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  1. #441
    Bloodsail Admiral ranku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Fuck that. Throwing out massive amounts of money and lives for little or no benefit is something he should be taken to task for. I don't give a shit what the military told him, they're a pretty poor source for determining whether more money should be spent on the military.
    not that i really disagree with you but you have to look at it like this, if he was to withdraw, then what? he would have even more amunition for his critics to use against him and he could have arguably gotten LESS done.
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  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by ranku View Post
    ok sorry but i just recently learned who this was in my econ class soooo, what's the problem with him?
    My opinion is not the consensus, so don't take it as a fact, but I'm of the opinion that his monetary policy in the face of the crisis was entirely too weak, as he has essentially ignored the effects of the zero lower bound for interest. I think he's been been of the echo chamber at the Fed for entirely too long at this point and implements timid, suboptimal policies.

    While it's not really a good reason, I'd also just be generally disinclined to reappoint anyone who was at the top of a major financial institution before and during the crisis that didn't scream from the top of the roof that problems were coming.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 07:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    well, like i said, he was stuck in the war. i prefer a CinC actually listen to his advisers on things that he isnt an expert in rather than to unilaterally decide he knows better
    I don't see how he was "stuck". It was a choice. He made the choice. If you think it was an acceptable choice, we simply disagree.

  3. #443
    By adapt, do you mean become democrats? Let's face it, the electorate will vote for whoever promises them the most goodies. This will continue until America falls apart under the weight of its massive debt. It's an empire destroying itself from within and we're watching it happen.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by ranku View Post
    not that i really disagree with you but you have to look at it like this, if he was to withdraw, then what? he would have even more amunition for his critics to use against him and he could have arguably gotten LESS done.
    I think he picked the clearly incorrect policy; if choosing the correct policy results in criticism, so be it. It would have saved hundreds of billions of dollars and hundreds (is it over a thousand?) American lives. I think the idea of trying to pick policies that won't get him criticized is a bad plan; people right of center already call him the "the most far left President ever".

  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stasso View Post
    but it is a theory of evolution
    I'm 23 pages and 3 days late to this one, and also horribly off-topic, but I can't let this remark go unremarked upon.

    A scientific theory is not some just some random nonsense created to explain an observation. That's a hypothesis. A theory is based on a body of facts that have been, time and time again, confirmed to be true through both or either observation and experiment. By confirming the facts as true, the theory is, in turn, strongly supported (one may even go so far as to call it, too, a fact at this point, but it is not. Not really, as facts do not change, whereas a theory is incredibly malleable, depending upon which facts it is based upon.), until a new fact that disagrees with the theory arises, at which point the theory is refined and modified to include this new fact.

    No, it is not just a theory. It is based upon a cacophony of facts, i.e. evidence.

    /end scientific rant
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  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post
    Here's per capita GDP per state, and unemployment by state, but if your starting assumption is that the Obama voter is a 47%er who votes Democrat for stuff and can't be convinced to take responsibility for their lives, it's looking hard to convince you. There are poor Republican voters who vote on issues and against their economic interest and there are well-to-do Democrats who vote to pay the government a little more so kids don't go without food or insurance. It doesn't break down neatly, either way.

    GDP Per Capita by state (not arranged in a pretty format though)

    Unemployment by state (no obvious alignment between voting habits and joblessness)
    And looking at your unemployment link... of the 8 states with the lowest unemployment only 2 of them voted for Obama. While the 4 states with the highest unemployment all voted for Obama.

    and no... I'm not going to draw any conclusions from those facts... just the facts.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 07:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vongimi View Post
    The problem is some stupid republicans say silly things like "evolution is a lie from the pit of hell" and every liberal in the country uses that as ammo against the entire party. Its really silly. If we were going by that standard, then all democrats are complete idiots because that one democrat senator said that we can't put to many troops on Guam because the island would tip over and capsize due to the weight...

    The Republican Party is not in denial about the age of the earth, or evolution. Some crackpots in the party are. They may be holding on to the good ole days of America being a Christian nation, but can you blame them? Of course they want their country driven by strong morals. Its sad that it is no longer. And I love how you named every single topic that liberals use to peg republican's as "anti-science" (despite the fact that science as a whole receives more funding on average under republican administrations than democrat ones), and then added on "a plethora of other science issues", as if there actually was any more.

    I don't think there are any out there, but i'd like to see some statistics on which college degrees voted for which candidates. I hardly consider a liberal arts degree as "educated".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjG958lZ1KI You mean this little bit from House testimony where the democrat rep from Georgia says that Guam is going to tip over and capsize if we put too many troops there?

