1. #741
    Q: I have three trinkets:

    Brutal Talisman of Shado-Pan Assault (522, exp/str)
    Spark of Zandalar (535 HC, haste/str)
    Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun (535 HC, hit/str)

    I need to choose two. Which 2 would be the best,
    if we consider that I would be over the hit cap by ~0.5% in case I use Feather.

    Cba to set up SimCraft for this. ^^"""

    EDIT:

    Meh, I still did it. Spark + Feathers is in theory a small DPS increase over Spark + Brutal.
    Last edited by Wanko; 2013-06-13 at 10:52 PM.

  2. #742
    Spark/Feather is BIS, regardless of the fact that you've got both as heroic.

    Easy question.

    I'm stuck at 1.1% over hit cap til I can get RaDen ring and/or Tier chest, so I know that feel bro.
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  3. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Spark/Feather is BIS, regardless of the fact that you've got both as heroic.

    Easy question.

    I'm stuck at 1.1% over hit cap til I can get RaDen ring and/or Tier chest, so I know that feel bro.
    I just got my FFoJK tonight. SO MUCH HIT I even had to swap to the Iron Qon weapon, and I'm still over by a bit.



  4. #744
    Banned rawhammer's Avatar
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    hmmmm i am rather confused about why there is so much love for the hit (yay!....) /str trinket and people consider it BIS
    it does provide a shit ton of strength at the end of the proc but......it's only strength providing some AP and parry (RNG proc for RNG benefit imo). what am i missing?

  5. #745
    Assistance would be greatly appreciated!

    armoury: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Liabull/simple
    WoL: No logs yet
    Playstyle: I had been control based, with max haste and 7.5/7.5 - this, after using mr robot, has been changed to 7.5/15% which has now dramatically reduced my haste.

    I have been alarmed over the last few days with some of the damage I have been taking whilst tanking bosses in LFR. For example I noticed that on Grand Empress Shek'zeer I took a physical hits of 220k, combined with other damage made me feel very squishy. Overall on all LFRs I feel I am far to spiky.

    I am concerned that perhaps my uptimes on SS and Sotr are low but I feel as if I am keeping them up as best i can, but without the logs I know it would be very hard for you to confirm. However could you take a look at my gear and let me know where my overall floors are and what I may be doing wrong to take such big spikes of damage. Is my haste too low and have I gone too far to get to 7.5%/15% at this level?

    I know some of my gems may be wrong, i.e for sta, but after reading a lot of guides, sta has been recommended as a key sta to help overall survivability.

    Would I see more benefit going for the mastery build over haste?

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    hmmmm i am rather confused about why there is so much love for the hit (yay!....) /str trinket and people consider it BIS
    it does provide a shit ton of strength at the end of the proc but......it's only strength providing some AP and parry (RNG proc for RNG benefit imo). what am i missing?
    It has great uptime (~35%), and it is the highest DPS option.
    Obviously, TDR/Survivability wasn't my primarily concern. In that case I would use a stam trinket.
    Thankfully I'm also saved by the fact, that I use the crafted mastery/haste helm, so I'm not that much over the cap

    It also plays nice with Execution Sentence, on fights where I can use it.
    Last edited by Wanko; 2013-06-14 at 01:39 PM.

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    I just got my FFoJK tonight. SO MUCH HIT I even had to swap to the Iron Qon weapon, and I'm still over by a bit.
    I use the IQ sword anyway, since it's BIS (IMO) for a Human anyhow. But yeah, it sucks wasting points like that. WRU CHEST?!

    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    hmmmm i am rather confused about why there is so much love for the hit (yay!....) /str trinket and people consider it BIS
    it does provide a shit ton of strength at the end of the proc but......it's only strength providing some AP and parry (RNG proc for RNG benefit imo). what am i missing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    It has great uptime (~35%), and it is the highest DPS option.
    Obviously, TDR/Survivability wasn't my primarily concern. In that case I would use a stam trinket.
    Thankfully I'm also saved by the fact, that I use the crafted mastery/haste helm, so I'm not that much over the cap

    It also plays nice with Execution Sentence, on fights where I can use it.
    Basically what Wanko said; with our haste levels it procs A LOT. It's a great stat bank (I get ~700+ haste out of it in addition to the hit), and we need the hit anyway to free up reforges/gemming. It's also a great way to game bigger SS's. When I see it proc, I'll usually sit-tank around halfway through the proc to get big veng, then refresh shield when I have the 10 stacks (~20k extra STR) for a big ol' SS. Same can be done with HPr/ES. If nothing else, it's a fun game.

    It's by far the most DPS from a proc we have available, and using it with Spark gives a ton of non-negligible AP AND parry for free. I get up to ~40-43%+ parry when it's up.

