Darot/advanced

  16. #1556
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    mispost, wrong page ftw!
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  17. #1557
    Are people killing their trial add on Norushen? I felt dismayed when I struggled against it for so long, only to be ported out before it was dead, but then read Icy Veins and it says you just need to survive. I'm only in about 538 gear, so I am pretty sure it's beyond me in my present gear even in 10N. Are other people killing it or should I just chill and focus on survival? Fluffing an interrupt was a death sentence for me.

  18. #1558
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    If that is the case than that is kinda bullshit. I often use EF on the raid to help out healing, but if I would lose my own BoG stacks doing so it would suck.
    Agree. Would be bad design, making tier non desirable.

    Hope it just doesnt trigger tier when healing others. Or even better, hope we have infinite 3-HoPo EFs for healing raid (a man can drean, hehe).

  19. #1559
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    If that is the case than that is kinda bullshit. I often use EF on the raid to help out healing, but if I would lose my own BoG stacks doing so it would suck.
    Yeah I agree, I just don't know how else they would get you to not abuse it. I really don't know though, and can't wait to see it myself. At 2p now. It would be broken if you had infinite WoGs for the raid and it would be strange if the bonus only applies when cast on yourself, seems like something that should be mentioned. I'm really interested in this now to see exactly how it works, hope I get my 4p with the clear this week.

  20. #1560
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    Are people killing their trial add on Norushen? I felt dismayed when I struggled against it for so long, only to be ported out before it was dead, but then read Icy Veins and it says you just need to survive. I'm only in about 538 gear, so I am pretty sure it's beyond me in my present gear even in 10N. Are other people killing it or should I just chill and focus on survival? Fluffing an interrupt was a death sentence for me.

    There is 0 point to killing the add. You are down there for a minute.

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