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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    the thing is, the tone they take in 2014 could really help or fuck them over in 2016. if people see more of the same craziness in 2014 they might feel that the GOP is being dishonest if they change their tune in 2016. and some of the ones that appeal to the base in respective areas cant seem to keep their mouths shut, which really hurt romney this go around. if the GOP cant reign in some of these guys they can expect more of the same results in the future on the national stage
    One possible outcome is that the GOP will keep winning midterm landslides, and then get beat in the general election. That could mean congress stays in republican hands, while the white house and supreme court are held by the democrats.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    You could get a world of debate on the idea that leaders need to be intellectuals. Leadership is a skill. It is not a requirement to be an intellectual to be a great leader. LBJ was no intellectual. Neither was Reagan. Bill Clinton is no intellectual. He has a near photographic memory, which can give that appearance, but he's, well, Bubba. Jimmy Carter was an intellectual, but had terrible leadership skills. Politics is about finding leaders to take the reins of government.
    very good point. i do like your assessment of clinton, but i do think he is a bit more... canny than you give him credit for, although that really isnt the same as being intellectual.

    glad to see you didnt vilify carter... not a great leader, true, but he is imo a true asset to this country and the world. he has a great heart, and is tireless in trying to better the world (whether you agree with his ideals or not)

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar. Reagan was an anti-intellectual dolt, and it showed.
    Clinton was famous for being a total slacker in college. He'd party for weeks than cram for tests and get straight As with that photographic memory of his. An intellectual, he is not because he has no passion for learning. He has a rare skill that allows him to recall large amounts of information verbatim. It makes it very easy for him to be a devastating public speaker. But again, he is no intellectual.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Clinton was famous for being a total slacker in college. He'd party for weeks than cram for tests and get straight As with that photographic memory of his. An intellectual, he is not because he has no passion for learning. He has a rare skill that allows him to recall large amounts of information verbatim. It makes it very easy for him to be a devastating public speaker. But again, he is no intellectual.
    Apparently your definition of intellectual is quite different than mine. I'd consider a Rhodes scholar with a broad range of interests and incredible capacity to learn and store information, then communicate it to others to be an intellectual, even if someone said he didn't work hard in college.

  5. #465
    The entire Bill and Hillary marriage is one big power trip. Bill has rare skills. But he's not the brains of the operation. Hillary was always the mastermind. She plans everything out and guides him along, with the goal of both reaching the peak together.

    Obamacare was put together by democrats in congress. Obama was just the salesman. But health care reform in 1993 was put together by Hillary herself. They spent tons of time locked away in the White House puzzling it out. It wasn't congress working on that.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    No, there are not.
    Yes, there are. In fact, there are over twice as many conservatives than there are liberals in America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    No, they are not. For example, the opinion that women can't get pregnant when they're raped is not just as valid as my thoughts on the matter. The belief that evolution is a "lie from the pit of hell" is not just as valid as my thoughts. The idea that all opinions are equally valid is nonsense.
    One guy (Todd Akin) said that and he was immediately asked to step down by Republican voters, Republican politicians, and party leaders. The guy is an idiot, he would still be better than McCaskill, but that doesn't mean he was fit for office.

    I'm from Missouri, the state Todd Akin was running in. Let me tell you this, we were going to win that senate seat if it weren't for that one remark. Every single one of McCaskill's Republican challengers (in the primaries) had a 10+ point lead on her in the polls, the guy could have gone into a coma and we still would have won that seat.
    Last edited by Nakura Chambers; 2012-11-15 at 02:09 AM.

  7. #467
    Yah, you can't seriously pin the Akin comments on the entire GOP. That isn't a way to generate constructive discussion.

  8. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukki View Post
    Well, that completely makes the NDAA okay! Sorry Barry, you can assassinate/detain me without trial now because liberal college grads voted for you along party lines!
    Incorrect. CNN exit polls show the vast majority of college graduates vote Republican; whereas the vast majority of high school drop-outs vote Democrat.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    Incorrect. CNN exit polls show the vast majority of college graduates vote Republican; whereas the vast majority of high school drop-outs vote Democrat.
    citation please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    glad to see you didnt vilify carter
    I still think his Malaise Speech could have been the start of something new. Just ended up being another missed opportunity.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    citation please.
    Hehe... Like there could be one for that.

  11. #471
    You said Republicans vs. Democrats, not liberals vs. conservatives. There was a much larger share of the electorate that self identified as Democrat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    One guy (Todd Akin) said that and he was immediately asked to step down by Republican voters, Republican politicians, and party leaders. The guy is an idiot, he would still be better than McCaskill, but that doesn't mean he was fit for office.
    Yeah, it actually fucking does mean he wasn't fit for office. Believing shit that absolutely inane should be sufficient to disqualify someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    I'm from Missouri, the state Todd Akin was running in. Let me tell you this, we were going to win that senate seat if it weren't for that one remark. Every single one of McCaskill's Republican challengers (in the primaries) had a 10+ point lead on her in the polls, the guy could have gone into a coma and we still would have won that seat.
    Yeah, I know you would have won the seat were it not for that remark. I have no idea what you're driving at. I wish more Republicans would join the Rape Caucus openly and get their asses voted out of office.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 09:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Yah, you can't seriously pin the Akin comments on the entire GOP. That isn't a way to generate constructive discussion.
    I can, however, pin rejection of evolution and climate change on the GOP.