    A stam trinket is still good, but the stam trinket this tier is just so garbage. And the other "accuracy" trinkets have lackluster procs (JiKun's rising winds, lol). You could opt for a mastery trinket, I guess....but why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  8. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    and we need the hit anyway to free up reforges/gemming.
    That is if you actually have the gear for it.
    I'm already sitting at 9% hit without the trinket /:
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  9. #749
    Banned rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Basically what Wanko said; with our haste levels it procs A LOT. It's a great stat bank (I get ~700+ haste out of it in addition to the hit), and we need the hit anyway to free up reforges/gemming. It's also a great way to game bigger SS's. When I see it proc, I'll usually sit-tank around halfway through the proc to get big veng, then refresh shield when I have the 10 stacks (~20k extra STR) for a big ol' SS. Same can be done with HPr/ES. If nothing else, it's a fun game.

    It's by far the most DPS from a proc we have available, and using it with Spark gives a ton of non-negligible AP AND parry for free. I get up to ~40-43%+ parry when it's up.

    A stam trinket is still good, but the stam trinket this tier is just so garbage. And the other "accuracy" trinkets have lackluster procs (JiKun's rising winds, lol). You could opt for a mastery trinket, I guess....but why?
    For farm nights and ranking pov i can definately see that it would be BIS, however for those of us on progression i think even the sucky stam trinket (totally agree the on use is just a fart in the wind) is "BIS". 25man hc-wise anyhoo. 10 man i guess the stamina is not needed.

  10. #750
    Tier shoulders (passable), tier legs, and the LS helm will do that.

    Can you get your hands on Durumu/Horridon pants? And a tier helm (or even Animus or crafted helm)? Those are both far better pieces, without that bolus of hit. I'm sure you know that, and we can't MAKE things drop (/rage @conq chest), but even if you have "ret" legs, it'd be worth giving up the prot 2pc to get [far] better itemized gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    For farm nights and ranking pov i can definately see that it would be BIS, however for those of us on progression i think even the sucky stam trinket (totally agree the on use is just a fart in the wind) is "BIS". 25man hc-wise anyhoo. 10 man i guess the stamina is not needed.
    I'm doing 25H (currently 7/13, putting work into 2 more atm), and I've only used Spark+Valor 522 up until last night. I can't see myself going back to any stamina trinkets for the rest of this tier.

    To throw numbers out there, If I swapped out one of my trinkets for Soul Barrier (522, wasn't lucky to get any other one), I would gain 40,443hp unbuffed (44,487 buffed). If for some reason I'm dying, and I keep seeing Promdates takes XXXXXX damage (38xxx overkill), then I'll swap to a stam trinket. Otherwise, I'm going to try to maximize damage to help push a boss faster. The faster a boss dies, the less damage you take. The best defense, is a good offense



  12. #752
    Banned rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    I'm doing 25H (currently 7/13, putting work into 2 more atm), and I've only used Spark+Valor 522 up until last night. I can't see myself going back to any stamina trinkets for the rest of this tier.

    To throw numbers out there, If I swapped out one of my trinkets for Soul Barrier (522, wasn't lucky to get any other one), I would gain 40,443hp unbuffed (44,487 buffed). If for some reason I'm dying, and I keep seeing Promdates takes XXXXXX damage (38xxx overkill), then I'll swap to a stam trinket. Otherwise, I'm going to try to maximize damage to help push a boss faster. The faster a boss dies, the less damage you take. The best defense, is a good offense

    Hmmmmm. I think at this stage of the tier peoples gear varies wildly, due to progression, raid size, loot drops, what-have-you (my own ilvl jumped ~ 8 points last two weeks due to many lucky drops and coin rolls - we started late this tier with my 10 guild collapsing on a dead server, moving realms, recruiting up to 10, changing to 25 man, recruiting to 25 man - taken quite a few weeks to get back to progression raider again! Hope to smash 5.4 with a decent roster....)

    Anyhoo the jump in gear for the whole raid team is very noticeable, and my health pool has ofc risen significantly with those drops and will have to revisit trinkets again. Still, coming into hc 25 man at mid 520s I do believe a stam trinket would benefit more then a marginal dps increase from the feather.

    Can anyone give an approx. damage % increase that the feather actually brings btw? 1%, 5%?
    Last edited by rawhammer; 2013-06-15 at 07:09 AM.

  13. #753
    Hey all, just recently started playing again(glad to see a lot of you still around) and I haven't really seriously tanked anything since ssc. I have a question about pulling stat weights from simcraft, I am familiar with how to pull them out and plug them into wowreforge, mrrobot or whatever it is you like to use. Anyways, I am getting results that do not really seem to line up with the browsing and reading I have done up on various sites.
    My armory below.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...A4meson/simple
    I have simmed it a few times, at 10k iterations, and seem to keep coming up with this or something very similar.

