1. #1641
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Speaking of Nairobi - what has happened to him? He hasn't done any raiding since week 1 :-(
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  2. #1642
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebirthz View Post
    i'm jumping on Siege Normal as soon as possible since my guild really needs a tank, about the lvl 90 talent what should i take then?
    IMO use it depending on fights. I like to use Prism for Immerseus (helps with healing the little guys), LH for Protectors (use on Sun's special phase if you're inside the bubble; I go inside since I tank He Softfoot), LH for Norushen (drop it on the small adds to help DPS, LH for Sha of Pride (use on add duty to pick up the Reflection guys), I'd probably use LH for Galakras if on adds or Prism if on towers, then probably Prism for Juggernaut, LH for Shamans (for Oozes), and probably Prism for Nazgrim, and that's as far as I've seen on any difficulty right now

    The one thing I personally cannot shake is the feeling of lack of health. In my gear I barely clear 700k buffed without a stam flask, and yet I see loads of tanks with 750k+ buffed and of course heroic tanks can have like 900k or more, but I don't want to gem Stamina or anything because I don't really feel squishy. My main problem is too many red sockets, and I'm swimming in hit and expertise; like I got an LFR T16 chest and ignored the socket bonus even though it was like +270 Stam because getting +360 Expertise when I can't reforge it away doesn't seem like it's worth getting the extra Haste.
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  3. #1643
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    I've gotten used to Holy Prism, after Nairobi's recommendation here. It seems to fill the odd gap in my rotation and I like the extra healing, AOE (I tend to glyph AS to be single target so a bit more AOE is nice) and ranged pickup.

    Light's hammer seems the most popular tankadin pick - I think it would be very good for raid healing if you know the fights and when it's best to use it, but as I'm learning SoO, not having it is one less thing to worry about.

    ES is the best for single target dps and most fights do seem to be single target, but at your gear level, I would focus on survival.
    If you look back to T14 and T15, the use of ES was mostly when HP and LH was bad, not when ES was good. The fights that you used ES for was when you would not really get any decent healing out of HP or LH, or when the content was on farm for rankings since the heals was not needed. Going into T16, tanks are a much smaller part of the damage done which makes ES less attractive. The only real reason to use it is if you want to rank on farm or if you really dont get any effective healing done with HP/LH. There has been one exception to this during this tier, and that is siegecrafter, mainly heroic, on which ES is the goto talent. Siegecrafter N or H is the only fight that I would actively recommend ES. For all other fights you should really find use for HP/LH, but there are several fights where you can use ES if you feel like the healing is fine, fights like Sha of Pride, Nazgrim and Malkorok and probably a few more you can use ES if you really dont need the healing, but likely nothing you would do during progress.


    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Speaking of Nairobi - what has happened to him? He hasn't done any raiding since week 1 :-(
    I am wondering that too

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    The one thing I personally cannot shake is the feeling of lack of health. In my gear I barely clear 700k buffed without a stam flask, and yet I see loads of tanks with 750k+ buffed and of course heroic tanks can have like 900k or more, but I don't want to gem Stamina or anything because I don't really feel squishy. My main problem is too many red sockets, and I'm swimming in hit and expertise; like I got an LFR T16 chest and ignored the socket bonus even though it was like +270 Stam because getting +360 Expertise when I can't reforge it away doesn't seem like it's worth getting the extra Haste.
    I do not feel like the health pool is an issue on most fights. I am barely breaking 800k health with stamina flask and stamina buff, and my armor is fairly low as is my haste (44%). Yet I have no problem in heroic content. I never felt squishy really, but felt like I needed more gear still so I could stop using stamina flask.
    With 545 item level that I have currently now, everything felt easily manageable, but I still had to pay attention. Granted my tanking experiece so far is 14/14N with thok and siegecrafter on heroic, I was not part of the farm last week, going in today and clearing the other heroics so I will see if my opinion changes then.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #1644
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    The one thing I personally cannot shake is the feeling of lack of health. In my gear I barely clear 700k buffed without a stam flask, and yet I see loads of tanks with 750k+ buffed and of course heroic tanks can have like 900k or more, but I don't want to gem Stamina or anything because I don't really feel squishy. My main problem is too many red sockets, and I'm swimming in hit and expertise; like I got an LFR T16 chest and ignored the socket bonus even though it was like +270 Stam because getting +360 Expertise when I can't reforge it away doesn't seem like it's worth getting the extra Haste.
    I would have to agree with what firefly says! I never gem any thing except haste gems (ignoring socket bonus) 750k HP unbuffed. Most of the time i run a str flask on most normal fights these days too. Im sitting at 548 ilvl 48.72% haste. With all the nice Damage reduction cooldowns we have plus high SoTr uptime and SoI procs I dont really worry about my health pool

