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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    You're clearly ignorant on the subject and not contributing anything to this thread, so why reply?
    But could you picture how he would sound (hell, he'd probably be moderated) if he said the mirror? Something like "The Democrats are only there to help redistribute wealth to poor minorities", which sounds like the mirror of his absurd statement?

  2. #242
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    But could you picture how he would sound (hell, he'd probably be moderated) if he said the mirror? Something like "The Democrats are only there to help redistribute wealth to poor minorities", which sounds like the mirror of his absurd statement?
    Like you said, it would be an equally misinformed statement, and it would also contribute absolutely nothing to this conversation.

  3. #243
    Herald of the Titans Porimlys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleros View Post
    Racism, sexism, and other white male supremacy ideals are on the rapid decline and the fact that the Republicans hold onto those ideals so tightly and refuse to let go is one of their big downfalls.
    I wouldn't say rapid decline, conservatives are far from letting them go. In fact they're taking on a martyr complex in order to defend them. Even so, there's still a lot of in party racism and sexism that the democrats need to deal with, we can't just blame it all on the republicans because then we'll never look at our own party with the same critical lens.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Well, does land need representation, or do people?

    Here's fun for you:

    Each state gets two senators. Representatives are divied up by population. So Montana has the same number of Senators as New York. Montana has about 5% of the population of New York state. Each Montanan has 20x the representation of a New Yorker. But the Senate skews Democratic.

    A lot of our national policy is chosen by that. Liberal California should probably not be one state (though dividing it would probably produce at least one conservative state). The entire North East, which is all this gaggle of tiny states, shifts that as well. It's a rather strange system for something as important as Senators.
    It's not strange at all. It was set up this way to give each state equal representation. The house has direct population related representation that is updated every so often. The senate has static seats. You can't pass a bill with support in only one. The original goal I believe was to keep one or two big states from being able to control the entire nation, as this was a very real concern at the formation of the US.

  5. #245
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    The GOP needs to drop this silly adherence to primitive mythology. Religion isn't needed anymore. We have moved on past silly superstition and mysticism (well, the modern world has) and realize that it offers nothing but false hope and brainwashing.

    If they would drop this crap, i.e. opposition to evolution, opposition to same-sex marriage, sticking their noses in women's bodies, cramming their own primitive form of morality down peoples throat, etc. and focused on their stances on the economy and promotion of self reliance and reward for hard work they would have a much better chance of being relevant again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    The division between Democrat and Republican cuts very deep. I'm generalizing with that statement, but it's obvious that we (I am a subscriber to what you call a mythology, the Judeo-Christian Bible; that is to what you refer, I assume) likely will never come to an agreement. Kinda scary for both of us, no?

    I felt entitled to respond to your post speaking negatively of religion, with a counterpost, but we should both abstain from delving deep into a discussion about religion, as it is against forum rules.
    You don't believe that evil spirits cause diseases and astronomy is the work of the devil though. Society progresses, institutions adapt. (Religion has been quite often a driving force for progress, but it's just as often the opposite. American fundamentalism is firmly in the camp of opposition.) Democrats, being the liberal party tend to adapt faster (see: Obama's evolving position that gay couples deserve the same rights afforded the majority).

    Some wish it would adapt faster, some slower, but the fact is we don't stone people or burn witches in the modern world. Not even the most ardent Biblical literalist is calling for that degree of adherence to tradition. So, you and Skarssen may never come to see eye to eye on the validity of revealed truth, but odds are that the Republican position will in fact evolve to one that marginalizes social regressivism, it's just not selling. This weird partnership where the GOP is the party of freedom, just so long as you don't want to be free to do something I disapprove of, is unsustainable.
    Last edited by Mnevis; 2012-11-11 at 11:43 AM.

  6. #246
    Honestly before admitting anything the first thing the Republican party has to do is stop believing their own bullshit. It seems to me the whole party (politicians and talkshot host) believe the BS stuff that comes out of their mouth, it kind of reminds me of drugs-dealers that get high of their own product.

    The stuff that is coming out right now is so surprising that I have a hard time believing it. Ronmey and his team honestly believed that 9 out of 10 polls where biased, that he really was going to win, that he could flip flop on a weekly basis (hello era of Youtbube) and that he had a momentum even though he was only winning with the Republican affiliated polls.

    They may have admitted that they where wrong but that something like that isn't enough. The first step should be why they thought that everybody is against them, to me it almost seems like they are a 12 year old kid that thinks the teachers and parents are out to get them.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The idea that they're separate is absolute nonsense. Every single politician that's gained Tea Party support is Republican, there's not a single exception.