  12. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    citation please.
    http://edition.cnn.com/election/2012...e/MO/president

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    You said Republicans vs. Democrats, not liberals vs. conservatives. There was a much larger share of the electorate that self identified as Democrat.
    The pollsters admitted that they were oversampling Democrats. They tried to justify it by saying that they were trying to recapture the 2008 voter turnout, in which more Democrats voted than Republicans.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Yeah, it actually fucking does mean he wasn't fit for office. Believing shit that absolutely inane should be sufficient to disqualify someone.
    I think you misread my statement. I said that just because he was the lesser of two evils, doesn't mean that he was qualified. In other words, he definitely wasn't fit for office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Yeah, I know you would have won the seat were it not for that remark. I have no idea what you're driving at. I wish more Republicans would join the Rape Caucus openly and get their asses voted out of office.
    How liberally "tolerant" of you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I can, however, pin rejection of evolution and climate change on the GOP.
    Not really. Evolution versus creationism is a religious issue, not a political one. It's not that we don't believe in climate change, it's that we don't think there is anything viable the government can do to stop it. Even if there is a viable way to reverse climate change, we need to be careful not to sacrifice our principles and our freedoms in the name of combating it (like what happened with the War on Terror). History is rife with people using things like this as a means to power.

  13. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    This link is more useful: http://edition.cnn.com/election/2012...race/president

    That is interesting how both some college and postgraduate favor democrats while only college favors republican. I wonder what they forget after college that they remember if they continue their education?

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post

    I can, however, pin rejection of evolution and climate change on the GOP.
    I don't think anyone rejects the idea of climate change. We have clear evidence the climate changes over time. The debate over man-made climate change is an interesting one. I'm old enough to remember scientists claiming all the oceans would be dead by the year 2000 due to man made climate change. They stated their beliefs back then just as confidently as they state their current ones now.

  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    I don't think anyone rejects the idea of climate change. We have clear evidence the climate changes over time. The debate over man-made climate change is an interesting one. I'm old enough to remember scientists claiming all the oceans would be dead by the year 2000 due to man made climate change. They stated their beliefs back then just as confidently as they state their current ones now.
    Ted Danson said the climate change would destroy the Earth by 1998, he was wrong. Al Gore said the same thing, but extended it 2016.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    The debate over man-made climate change is an interesting one.
    No, it's not. It's not even a real debate, it's climate scientists on one side and people that don't know shit about climate science on the other side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    I'm old enough to remember scientists claiming all the oceans would be dead by the year 2000 due to man made climate change.
    No, you're not. That didn't happen.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 09:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    How liberally "tolerant" of you.
    I have never, ever claimed to be tolerant of stupidity or evil. I regard Akin as either stupid or evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    Not really. Evolution versus creationism is a religious issue, not a political one.
    Get that shit out of classrooms then. One is science, the other isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    It's not that we don't believe in climate change, it's that we don't think there is anything viable the government can do to stop it.
    It's kind of amusing to see what version of denialism is the flavor of the day.

  17. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    How does it not fairly discredit the GOP? These are states where conservatives have held power for years, often times with little to no opposition. If their ideology is superior then why do the states they control rely on liberal bastions?
    Population density.
    I don't argue to be right, I argue to be proven wrong. Because I'm aware that the collective intelligence of the community likely has more to offer to me by enlightening me, than I do to an individual by "winning" an argument with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    I don't always wear tennis shoes, but when I do, I speak Russian. In French.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    It's not that we don't believe in climate change, it's that we don't think there is anything viable the government can do to stop it.
    You goto be joking? Just shows how little "you" people know of it. It is not about stopping cos that train passed a long time ago.
    It is about slowing it down and reverse it and give the planet time to recuperate.
    Since you are not able to stop it in a week, fuck it, business as usual amarite?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    No, it's not. It's not even a real debate, it's climate scientists on one side and people that don't know shit about climate science on the other side.
    Swazi you just made this remark painfully true in at least your own case.
    Last edited by Bakis; 2012-11-15 at 02:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Except there was no Russian Invasion into Crimea.
    Not like Putin acknowledged it on national tv..

  20. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    It's kind of amusing to see what version of denialism is the flavor of the day.
    You can build as many windmills as you want, but it still won't be a viable energy source, plus they are causing the extinction of wildlife (namely birds).

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