  5. #1645
    Quote Originally Posted by Evoix View Post
    I would have to agree with what firefly says! I never gem any thing except haste gems (ignoring socket bonus) 750k HP unbuffed. Most of the time i run a str flask on most normal fights these days too. Im sitting at 548 ilvl 48.72% haste. With all the nice Damage reduction cooldowns we have plus high SoTr uptime and SoI procs I dont really worry about my health pool
    Eww, str flask...why not haste+armor elixirs? Sure, flasks are cheaper (when wiping), but still

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  6. #1646
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evoix View Post
    I would have to agree with what firefly says! I never gem any thing except haste gems (ignoring socket bonus) 750k HP unbuffed. Most of the time i run a str flask on most normal fights these days too. Im sitting at 548 ilvl 48.72% haste. With all the nice Damage reduction cooldowns we have plus high SoTr uptime and SoI procs I dont really worry about my health pool
    You ignore all sockets bonuses to go 100% haste? I might have to give that a shot; usually unless the socket bonus is something crappy (e.g. Dodge, usually Strength) I'll go with something+Haste for the appropriate socket (Haste for yellow Hit/Haste for Blue or maybe Stam/Haste since I have the Feather still so I'm like 1% over Hit cap, Exp/Haste for Red).

    I think my overall lack of health is just iLevel, I'm only 532 iLevel so that might be why I'm seeing others with such high health pools. Like I said I don't feel squishy.
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  7. #1647
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    You ignore all sockets bonuses to go 100% haste? I might have to give that a shot; usually unless the socket bonus is something crappy (e.g. Dodge, usually Strength) I'll go with something+Haste for the appropriate socket (Haste for yellow Hit/Haste for Blue or maybe Stam/Haste since I have the Feather still so I'm like 1% over Hit cap, Exp/Haste for Red).

    I think my overall lack of health is just iLevel, I'm only 532 iLevel so that might be why I'm seeing others with such high health pools. Like I said I don't feel squishy.
    Today I swapped by last haste/exp gem to a haste gem. Unless there is an amazing bonus I wont take it.

    Health pool is directly related to item level (presuming you dont gem/enchant for stamina) so yeah, that is probably why. If people use stamina trinkets that have a huge impact on their ilvl:healthpool ratio, but overall, get a few more item levels and your health will shoot up.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #1648
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Eww, str flask...why not haste+armor elixirs? Sure, flasks are cheaper (when wiping), but still
    lol yea, we have some...well to put it nicely.... Raiders who take awhile to learn raid mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    You ignore all sockets bonuses to go 100% haste? I might have to give that a shot; usually unless the socket bonus is something crappy (e.g. Dodge, usually Strength) I'll go with something+Haste for the appropriate socket (Haste for yellow Hit/Haste for Blue or maybe Stam/Haste since I have the Feather still so I'm like 1% over Hit cap, Exp/Haste for Red).

    I think my overall lack of health is just iLevel, I'm only 532 iLevel so that might be why I'm seeing others with such high health pools. Like I said I don't feel squishy.
    yep! 21 quick sun radiance gems! I think i was around 730k hp raid buffed when i was close to your ilvl if that helps. I cant post a link to the armory but if you want to look up my toon its Evoix on US-Icecrown. Guild is Peons No More.

  9. #1649
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    You ignore all sockets bonuses to go 100% haste? I might have to give that a shot; usually unless the socket bonus is something crappy (e.g. Dodge, usually Strength) I'll go with something+Haste for the appropriate socket (Haste for yellow Hit/Haste for Blue or maybe Stam/Haste since I have the Feather still so I'm like 1% over Hit cap, Exp/Haste for Red).

    I think my overall lack of health is just iLevel, I'm only 532 iLevel so that might be why I'm seeing others with such high health pools. Like I said I don't feel squishy.
    I had been doing the same until halfway through T15 (I'm sure FF and Nairobi, were he still around, remembers our discussions/their trying to convince me to change); at the time I made the change, I lost like 50k hp and gained ~5k haste (if you're really interested you can peruse the threads/my post history to find the exact numbers...), and felt a lot more durable - plus, the extra haste made a noticeable difference in how active the play way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evoix View Post
    lol yea, we have some...well to put it nicely.... Raiders who take awhile to learn raid mechanics.
    Oh, I know exactly how that is...which is why I tend not to use anything on the first few pulls, but when the attempts improve I'll start using my elixirs (I go on the philosophy of, my performance isn't holding us back, so I'll wait for the raid to improve before throwing elixirs at the problem). I can honestly say that, the presense or absence of elixirs on me doesn't determine the outcome of a fight. And yes, I know that, were the entire raid to follow my example, there might be problems, but considering I give the raid flasks (and am the only one to use elixirs), it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  10. #1650
    You can often get elixirs for free on the AH, because people build them for leveling thinking no one wants them anyway.
    Other than that the annoying part about elixirs is sitting there for minutes waiting for them to finish crafting.
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  11. #1651
    They should really make a "Chef's Hat" for every profession...or make it so that at each "cap", all items at/below take half as long to craft (multiplicative, of course )