    The Tea Party's most relevant member and chair of the Tea Party caucus is Michelle Bachmann. If that's insufficient evidence that movement has an anti-intellectual, anti-government, anti-science bent, then I have no desire to discuss the matter with you.[COLOR="red"]
    You have already shown your ignorance by saying the Tea Party only supports Republicans. It is just that out of the two major parties, only Republicans would be willing to accept the ideals of the Tea Party movement. However, the Tea Party movement is full of independents and people that identify with "third" parties like the Libertarian Party. You have no desire to discuss the matter with me because you have no support, just statements and labels.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 01:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Ok, I'm pretty sympathetic to conservatives at times, but I gotta call you out on some of this.

    The tea-party guys have been saying stuff like "evolution is a lie from hell" and "women's bodies have a way to shut that whole thing down". I think it's fair to call that opposed to science. Honestly believing the second thing has ALL SORTS of ludicrous implications- for instance, it means that you believe that if a woman gets pregnant and has accused her rapist of rape, that she is a false accuser. While false accusation of rape is a big and legit problem assuming that a woman being pregnant makes her a liar is ludicrous and wrong, and VERY hateful. And of course, it's scientifically absurd.

    Is he a strawman? Hell no. Akin is not a straw man. No tea party, no Akin.

    The tea party being seperate from the Republican party is also mostly a lie. Certainly, they have an aspect that is separate, much as, say, the Constitution party is not part of the Republican party. But there are several "tea partiers" in the Republican party, occupying Republican seats, and who are Republican on the ticket. Compared to say, Libertarians- there are some right leaning libertarians in the Republican party, but by and large libertarians are in the Libertarian party.



    It's my hope that the social conservatives lose their traction in the Republican party. The R's have to do SOMETHING to be more palatable, but I'm not sure what that is.
    So who made the quote "evolution is a lie from hell"? What affiliation do they have with the Tea Party? Were they speaking as a Tea Party member? Were they speaking for the Tea Party? Did the Tea Party endorse their statement? As for Akin, you are falling for the media line on this. He made a stupid and wrong statement. He has admitted it was stupid and wrong. He has apologized for it. Once again, was he speaking as a Tea Party member? Was he speaking for the Tea Party? Did the Tea Party endorse his statement?

    You both have got to understand, the Tea Party is a movement about limited government. There are people within it that have all sorts of views, but if they don't have anything to do with limited government, they are not Tea Party views. The Tea Party is not a political party, and their membership includes members from all parties, yes even Democrats. Just because of the two major parties, only Republicans would accept them, doesn't mean they are one in the same. If you are going to accuse me of a lie, you might want to actually prove it.
    Last edited by Jero; 2012-11-11 at 01:25 PM.

  8. #248
    They can't really pander to other demographics without angering the bible belt which makes up the bulk of their voterbase since the Reagan days. If the GOP chose to "modernize" they'd have to start from square one, without the highly active support they've so desperately been clinging on to. They probably don't think it's worth it.

    As time goes on and angry, white christians find themselves increasingly margnialized in American society they're going to get even louder and more desperate. Possibly even resorting to some ugly, violent stuff. It might take something like that for the GOP to distance themselves. But that's just some grim speculation on my part.

  9. #249
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Gecko View Post
    They can't really pander to other demographics without angering the bible belt which makes up the bulk of their voterbase since the Reagan days. If the GOP chose to "modernize" they'd have to start from square one, without the highly active support they've so desperately been clinging on to. They probably don't think it's worth it.

    As time goes on and angry, white christians find themselves increasingly margnialized in American society they're going to get even louder and more desperate. Possibly even resorting to some ugly, violent stuff. It might take something like that for the GOP to distance themselves. But that's just some grim speculation on my part.
    You mean like patrolling polling places brandishing weapons?... oh wait... that already happened, but it wasn't the GOP doing it...

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  10. #250
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Gecko View Post
    They can't really pander to other demographics without angering the bible belt which makes up the bulk of their voterbase since the Reagan days. If the GOP chose to "modernize" they'd have to start from square one, without the highly active support they've so desperately been clinging on to. They probably don't think it's worth it.

