[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Deleted]

If you are raiding LFR, it does not really matter what you gear for. Just go for whatever path you enjoy the most.

Yeah I'm totally aware of that but as an ex-(real) raider I still want to perform at my limit

[pld]

Hah! Never realised that non-engineers could use cogwheels! Thanks for that

To be honest, due to the hours I work these days, the VAST majority of my raiding will be through LFR I just don't have the time these days to go back to the world of realm-first heroic kills as much as I miss them. But I still like to take pride in my performance and be the best I can be

Just a quick heads up, if you have an Engineer friend (or can find someone in trade), it's SO much cheaper to just have the cogwheels made opposed to buying them on the AH.

[Chitoh]

Hey all, recently switched from Brewmaster to Pally for our main progression team (US 25 H Sha). I've searched around and I know the proper AE snap threat gain but I still seem to run into problems while picking up the adds that are spawning on Horridon. It's not all mass chaos while I try to gain threat, I just seem to lose or can't out-threat some of the dps. I'm also using HP on myself for some extra AE damage. I'm convinced that it could potentially be my weapon (476 LFR Elegon axe 2/2 upgraded). Here's my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...minadio/simple

Any additional help is much appreciated.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Half of the adds at Horridon ignore aggro/fixate a target.

Nearly all your damage is AP based, you could be tanking with a toothpick and still generate threat. The main problem with tanking adds on that fight is that they do hardly any damage, so you have hardly any AP. Hardly any AP means hardly any threat. Paladins are practically predestined to be on the boss the whole time, you can ShoR for every Triple Puncture, you can bubble off the stacks between phases and your single-target damage on the boss is going to be stellar, probably top 10% of the raid.

[Monolith of Mazes]

Using Seal of Insight can be useful for picking up adds initially. As soon as they spawn they'll be drawn to your healing aggro.

[Zantos]

I have this same problem at times. Only way around it is to get dps to focus your main target, get md and tricks goin on ya. Don't worry too much about damage numbers (if you are). Our aoe damage is low and our threat mostly comes from the healing we do with battle healer glyphed.

[celinamuna]

If you're communicating well enough you can taunt the boss during the cleave attack with his tank taunting back immediately. That way you will get a portion of his threat

[Deleted]

So a bit of background, i re-rolled to prot paladin from DK because of what I think we can all agree are some pretty substantial advantages for 10m heroic raiding. The problem is while I thought I was pretty OK at prot (was my main alt), going through my logs, it is pretty abysmal.

Here is my armory - I would consider my gear good for a fresh re-roll, especially for early TOT heroic bosses.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...londe/advanced

Here are our logs. I've linked our two HC Horridon kills (gained about 1.5k haste since those btw). Last night we spent some time wiping on Torotos with a solo tank strategy. Once we had bat threat under control (no hunters for MDs and the crystal shell just fucks aggro on the first 1-2 waves), i found myself getting completely wrecked. I do think that a key problem was that the bats were alive too long (through a stomp) and so I panicked trying to keep SOTR up for bats but not having it up for the bite which was just the end of me.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5003&e=5668
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...?s=3282&e=3911
Tortos hc wipes: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...pes&boss=67977

In particular, I think my SOTR uptime is often low (high 30-mid 40s), especially if I am in a haste build. Based on firefly's earlier post around WOLs and maximising output, im pretty sure it is my rotation that is not good enough and therefore I am not doing a good job with HoPo generators.

You can also see that when I have HA up, I (sometimes) don't even have SoTR buff for the duration of HA, let alone for 10-20seconds after. So that is just shit.

I do find that I am saying "oh my DPS should be awesome" so often try to get a AS out asap, or HW or Judgement over CS since these abilities seem to hit harder, but I wouldnt be surprised if you tell me that the DPS you can put out with more SoTR+HP generators is very comparable and that the survivability is much higher.


An idea I am toying with is swapping to a mastery build for now, so I am less focused on mashing buttons to try and increase DPS, and focus on my rotation and proper timing of SoTR?

Thanks and please be brutal

[Promdates]

Looks like you're probably just not hitting buttons enough, or you're capping on Holy Power. Looking at the Tortos log, you only gained 67 holy power and used Shield of the Righteous 18 times (WoG once). If you used 3 HoPo on the WoG, that's only 57 holy power used.

[Deleted]

I do find that I am saying "oh my DPS should be awesome" so often try to get a AS out asap, or HW or Judgement over CS since these abilities seem to hit harder, but I wouldnt be surprised if you tell me that the DPS you can put out with more SoTR+HP generators is very comparable and that the survivability is much higher.

Pretty much what you say. You can see some dps benefit by adjusting your rotation, especially during the burn phase, but you will take a serious blow to your HoPo generation so it is rarely worth it unless you know what you are doing / you are off tanking.
On some fights when I glyph final wrath (HW does increased execute damage), I can use if above HoPo generators if I do not need them to survive since it is a significant dps increase. However, a rule of thumb is HoPo generators first, as in the end, the dps difference is not so big.

