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  1. #1

    What stats to go for as Brewmaster?

    I've been looking at guides all over the place and I have been checking out brewmasters from top guilds and I see different builds.
    Most of the guides seem to suggest that this priority
    Expertise (to 7.5 / 15% (depending)) > Hit (to 7.5%) > Agility > Haste > Crit > Parry > Dodge > Stamina > Mastery
    is the one to go for. As does the brewmaster tanking guide by The Madgod on this forum.
    Yet I see brewmasters that go for full out mastery, others go for expertise hardcap and stamina and some go for a lot of haste with expertise somewhere in between soft and hardcap.

    So, my question is really why there are this many stat builds used by top players, are they using them for specific encounters or do all work equally well?

  2. #2
    To add onto that...stamina seems to be valued pretty low, but that has to be after a certain minimum amount of health.

    What health amount should you aim for before focusing on other stats? 400k? 500k?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Caeth View Post
    To add onto that...stamina seems to be valued pretty low, but that has to be after a certain minimum amount of health.

    What health amount should you aim for before focusing on other stats? 400k? 500k?
    Depends on the content, usually the amount of stamina present on gear is sufficient.
    You just need enough health to survive the worsed case scenario. Gemming for pure stamina is generally frowned upon.
    Stamina is valued low for all tanks because it doesn't mitigate damage. Especially this early into the expansion, mana is limited and mitigation is better.

    In addition, the stat priority is also relevant only to the content you do.
    For Heroic Dungeons, where alot of Trash is present and usually do more damage then actual bosses, going for mastery softens the initial damage from pulling.

    Expertise/Hit > Agi > Haste > Crit > Dodge > Mastery is a priority set for raids, prioritizing like that results in the most efficient damage mitigation over a longer period of time. In Raid content, fights last much longer then your average dungeon.

    The reason why mastery is valued so for low longer fights is because it only alters your Chi consumption.
    Mastery forces you to consume more Chi for Purifying Brew.
    Haste provides more Chi to apply Shuffle - in addition, it vastly increases the reliability of your Chi generation AND significantly improves your damage, while Mastery doesn't.
    Last edited by Powell; 2012-11-08 at 11:06 PM.
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  4. #4
    Expertise/Hit > Agi > Haste > Crit > Dodge > Mastery

  5. #5
    The short answer is that Madgod's stat priority works just fine for the vast majority of content. Use that and love it.

    To answer the query about the other two methods of gearing (expertise hard cap and stam/mastery stacking), they're essentially used for different types of fights.

    The expertise hard cap is primarily for more DPS. More DPS means more Guards from your Ox Statue, meaning you're helping the healers out a lot with raid healing. You'd use this on a fight with heavy raid damage, not so high tank damage (Feng the Accursed, for example).

    The stam/mastery set up is for spikey damage fights, or fights where our avoidance does jackshit to reduce damage intake. It's not ideal and over the course of a fight you'll take more damage than if you go for the avoidance route, but it can be very useful for smoothing out that damage intake, meaning you're easier to heal (thus saving healer mana, and their blood pressures). Examples of this are Heroic Stone Guard (where most of the damage is from a bleed, can't be avoided), or Will of the Emperor (where each individual hit is very high, so bad luck with avoidance can kill you).

    Personally what I do is have a regular set of gear that follows Madgod's stat priority with the expertise soft cap (7.5%), then have a second set of gear that maximises stam/mastery for those fights which need it. Eventually I'll try to get a third set of gear for the expertise hard cap, but that's not as important as the first two sets of gear.

    I hope that clarifies things for you.

  6. #6
    The Patient Zumzar's Avatar
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    Personally, I go for Hit = Exp (7.5%) > Agi > Stamina > Haste > Crit > Mastery. Once my gear gets a bit better, ilvl ~492, I'm going to go for the expertise hard cap, while retaining the same priorities. Getting expertise hard cap will result in higher uptime on mitigation spells and much more raidhealing.
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  7. #7
    Just a reminder that you should never aim for 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise with very limited exceptions.

    You have a 22.5% baseline miss chance consisting of:
    7.5% hit - This consists of 6% hit versus level 92 mobs and a further 1.5% versus raid level mobs
    7.5% expertise versus dodge - This consists of 6% versus 92 mobs and 1.5% versus raid level mobs.
    7.5% expertise versus parry - This is only for frontal attacks and breaks down similarly to dodge.

    The reason I bring this is up is as follows: If you are fighting nothing but 93 mobs and gain a reasonable amount of time whereby you can attack from behind, then the additional hit is better spent there than on expertise.
    If you are fighting a boss with level 92 adds to the point more damage is on them than on the boss when you are not tanking and able to stand behind, you are better off going 6% hit and 9% parry.