    As time goes on and angry, white christians find themselves increasingly margnialized in American society they're going to get even louder and more desperate. Possibly even resorting to some ugly, violent stuff. It might take something like that for the GOP to distance themselves. But that's just some grim speculation on my part.
    That part I never understand, and I am not alone with that.
    The GOP has the bible belt support. Now from there. You don't even have to be a Christian, or active practicing Christian to understand that if you read the bible, then by it's ideologies the GOP should be the socialist driven power.
    Everything the bible teaches, everything God's and Jesus's word stand for is what we call socialist today.
    Fuck.. Even capitalism is something God despises. Remember Sodom and Ghomorra. Remember the worship of the golden calf...
    So how can a strongly believing Christian even support the GOP at all?
    When in reality, the closest political system to the Bible would actually be Communism? Now in plain terms of comparison of the two..

  11. #251
    The GOP/Republicans/Tea Party aren't even fiscally conservative any more. They're fiscally retarded. Their entire platform promotes big business and stifles small business, the very OPPOSITE of Republican stance during America's most prosperous time when we promoted small business, and brought down big business and monopolies. If this were the 20th century I'd be a Republican, but seeing as how the modern democrats are more fiscally responsible and knowledgeable than this new Tea Party stance of exploitation, I more closely associate myself with Democrats.

    Also, lol @ Democrats wanting to take your guns. Only reason I want to have a gun is to protect myself from potential right wing nut jobs who own a gun because they think the EBIL GUBBAMENT IS COMIN FO' DEY GUNS AN DEY SHOOT ANYONE WHO TRY TO TAKE DEM. I can't really trust the mental stability of someone that deluded.
    Last edited by The Batman; 2012-11-11 at 02:09 PM.
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    I'm probably the nicest person on this whole damned forum, and you can make a sig from that.
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  12. #252
    Mechagnome Bad Ashe's Avatar
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    just let the topic die, it was never a discussion, it was a "bash any opinion from the right"

    just read the first half of page 1, any opinion not agreed with is immediately judged incorrect and without facts called infactual both by the OP and by mr. scientist trying as hard as he can to appear to be the smartest cookie in the jar.

    i bring into point my own post #5 which sums this all up, and then in the next 2 posts they clearly stated that their opinions are the only opinions worth having and any other human having thoughts not originating in their heads are wrong, uninformed, and unfactual.

    there's no discussion here, its just immature braggarts ignoring the fact that there ARE as many conservatives as liberals, and their opinions ARE worth having.
    just because you dont agree with someone doesnt make them wrong, or you. just be happy you are allowed to disagree, and count yourself lucky to live in a civilized society.

  13. #253
    Dreadlord Espe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahFrigginBlah View Post
    there ARE as many conservatives as liberals, and their opinions ARE worth having.
    It is this type of moral relativism that astonishes me. It is even more hypocritical coming from conservatives because they are the ones who love to shove their definition of the "truth" as they see it down everybody's throat.

    Did the Democrats make this election about rape and gay rights and women's rights and basic human rights?

    No, the GOP did. They have paid for it; and they will continue to pay for it until they stop the gay / minority / women / elderly / sick / poor bashing in the name of their religions and their "truth."

    I am no Christian but I do believe there is such a thing as right and wrong, and that means the vitriolic and downright anti-scientific / irrational opinions of conservative zealots ARE NOT worth having.

    If you can't handle this topic, please just move right along.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    That part I never understand, and I am not alone with that.
    The GOP has the bible belt support. Now from there. You don't even have to be a Christian, or active practicing Christian to understand that if you read the bible, then by it's ideologies the GOP should be the socialist driven power.
    Everything the bible teaches, everything God's and Jesus's word stand for is what we call socialist today.
    Fuck.. Even capitalism is something God despises. Remember Sodom and Ghomorra. Remember the worship of the golden calf...
    So how can a strongly believing Christian even support the GOP at all?
    When in reality, the closest political system to the Bible would actually be Communism? Now in plain terms of comparison of the two..
    You are trying to apply personal moral lessons to a government system. You can't be charitable by letting the government be charitable for you. Also, connecting capitalism to Sodom and Gomorrah and the golden calf just makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    It is this type of moral relativism that astonishes me. It is even more hypocritical coming from conservatives because they are the ones who love to shove their definition of the "truth" as they see it down everybody's throat.

    Did the Democrats make this election about rape and gay rights and women's rights and basic human rights?

    No, the GOP did. They have paid for it; and they will continue to pay for it until they stop the gay / minority / women / elderly / sick / poor bashing in the name of their religions and their "truth."

    I am no Christian but I do believe there is such a thing as right and wrong, and that means the vitriolic and downright anti-scientific / irrational opinions of conservative zealots ARE NOT worth having.

    If you can't handle this topic, please just move right along.
    Actually the Democrats and their media are the one's who made this election about that.