In tanking, there are several parts you need to master, some are more important than others. If you dps is not as high as it should be, or your SotR time is not as high as it should be, that can be fine. Since if you start focusing to much on fixing those, you can lose focus on the more important stuff. You can look at your tanking jobs as pyramid, with the top one being the most important ones. Only once you mastered the previous 'level' of the pyramid should you start improving the one below.

1. Positioning, keep aggro, pick up adds, don't stand in shit, etc. Executing the boss fight correctly.

2. Timing your CDs and SotR properly. SotR is especially important, using it one every big boss hit. If you feel unsafe about this, you should not waste your energy on max dps, since you surviving is more impotant than dpsing and timing SotRs and CDs is the biggest part here.

You should feel quite comfortable with 1 and 2 before really calling yourself a tank. Since that is basically the main jobs of a tank. Don't die and position boss / adds and keep aggro.

3. Raid CDs. Knowing how to utilize your aura mastery, HoSac, HoSalv, HoP, LoH etc. These can be real raid savers.

4. Maximising SotR uptime and DPS. These kind off goes hand in hand, because maximising both of them requires you to perform your rotation. While these are both important, they are not as important as the previous levels and you should focus on the others first. As Prom mentioned. You shouldn't overcap HoPo. Check if your HoPo gained corresponds with HoPo used.

5. Min-maxing. Do everything even better.

So you should think for yourself, at what level are you currently struggling to tell yourself what you should work on improving.

As you were talking about mastery build. Mastery build is incredibly strong if you at level 2-3, as the benefits of haste does not really kick in until level 4-5, since haste a lot relies on maximizing SotR and DPS. Mastery relies on timing those SotRs well.


Your HoPo generation is not really that bad. It could be better. But not as low as most of the recent WoLs I have seen. I do not have time to go into detail.
But you can pretty much analyse your own logs by following and adapting my methodology from page 16, post 316 in this thread. While it is not perfect, it gives you good intro what to look for. And only yourself can answer where you are on the pyramid as I mentioned earlier in this post. What are you struggling with currently? Instead of trying to improve everything, focus on improving the most important things first, then you will see better results. Maybe you are constantly using J>CS instead of CS>J in rotation therefor resulting in a lower HoPo generation. Well, while you should fix that, if you are also constantly mistiming your SotR with boss hits, and that is a far more important issue and if you focus on J/CS instead, you may lose focus even more on SotRs.

I was sitting on just above 60% SotR uptime on horridon this week, but I am rather sure I did not play perfectly this week as I was not so focused on the farm. So yeah, your 43% is kinda low, but as I explained above, the uptime is not the most important thing, as long as you use those 43% when you actually needs it, it is fine. Ofc there is room for improvement.

I think tanking help is one of thos cases, we can give you guidelines, but the only one that can really help you is you yourself.

[Deleted]

well, first few times posting on mmo, but could i get any tips/ suggestions? as i seem to die a lot more often recently and just want to see if i can improve
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yaxel/advanced

oh and healers are a Monk and two Disc Priests (and no plate wearer but me)

Im expecting a GID to be mentioned around here somewhere

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

If you are dying, you are probably not hitting ShoR at the right moment. Get an enemy swing timer

[Deleted]

Get an enemy swing timer

Is there any addon you could recomend since i seem to be abit off with just looking at annimations

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Is there any addon you could recomend since i seem to be abit off with just looking at annimations

http://www.wowace.com/addons/bossswingtimer/

That one.

[Deleted]

Though swing timers wont really help with boss special ability like Hard Stare, Tripple Puncture, Talon Rake, Decapitate etc etc. Cast times / Debuffs is what to track there. So a boss mod is also very effective. A swing timer is also good ofc.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Though swing timers wont really help with boss special ability like Hard Stare, Tripple Puncture, Talon Rake, Decapitate etc etc. Cast times / Debuffs is what to track there. So a boss mod is also very effective. A swing timer is also good ofc.

On the other hand, such an addon is very valuable for on-next-swing abilities like (Dread) Thrash.

[Deleted]

The main reason i die (looking at recount) is due to magic damage or lack of heals, i do time SoTR correctly, main reason im asking as i always seem to be taking more damage then the Druid off tank

[Promdates]

3/4 of those abilities have a cast bar Firefly, so you can time it right.

[Deleted]

Cheatin' imo

[Dubose]

Hi all...

Somehow, someway, my DPS as Prot has plummeted. I was doing fairly decent until the last Horridon 10n attempts last week which I was barely pulling 35k as add tank. We are using two prot pally tanks in that fight. (Bout the only ones we have available). In any event, Im sure it's rotational my damage being wet noodles. I'm also stuck in between builds. I.E. I had a high stam, high haste build before, but my damage was a bit low. I've swapped some peices around but now I am all out of whack.

Any advice someone could give I would appreciate it. I don't have any recent logs from prot spec, but my armory is
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Dubose/simple

See anything glaring?