    A lot of people seem to make the error in proclaiming 7.5% hit and expertise, but a lot of the time it's better to shoot for 6% hit 12% expertise as a goal.

    As an aside, please explain why our brewmaster is such a squishy mcsquisherton at going squish:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gfuth/advanced

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarella View Post
    As an aside, please explain why our brewmaster is such a squishy mcsquisherton at going squish:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gfuth/advanced
    Can't explain without logs.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzar View Post
    Personally, I go for Hit = Exp (7.5%) > Agi > Stamina > Haste > Crit > Mastery. Once my gear gets a bit better, ilvl ~492, I'm going to go for the expertise hard cap, while retaining the same priorities. Getting expertise hard cap will result in higher uptime on mitigation spells and much more raidhealing.
    Hit and exp have no affect on shuffle or EB uptime. That stat points you put in hit/exp could be thrown into haste and you would gain chi/min. And crit is on single roll system so hit/exp have no affect on EB either.

  10. #10
    "Stamina on gear is sufficient"

    Ok, but what about those times when you have to choose....I got it that you shouldn't Gem for Stamina...but:

    Trinkets...stam trinket? agi trinket?
    Food buff....bring your own agi trinket? stick with stam? (i'm a panda so it's double)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarella View Post
    As an aside, please explain why our brewmaster is such a squishy mcsquisherton at going squish:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gfuth/advanced
    Probably because he's listening to your advice. :s

    The reason I bring this is up is as follows: If you are fighting nothing but 93 mobs and gain a reasonable amount of time whereby you can attack from behind, then the additional hit is better spent there than on expertise.
    And as a tank, when are you going to be behind a boss? Let's look at every boss fight:

    Stone Guard: never behind
    Feng: tank swaps, so can be behind half the time (still 50% where you're in front though)
    Gara'jal: In front of the boss for the majority, or in the spirit realm
    Spirit Kings: in front of the boss all the time
    Elegon: either in front of the boss or on adds, which again, in front of (they're lower level yes, but getting less hit/exp for the adds alone seems... odd, when you're tanking Elegon half the time)
    Will of the Emperor: in front of the vast majority of the time (maybe can get behind while dancing, but that's minimal)

    Vizier: in front of the boss
    Blade lord: in front of the boss half the time, tank swaps so could go behind 50% of the time if you wanted
    Garalon: always in front of the boss, no exceptions

    And I don't have experience with the other bosses so can't comment on those. But come on. The vast majority of fights you're in front of the boss, and tanking the boss (not adds), so doing some weird '6% hit/12% parry' just doesn't make sense.

    7.5% hit negates misses on bosses (the majority of things you tank in a raid). 7.5% expertise negates dodges on bosses, and half of the parry chance (but the other half isn't worth going for). 6% hit means your specials can still miss, and 12% expertise means you've got 4.5% extra expertise that would be better off in other stats.

    Just... why would you even suggest that. Damn.

    To be more constructive, your monk is stacking mastery. Mastery is a terrible stat in the vast majority of situations. He'd be much better off stacking haste, and yes, getting the 7.5% hit and expertise caps.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Caeth View Post
    "Stamina on gear is sufficient"

    Ok, but what about those times when you have to choose....I got it that you shouldn't Gem for Stamina...but:

    Trinkets...stam trinket? agi trinket?
    Food buff....bring your own agi trinket? stick with stam? (i'm a panda so it's double)
    Magic fights? Stam

    Melee fights? Pretend you are a dps. (dps trinkets, agi food)

  13. #13
    "Stamina on gear is sufficient"

    Ok, but what about those times when you have to choose....I got it that you shouldn't Gem for Stamina...but:

    Trinkets...stam trinket? agi trinket?
    Food buff....bring your own agi trinket? stick with stam? (i'm a panda so it's double)
    The answer to "how much stamina do I need?" is "are my healers having trouble keeping me alive through burst attacks?"

    This will change on a boss to boss basis, or which class/player is actually healing you.

    Brewmaster cares about hitting their targets a lot more than other tanks, like DKs, who get the benefits of Death Strike whether or not it actually hits. Exp/Hit is important. The math that supported the 15% exp hard cap was FLAWED, (venyasure himself retracted this stat weight). That's way too much ilvl points to put into expertise, and really all that Hit/Exp is doing really is making your statue better. Really, even capping these stats is probably a bit overkill (it does really help the start of the pull, though, and the statue is actually pretty nice).