    You cant be talking about this one because Dems never say stupid stuff, its only the GOP that does it.

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  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    And looking at your unemployment link... of the 8 states with the lowest unemployment only 2 of them voted for Obama. While the 4 states with the highest unemployment all voted for Obama.

    and no... I'm not going to draw any conclusions from those facts... just the facts.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 07:31 PM ----------




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjG958lZ1KI You mean this little bit from House testimony where the democrat rep from Georgia says that Guam is going to tip over and capsize if we put too many troops there?

    You cant be talking about this one because Dems never say stupid stuff, its only the GOP that does it.
    That video is legendary.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    And looking at your unemployment link... of the 8 states with the lowest unemployment only 2 of them voted for Obama. While the 4 states with the highest unemployment all voted for Obama.

    and no... I'm not going to draw any conclusions from those facts... just the facts.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 07:31 PM ----------




    You mean this little bit from House testimony where the democrat rep from Georgia says that Guam is going to tip over and capsize if we put too many troops there?

    You cant be talking about this one because Dems never say stupid stuff, its only the GOP that does it.
    Stupid things that make you laugh are one thing. Stupid and disturbing things like "Women shouldn't have control of their bodies; Gays shouldn't have equal rights; Religion should be taught in schools and enforced in political policy; The world is 10,000 years old and dinosaur bones are a test by the devil!; Critical thinking being taught by colleges creates liberals and is bad!111! is a completely different thing.

    That (only a small bit) list which is far more important and concerning to a lot of us also happens to be pushed upon us by a certain party more often than not, which in 2012 I find that type of ignorance to be quite scary. I guess Einstein's quote on human stupidity is true.

    Abortion, next to gay rights is the best at showing the ignorance of the GOP. George Carlin's clip on abortion on youtube sums up my thoughts quite well.
    The supposed party of life that supports only pro-birth policies. Does the grade A BS spiel factor get any higher?

  9. #449
    Of course there are stupid things said on both sides of the aisle. I think it is kinda hard to argue that republicans have given quite a few more examples than democrats of late. On that same token, anyone who takes those people seriously on either side needs to take a step back. There are crazies all around, but there are also intellectuals as well.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    I can't agree. Abortion is often incredibly damaging from an emotional and psychological standpoint. I'm glad we have it as an option just in case, but I'd much rather a pregnancy be prevented than ended.
    This is a really strange straw argument I see a lot... do people think women getting abortions really love them and just can't wait to get another one? Oh it's Saturday, what shall I do... oh I know, I'll get pregnant and then get an abortion! Sounds like a blast.

    Don't you think the person it's most difficult and traumatic for is the woman actually getting one? I THINK they probably take that decision quite seriously... certainly a lot more than some random person on the internet who has never been through anything like that and likely never will (in part because they probably aren't even the right gender). So maybe we should leave that decision up to them.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 04:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Stasso View Post
    but it is a theory of evolution
    Yeah science has the "theory of evolution", while religious fundamentalists have the "completely made up story of creationism".
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  11. #451
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dd614 View Post
    By adapt, do you mean become democrats? Let's face it, the electorate will vote for whoever promises them the most goodies. This will continue until America falls apart under the weight of its massive debt. It's an empire destroying itself from within and we're watching it happen.
    While I agree with you that America is imploding, it's interesting to note that the massive debt you refer to wouldn't exist if corporations tax payments (in both percentage and absolute terms) hadn't been falling for the last 50+ years...

  12. #452
    The immediate concern for the GOP is to win the 2014 midterms.

    Midterm elections are BASE elections. That means casual voters are much less likely to bother voting when the presidency isn't on the line. Midterms are for hardcore voters. This mean the Republican party MUST move further to the right to get the base out. It worked in 2010 with the tea party. It can work again.

    They also need to win back latinos. They need to accept amnesty for illegal immigrants. They can't win in the long run if latinos transform into a democrat voting bloc. If you could set the issue of illegal immigration aside, however, latinos look more like republicans than democrats. They are very christian, with family values. Its a group that should be in the GOP's corner.

    Does amnesty damage base enthusiasm? I don't know.

    This will be a very interesting two years for the GOP. They are at a crossroads.

    Sean Hannity and Charles Krauthammer, both republican pundits, now openly support amnesty for illegal immigrants. Rush Limbaugh is against it. So there could be some in-fighting.
    Last edited by Grummgug; 2012-11-15 at 01:45 AM.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandcheer View Post
    Of course there are stupid things said on both sides of the aisle. I think it is kinda hard to argue that republicans have given quite a few more examples than democrats of late. On that same token, anyone who takes those people seriously on either side needs to take a step back. There are crazies all around, but there are also intellectuals as well.
    The difference is that the Republicans give their crazies major platforms.

