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  1. #41
    The Patient Amanaki's Avatar
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    Okay then... Ap Junglers are going to be more viable.. Always a nice thing with new items similar to wriggles... It is going to be really interesting to see how hard jungle monsters are going to hit :P

  2. #42
    What about katarina jungler then!?!?!?!??!?!

  3. #43
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyrosso View Post
    Malzahar?
    I guess I've lost some posts...how did he bacame a jungler?
    Pet jungler. Not official, but I really want to try it.

    Kat jungle is just no. She brings no CC for ganks and has no reliable sustain since AD Kat is dumb now. I tried it when they did the rework, the new jungle certainly doesn't help her position.

    And I just tried Trundle. Besides the ganking issue that he has in the current jungle, he's a monster for clearing. The increase gold revenue is fantastic as well, since he could really use it to get some nice items. However, he brought light to an important issue. The removal of FoN has left tanks without an overall MR pick. They are all based on your situation now. I don't really like it, but I guess I see the direction they are trying to take.

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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    And I just tried Trundle. Besides the ganking issue that he has in the current jungle, he's a monster for clearing. The increase gold revenue is fantastic as well, since he could really use it to get some nice items. However, he brought light to an important issue. The removal of FoN has left tanks without an overall MR pick. They are all based on your situation now. I don't really like it, but I guess I see the direction they are trying to take.
    Axethor, how does the season 3 jungle compare to the season 1 jungle? What's the gold income like compared to lanes now? Has counter-jungling been a big problem for you?

    Probably wishful thinking on my part and not directed specifically at Axethor, but I'll post it anyways:
    I'm curious about how viable Nasus jungle will be in season 3. I'm cautiously optimistic that my favorite champ may actually be a decent jungler with these changes. His passive gives him some pretty strong sustain and his ganks are pretty good with Wither, but the lack of income from the Season 2 jungle hurt him a lot. I'm hoping that since the jungle is more focused on single target damage now, having to slow his clear time down to farm his Q won't hurt him as much. The increased gold gain from jungling should at least give him the opportunity to reach his amazing late game and items like Frozen Fist sound ridiculous on him.

  5. #45
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    I'll take a stab at this.

    Comparatively, without Hunter's Machete the Season 3 jungle will beat up most junglers. Even with the machete is shits on some junglers. Not at the same level as season one, but the new jungle is definitely strong. Gold wise, on Skarner I felt I could farm all day and not fall behind without a GP5 item. On Trundle, I was clearing so fast I would have been counter-jungling if the enemy team had a jungler (they had two supports, Sona and Nami). Level wise I kept up with the ADC.

    I can see counter-jungling making a huge comeback on champs like Nunu and Cho'Gath.

    Now for Nasus Jungle, I'm thinking he will have the same issue he has top lane, he needs to farm. While he could most likely farm all day and have no issues, you should still have lane presence because their jungler definitely will. Since this takes away from his Q farm, it will take him even longer to hit his late game. So yeah, better off than season 2, but still not good enough that I would consider sticking him in the jungle instead of top lane.

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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    I'll take a stab at this.

    Comparatively, without Hunter's Machete the Season 3 jungle will beat up most junglers. Even with the machete is shits on some junglers. Not at the same level as season one, but the new jungle is definitely strong. Gold wise, on Skarner I felt I could farm all day and not fall behind without a GP5 item. On Trundle, I was clearing so fast I would have been counter-jungling if the enemy team had a jungler (they had two supports, Sona and Nami). Level wise I kept up with the ADC.

    I can see counter-jungling making a huge comeback on champs like Nunu and Cho'Gath.

    Now for Nasus Jungle, I'm thinking he will have the same issue he has top lane, he needs to farm. While he could most likely farm all day and have no issues, you should still have lane presence because their jungler definitely will. Since this takes away from his Q farm, it will take him even longer to hit his late game. So yeah, better off than season 2, but still not good enough that I would consider sticking him in the jungle instead of top lane.
    Yeah, I figured Nasus still wouldn't be a great pick, but I can always dream of the day where he might be. :P

    More on topic, how good are the Spirit Stone upgrades currently? Are they worth rushing, or do you prefer to just sit on the Machete/Spirit Stone for a while? (Sorry I'm asking so many questions, I'm in the process of updating my pbe client and can't test atm)
    Last edited by WinterKnight; 2012-11-16 at 02:40 PM.

  7. #47
    Legendary! Falco Lombardi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    I'll take a stab at this.

    Comparatively, without Hunter's Machete the Season 3 jungle will beat up most junglers. Even with the machete is shits on some junglers. Not at the same level as season one, but the new jungle is definitely strong. Gold wise, on Skarner I felt I could farm all day and not fall behind without a GP5 item. On Trundle, I was clearing so fast I would have been counter-jungling if the enemy team had a jungler (they had two supports, Sona and Nami). Level wise I kept up with the ADC.

    I can see counter-jungling making a huge comeback on champs like Nunu and Cho'Gath.

    Now for Nasus Jungle, I'm thinking he will have the same issue he has top lane, he needs to farm. While he could most likely farm all day and have no issues, you should still have lane presence because their jungler definitely will. Since this takes away from his Q farm, it will take him even longer to hit his late game. So yeah, better off than season 2, but still not good enough that I would consider sticking him in the jungle instead of top lane.
    I think we both know they are going be considered in Season 3 top tier junglers in the number 1-5 spots in tier 1. I can already see them becoming amazing with these new jungle changes, Cho's passive makes clearing trivial and Nunu has great sustain. They also have great ganks, granted Cho's is based off of whether or not you hit his Rupture but Nunu laughs hard when he ganks because it's so easy.