  15. #255
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jero View Post
    You are trying to apply personal moral lessons to a government system. You can't be charitable by letting the government be charitable for you. Also, connecting capitalism to Sodom and Gomorrah and the golden calf just makes no sense.
    Seeking political lessons in the bible is futile and stupid, given that it is a work of moral didacticism.

    Actually the Democrats and their media are the one's who made this election about that.
    Utter tripe. The media is not "Democrat" or "Republican", it is a corporate entity in the United States.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Seeking political lessons in the bible is futile and stupid, given that it is a work of moral didacticism.



    Utter tripe. The media is not "Democrat" or "Republican", it is a corporate entity in the United States.
    Thanks for making my point on the first one. As for the second, all you have to do is watch the media to know that they lean (and sometimes more than lean) either one way or the other. The media is no longer unbiased.
    Last edited by Jero; 2012-11-11 at 04:00 PM.

  17. #257
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    The situation with the GOP reminds me about our biggest center-right party from 10 years back, they went to election only going on and on about certain policies, had their worst election in ages, sat down, did a 360, got a new young party leader in and became much more moderate, and have now won 2 elections in a row.

    Of course, the GOP might be more hardheaded and stubborn then that party, but if you lose, I think it's fair to say that some adjustments are in order to become more attractive in the future.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 05:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by reikoshea View Post
    The reason that they wont admit it, is they haven't lost (yes, the GOP lost the presidential election), but the majority of the country (by land mass) still votes republican. Go figure.

    The water and sky is blue!

    Honestly though I hope they realize what a useless argument that is
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  18. #258
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jero View Post
    Thanks for making my point on the first one. As for the second, all you have to do is watch the media to know that they lean (and sometimes more than lean) either one way or the other. The media is no longer unbiased.
    I was confirming your first point. As for the second, no; journalists may be biased towards the left wing owing to inherent liberalism in that field, but every news organization in the country is owned by powerful businessment who lean to the right.

    The news in America is biased towards profit. The only outliers are MSNBC and Fox because there is profit to be had in biased news for their viewer base.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  19. #259
    Dreadlord Espe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jero View Post
    Actually the Democrats and their media hurr durr
    Roger Rivard: In response to a rape case where a 14-year-old girl was held down and sexually assaulted in her school band room, Wisconsin State Rep. Roger Rivard told a newspaper that his father once gave him some great advice: "some girls rape easy."

    Allen West: West has been a vocal supporter of such measures as the now-infamous Let Women Die Bill, which would have allowed hospitals to refuse emergency abortion care to women on religious grounds.

    Michele Bachmann: She believes in Personhood, but has made a point of saying that a personhood amendment to the constitution should contain an exception for women undergoing In Vitro Fertilization. But not rape victims.

    Paul Ryan: Referred to rape as a "method of conception."

    Linda McMahon: McMahon said that she believed that hospitals should be required to provide emergency contraception to victims of "emergency rape" only. Whatever that means.

    Richard Mourdock: Said during a debate that he believes that rape pregnancies are a gift from God.

    Tom Smith: Explained how getting raped and becoming pregnant is sort of exactly like being the father of a daughter who has a baby out of wedlock.

    Steve King: Told reporters earlier this year that he's never heard of a woman becoming pregnant as a result of rape or incest, and so rape and incest exceptions to abortion law are silly.

    Joe Walsh: "Outside of the very rare circumstances such as ectopic pregnancies, and other rare health issues, the research is pretty clear that with the advances in modern medicine, an invasive and traumatic procedure like an abortion is not necessary to save the life of a mother."

    Rick Santorum: Supports forcing rape victims to give birth to their rapists' babies. Like Richard Mourdock, has said that rape pregnancies are a gift from God.

    ... and these are just some of the anti-scientific, hateful and downright appalling attacks on women from the right. I haven't even come close to starting on the anti gay / minority / elderly / sick / poor agendas the GOP themselves are constantly pushing.

    I don't see any democrats bringing this kind of nonsense up. I also don't see democrats attempting to legislate their religious beliefs onto other people.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I was confirming your first point. As for the second, no; journalists may be biased towards the left wing owing to inherent liberalism in that field, but every news organization in the country is owned by powerful businessment who lean to the right.

    The news in America is biased towards profit. The only outliers are MSNBC and Fox because there is profit to be had in biased news for their viewer base.
    Can you prove that every news organization is owned by powerful businessmen that lean right? MSNBC and Fox are not the only ones dishing out biased news. They may not all do it 24 hours a day like MSNBC and, to a certain degree, Fox, but they all do it.

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