    I don't think you could find more than a very tiny handful of genuine intellectuals on the modern American right.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    While I agree with you that America is imploding, it's interesting to note that the massive debt you refer to wouldn't exist if corporations tax payments (in both percentage and absolute terms) hadn't been falling for the last 50+ years...
    Most of this happened in the 80's. Tax rates went from 80% to 30%, and since they've been dropped and raised tiny amounts.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The difference is that the Republicans give their crazies major platforms.

    I don't think you could find more than a very tiny handful of genuine intellectuals on the modern American right.
    You could get a world of debate on the idea that leaders need to be intellectuals. Leadership is a skill. It is not a requirement to be an intellectual to be a great leader. LBJ was no intellectual. Neither was Reagan. Bill Clinton is no intellectual. He has a near photographic memory, which can give that appearance, but he's, well, Bubba. Jimmy Carter was an intellectual, but had terrible leadership skills. Politics is about finding leaders to take the reins of government.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    The immediate concern for the GOP is to win the 2014 midterms.

    Midterm elections are BASE elections. That means casual voters are much less likely to bother voting when the presidency isn't on the line. Midterms are for hardcore voters. This mean the Republican party MUST move further to the right to get the base out. It worked in 2010 with the tea party. It can work again.
    the thing is, the tone they take in 2014 could really help or fuck them over in 2016. if people see more of the same craziness in 2014 they might feel that the GOP is being dishonest if they change their tune in 2016. and some of the ones that appeal to the base in respective areas cant seem to keep their mouths shut, which really hurt romney this go around. if the GOP cant reign in some of these guys they can expect more of the same results in the future on the national stage

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeones View Post
    Most of this happened in the 80's. Tax rates went from 80% to 30%, and since they've been dropped and raised tiny amounts.
    Corporate tax rates are largely beholden to the global marketplace in modern times. No country wants to hike corporate tax rates and drive businesses overseas. As telecommuniciation and travel improve, it gets more and more difficult to tax corporations, because it gets ever easier for them to move. Corporate tax rates should fall in the long term.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    You could get a world of debate on the idea that leaders need to be intellectuals. Leadership is a skill. It is not a requirement to be an intellectual to be a great leader. LBJ was no intellectual. Neither was Reagan. Bill Clinton is no intellectual. He has a near photographic memory, which can give that appearance, but he's, well, Bubba. Jimmy Carter was an intellectual, but had terrible leadership skills. Politics is about finding leaders to take the reins of government.
    Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar. Reagan was an anti-intellectual dolt, and it showed.

  19. #459
    Immortal SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    The immediate concern for the GOP is to win the 2014 midterms.

    Midterm elections are BASE elections. That means casual voters are much less likely to bother voting when the presidency isn't on the line. Midterms are for hardcore voters. This mean the Republican party MUST move further to the right to get the base out. It worked in 2010 with the tea party. It can work again.

    They also need to win back latinos. They need to accept amnesty for illegal immigrants. They can't win in the long run if latinos transform into a democrat voting bloc. If you could set the issue of illegal immigration aside, however, latinos look more like republicans than democrats. They are very christian, with family values. Its a group that should be in the GOP's corner.

    Does amnesty damage base enthusiasm? I don't know.

    This will be a very interesting two years for the GOP. They are at a crossroads.

    Sean Hannity and Charles Krauthammer, both republican pundits, now openly support amnesty for illegal immigrants. Rush Limbaugh is against it. So there could be some in-fighting.
    While I think its critical for the republican party to, in Jindal's words, "stop being the stupid party." I think they are going to have a very rough time in 2014. Obama's organization demonstrated a very impressive "ground game," and without worrying about a presidential election? Their get out the vote campaign could swamp the average "third" turnouts in 2014. Sweeping aside the normally more influential evangelical and tea party style political minorities during dryer elections. I agree though that it will be very interesting to watch and their first test, the "fiscal cliff," is coming up fast.
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  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    the thing is, the tone they take in 2014 could really help or fuck them over in 2016. if people see more of the same craziness in 2014 they might feel that the GOP is being dishonest if they change their tune in 2016. and some of the ones that appeal to the base in respective areas cant seem to keep their mouths shut, which really hurt romney this go around. if the GOP cant reign in some of these guys they can expect more of the same results in the future on the national stage
    One possible outcome is that the GOP will keep winning midterm landslides, and then get beat in the general election. That could mean congress stays in republican hands, while the white house and supreme court are held by the democrats.

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