    Now what from I am understanding, the agreed upon stat weights have you going with Hit > Exp > Haste > Stamina > Mastery. But anyways, the whole idea of simcraft is to be able to put in your own stat weights to reforge/gem based on what your gear is. I have never simmed anything outside of ret and holy so if I am doing something glaringly wrong it would be great it someone could point it out. Appreciate any pointers. Obviously not pushing heroics in this guild or anything but I would like to be doing things correctly, or as close too as I can.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by Jämeson View Post
    Now what from I am understanding, the agreed upon stat weights have you going with Hit > Exp > Haste > Stamina > Mastery. But anyways, the whole idea of simcraft is to be able to put in your own stat weights to reforge/gem based on what your gear is. I have never simmed anything outside of ret and holy so if I am doing something glaringly wrong it would be great it someone could point it out. Appreciate any pointers. Obviously not pushing heroics in this guild or anything but I would like to be doing things correctly, or as close too as I can.
    SimC is still a work in progress at best. Those rankings are just very weird.

    You should probably be going Hit>Exp7.5>Haste>Exp15>Stamina=Mastery if you are 10. If you are 25 you could use stamina flask and 2 stamina trinkets.

    SimC prios stamina a lot, most paladins, especially 10 man tanks, do not want stamina at all. The thesis that stamina is our best stat is a very vacuum oriented thesis.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-06-16 at 04:12 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    SimC is still a work in progress at best. Those rankings are just very weird.

    You should probably be going Hit>Exp7.5>Haste>Exp15>Stamina=Mastery if you are 10. If you are 25 you could use stamina flask and 2 stamina trinkets.

    SimC prios stamina a lot, most paladins, especially 10 man tanks, do not want stamina at all. The thesis that stamina is our best stat is a very vacuum oriented thesis.
    It is the best stat if all you want is pure survivability. If you want AMR or SimC to give you different results, you need to tell them to do so.
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  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    It is the best stat if all you want is pure survivability.
    Arguably. It depends on the fight, saying anything else is just tomatoes.

    As mastery provides a higher effective health, it is far superior on physical damage nukes, which this tier has been so happy about.
    For figths where you are in no risk of getting one-shotted, where your health goes down in a steady rate, haste becomes very attractive as the increased HPS wont be wasted so much.
    If you die on Horridon HC because you misstimed a SotR with direcall + tp combo and gets overkilled for 300k, that should not tell you "I need more stamina!", that should tell you "Hmm, maybe I should hit my frigging spells". If you die because you dont time SotR with the nukes, more haste will allow you for bigger leniency, as you regain HoPo faster and get a higher uptime.

    Like, yes, I get it, I understand that stamina badwagon, good for the people that agrees with it. Yet to say that it is the one and only answer for pure survivability is a giant overstatement. There are some fights where stamina is the best, but most of the time stamina after you reach a point where you feel "Okay, the boss is not gonna one shot me now", becomes completely reduntant and is only there on the premise that you fail, and if you fail, that stamina wont stave you anyway.

    People that are on the stamina bandwagon should however attempt to understand why for a lot of tanks, probably most, it is not the best choice. Of course depending on fight.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  17. #757
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    SimC isn't even saying stamina is the best stat - it's saying it's the worst. The ranking it's giving is the wrong way round for the results, as it's simply ordering by value, rather than absolute value as it should do for DPTS. The values it's giving is for reducing DTPS, so most negative reduces incoming damage the most, and least negative reduces incoming damage the least. So it's actually saying Parry ~= Dodge > Haste ~= Mastery ~= Hit > Exp >> Sta, which was already known if all you're looking at is raw damage taken (which SimC is).
    SimC isn't really that helpful for tank stat weights, because pretty much all it can give you is based on raw damage taken, which is usually not the best thing to base your gearing around.

  18. #758
    Banned rawhammer's Avatar
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    Just wait and see what theck's up to - simc is his next big project, looks interesting.

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    Can anyone give an approx. damage % increase that the feather actually brings btw? 1%, 5%?
    I did some tests for you:
    (Patchwerk fight with ~100k avg vengeance, 5min long fight)

    1) With your current setup
    DPS: 131k
    HPS: 46,6k
    SotR(%): 64.9%

    2) 522 Feather & Dancing Steel Enchant, also forced exp & hit cap:
    DPS: 136,4k ( + 5,4k)
    HPS: 48,2k ( + 1,6k)
    SotR(%): 65.7% ( + 0,8%)

    It is obviously not much of a change, but neither is the lost HP much.

    On the SimC debate: On default settings, ~1/4th is magical damage, which will value haste more. Theck only calculates for physical damage, so you will get different results. Also the SotR buff is applied incorrectly. It won't extend the buff if you cast SotR again, and the buff is still running. This will be fixed in the new release, but the results will still favor haste a bit compared to Thecks results because of the Magical damage.
    Last edited by Wanko; 2013-06-16 at 06:39 PM.

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    It is obviously not much of a change, but neither is the lost HP much.
    That's kind of the point. You give up some hp for a dps increase. Even if the dps increase is minor (1-2%), the loss of hp in those given situations won't kill you.



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