    Just wait, the pro's will be using those two more often than not, Snoopeh always played Cho but more will play him more often. I think I've seen SaintViscious play Nunu jungle a few times and did pretty well. We'll see how it turns out but I'm calling it out right now that they will be more amazing than they are now.
    I'll take the sky any day.

  8. #48
    The Patient Silkku's Avatar
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    Caw Caw motherglockers, Junglesticks is coming back

  9. #49
    I honestly hope that picks like Fiddlesticks or Nasus will not get optimal ever. To be honest none of them are great champions and are pretty flat anyway. Just because there might be some audi/visual appeal on them does not mean that they should be in any serious play.

    My bet is that Karthus is going to be taken seriously again in the jungle, and perhaps more mages, which would be really nice.

  10. #50
    The Patient Silkku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFK-Champion View Post
    I honestly hope that picks like Fiddlesticks or Nasus will not get optimal ever. To be honest none of them are great champions and are pretty flat anyway. Just because there might be some audi/visual appeal on them does not mean that they should be in any serious play.

    My bet is that Karthus is going to be taken seriously again in the jungle, and perhaps more mages, which would be really nice.
    Karthus has never been a serious jungler

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Woot my main jungler will now be a little faster as he is single target. I hope some more of my fave champions will be able to jungle as well.
    Trolling kids like this is why we can't have nice things.

  12. #52
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcDeka View Post
    Yeah, I figured Nasus still wouldn't be a great pick, but I can always dream of the day where he might be. :P

    More on topic, how good are the Spirit Stone upgrades currently? Are they worth rushing, or do you prefer to just sit on the Machete/Spirit Stone for a while? (Sorry I'm asking so many questions, I'm in the process of updating my pbe client and can't test atm)
    When I played Skarner I sat on my spirit stone forever and just built other things. However, this was because the tank spirit stone has tenacity and doesn't stack with merc treads, so I felt dumb upgrading it till I could buy new boots. XP It's certainly not a bad item though.

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  13. #53
    Legendary! Falco Lombardi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silkku View Post
    Karthus has never been a serious jungler
    It's not that but rather he's just so amazing mid. Compared to Fiddlesticks he's not that bad, you should try it.
    I'll take the sky any day.

  14. #54
    The Patient Silkku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duronos View Post
    It's not that but rather he's just so amazing mid. Compared to Fiddlesticks he's not that bad, you should try it.
    Compared to Fid, anything is godlike right now. Fid's only saving grace is the CAWCAWCAWCAWCAW from jungle, Kart's ganks suck since all he really has is the wall for ganking. You will go OOM by using E during early levels and Q spam is too easy to dodge during the ganks

  15. #55
    Legendary! Falco Lombardi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silkku View Post
    Compared to Fid, anything is godlike right now. Fid's only saving grace is the CAWCAWCAWCAWCAW from jungle, Kart's ganks suck since all he really has is the wall for ganking. You will go OOM by using E during early levels and Q spam is too easy to dodge during the ganks
    If you land your wall it's generally going to go down well unless they flash because the slow on that thing lasts forever, plus with an AP top the damage is increased even more.
    I'll take the sky any day.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Silkku View Post
    Caw Caw motherglockers, Junglesticks is coming back
    I'm looking forward to doing this from time to time as well.

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  17. #57
    Also you can have your first ultimate used when unexpected, as it is easy to hide your level in the jungle.
    Currently he can't do that much not only because his very first level is harsh, but also because jungle now favors either support champs or those with retarded base values. And the blue thing is not that huge problem when there are characters that can do without it leaving it for you all the times.

    You're getting quite a lot of things he needs right now - more gold, early build options and more health on main target (Q is massive when doubled).

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by AFK-Champion View Post
    I honestly hope that picks like Fiddlesticks or Nasus will not get optimal ever. To be honest none of them are great champions and are pretty flat anyway. Just because there might be some audi/visual appeal on them does not mean that they should be in any serious play.

    My bet is that Karthus is going to be taken seriously again in the jungle, and perhaps more mages, which would be really nice.
    I have to disagree. While I prefer more complex champions myself, EVERY champion should have a place in competitive play in my book.

    It's just a sad state of affairs that out of what 80 (?) + champions, only about 20-25 ever seem to see competitive play at a time, if ever.

    I just love diversity and would like to see more of it in my Moba of choice.

  19. #59
    I am Murloc! Xanjori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TequilaFlavor View Post
    I have to disagree. While I prefer more complex champions myself, EVERY champion should have a place in competitive play in my book.

    It's just a sad state of affairs that out of what 80 (?) + champions, only about 20-25 ever seem to see competitive play at a time, if ever.

    I just love diversity and would like to see more of it in my Moba of choice.
    Im not sure where you get 20-25, at most small tournaments consisting of perhaps 6 teams we see upwards of 40 champs in use, Id bet there was over 50 champs used at the season 2 finals.
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Im not sure where you get 20-25, at most small tournaments consisting of perhaps 6 teams we see upwards of 40 champs in use, Id bet there was over 50 champs used at the season 2 finals.
    So if theres 10 champions that get picked/banned in 90% of games and 60 that get picked/banned once in a tourney thats diversity?

    My gripe is that you always see the same lane setup. semi carry top, semi carry mid, hard carry+babysitter bot, initiator jungle.
    I hope that with the S3 changes we may see more melee carries, farming supports, mid game teamcomps, pushing comps, ganking comps etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by icylock View Post
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