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  12. #1652
    People who farmed one of the rare Hozen mobs in Vale and got Helpful Wikky's Whistle to drop can get a free bag of elixirs every 2 hours from massing ~50 killing blows. You can just cheese that count in the same way that you would for getting easy grisly trophies for the darkmoon faire quest.

    Elixirs generated through these means lower the prices for everyone else. I don't think a whole lot of people craft these elixirs when they're leveling. Probably people are making potions.

  13. #1653
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I'll have to remember that and look at going pure Haste, at least to give it test run and see how it plays. I know that I am so used to having haste now that it felt really weird trying to play my Warrior again, felt like slogging through molasses.
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  14. #1654
    Agreed, my paladin is close to 46% haste now before elixirs, very close to 1 second GCD. Trying to level my prot warrior is so painful, it feels like so long before I can hit another button. Makes me not want to play it.

  15. #1655
    Pure haste is the way to go. Last tier I had poor itemization despite a high ilvl (like the HTF Horridon helm) and only ran about 15k haste. Didn't think I was really missing out, but now I'm almost 20k and the difference feels staggering.

  16. #1656
    Having issues with keeping SoTR up - My uptime is like 30-40% on bosses. I just got some new gear last night so havent gem'd chanted it but i go for haste when i can. In the logs i was at close to 50% haste. Link to armory is in sig... i "think" im just not managing CD's and rotation and just want to confirm...

    Ock -
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2oapg3z5hjelgtpk/


    Whats average time this should be up? I went from 10% and lower to 30-40% and see a big difference but i see people w/70%+ uptime.

  17. #1657
    Quote Originally Posted by notraakaakaa View Post
    Having issues with keeping SoTR up - My uptime is like 30-40% on bosses. I just got some new gear last night so havent gem'd chanted it but i go for haste when i can. In the logs i was at close to 50% haste. Link to armory is in sig... i "think" im just not managing CD's and rotation and just want to confirm...

    Whats average time this should be up? I went from 10% and lower to 30-40% and see a big difference but i see people w/70%+ uptime.
    I do not believe Swiftblades cunning (and simmilar buffs) affect our Sanctity of Battle. So you would only have your normal 31% haste i see on your armory. Most of the time when you see higher SoTR uptime they are closer to 45-50% haste. Hope that helps!

  18. #1658
    Armory Link: Kyara
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs:
    Worldoflogs Link: LOG
    Questions, concerns, expectations: I take a lot damage more than our other Tank (Blood dk) during boss-fights, his gear is a bit better but it feels like i get twice the dmg from the bosses. I don´t know what it is but since 5.4 i got the feeling that there is something wrong with my gear.
    Description of Playstyle: Normal "Rotation" CS - J - X - CS - X - J - CS - X - X (X = Filler)

  19. #1659
    Quote Originally Posted by Mauli View Post
    Armory Link: Kyara
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs:
    Worldoflogs Link: LOG
    Questions, concerns, expectations: I take a lot damage more than our other Tank (Blood dk) during boss-fights, his gear is a bit better but it feels like i get twice the dmg from the bosses. I don´t know what it is but since 5.4 i got the feeling that there is something wrong with my gear.
    Description of Playstyle: Normal "Rotation" CS - J - X - CS - X - J - CS - X - X (X = Filler)
    Hes using the tanking meta (as should you) it's probably a 15% damage reduction over the course of a fight.
    I see you bought the tanking cloak :P
    You should really talent unbreakable spirit, 30 second CD on divine protection is huge.
    You should try eternal flame, seems a lot stronger than SS on most encounters now
    Finally, gem haste, not str/whatever. More haste = more SoI heals, faster ticks of SS/EF and more HP generation.

  20. #1660
    Ewww so much pain:
    Never ever gem strength - if the bonus is worth it (none of the ones you picked up are) use Exp/Haste
    Never ever enchant str either (gloves -> haste, bracers -> mastery!).
    And the dps enchants for shoulders/legs/chest are also kind of questionable.
    => You need to realize that tanks don't gain much from Strength since vengeance completely dwarfs it.
    Glyph of Battle Healer, Sacred Shield - like seriously .... try to keep up with the times.
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