    I see more and more Heroic Mode Brewmasters using at least some Mastery. The Haste>Crit>Mastery build depends A LOT on Shuffle, Guard and Elusive Brew. If you are doing this build, you need to not be bad at using your active mitigation. Mastery is not as good for pure damage reduction when you look at it over the whole fight, but what it does do is reduce the burst you take, which is what actually kills tanks.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    7.5% hit negates misses on bosses (the majority of things you tank in a raid). 7.5% expertise negates dodges on bosses, and half of the parry chance (but the other half isn't worth going for). 6% hit means your specials can still miss, and 12% expertise means you've got 4.5% extra expertise that would be better off in other stats.

    Just... why would you even suggest that. Damn.

    To be more constructive, your monk is stacking mastery. Mastery is a terrible stat in the vast majority of situations. He'd be much better off stacking haste, and yes, getting the 7.5% hit and expertise caps.
    Parry does not double dip anymore, that is old information. You don't need even 7.5, those stats would get you more mitigation and survivability by putting those points into haste and crit.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarella View Post

    The reason I bring this is up is as follows: If you are fighting nothing but 93 mobs and gain a reasonable amount of time whereby you can attack from behind, then the additional hit is better spent there than on expertise.
    When the hell would a tank be attacking from behind if they're actually tanking?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by arisoh View Post
    When the hell would a tank be attacking from behind if they're actually tanking?
    Front is the new behind

  17. #17
    The Patient Zumzar's Avatar
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    *edit* Replied in the more relevant thread @ http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ve-to-cap-them *edit*
    Last edited by Zumzar; 2012-11-11 at 10:14 AM.
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  18. #18
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarella View Post
    Just a reminder that you should never aim for 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise with very limited exceptions.

    You have a 22.5% baseline miss chance consisting of:
    7.5% hit - This consists of 6% hit versus level 92 mobs and a further 1.5% versus raid level mobs
    7.5% expertise versus dodge - This consists of 6% versus 92 mobs and 1.5% versus raid level mobs.
    7.5% expertise versus parry - This is only for frontal attacks and breaks down similarly to dodge.

    The reason I bring this is up is as follows: If you are fighting nothing but 93 mobs and gain a reasonable amount of time whereby you can attack from behind, then the additional hit is better spent there than on expertise.
    If you are fighting a boss with level 92 adds to the point more damage is on them than on the boss when you are not tanking and able to stand behind, you are better off going 6% hit and 9% parry.

    A lot of people seem to make the error in proclaiming 7.5% hit and expertise, but a lot of the time it's better to shoot for 6% hit 12% expertise as a goal.

    As an aside, please explain why our brewmaster is such a squishy mcsquisherton at going squish:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gfuth/advanced
    if you can look at your monk and not know why hes getting squished, please refrain from posting any kind of theory crafting in brewmaster threads because what you've said its pretty ridiculous lol.

  19. #19
    We've really been getting Trollish Monk theorycrafters in here lately.

    High Magic Encounter? Use Stamina Trinkets. Need I point you which one to use? For a good start Niuzao is an EXCEPTIONAL tanking trinket.
    Need more DPS as tank? Xuen/Elegon Trinkets do well too.

    NEVER ever put/reforge Hit/Exp on your trinkets due to constant switching which might cause you to dip under.

    The not being in-front of boss as tank comment is like taking a CD POPed, Berserking, Dark Evangelism Mind Blast Crit for 849,331,576 Shadow Damage on Grey Matter. Even 90% Resilience can't save you.

    Haste is always the king stat because on Ox stance itself we benefit more in terms of Energy regeneration from it. Once you hit the Energy cap is where you move towards either more Crit. If you will want to pump more haste you will need to balance it out with Mastery as a form of "self healing" via purifying brew. Which at current gear level is not plausible yet.

    And Also I'm quite certain that having more Haste/Crit (Trinket procs etc seem to increase the tooltip statement of damage required for a Guard to happen) will require one to deal more damage to cause a Raid Guard from Statue. Having high haste/crit with no hit/exp will see that you have difficulty reaching that higher requirement for the stronger shield due to not being able to land your attacks.

    Exp 15% cap was in a way a form of mitigation by providing more consistent Ox guard albeit it being not too major. But thus far I have never seen my 400k Guard on a raid member be fully expended before it's 30 seconds timer ends, well unless he stands on fire. If you are curious, I gem Combat 7.5% Cap > Agi > Haste > Mastery which allows me to switch between BrM and WW effectively.

  20. #20
    what is the energy regen cap?

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