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  1. #661
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleros View Post
    Origanilism is the reason why everyone thinks the second amendment is "the right to bear arms" with the implied any idiot can purchase a gun, where the actual text indicates a well regulated militia has the right to bear arms, which random idiots are not.
    How many times does this liberal claim have to be proven wrong, before you stop trying to use it? "We have electricity now so we should just make up random definitions for legal terms that have long-standing meanings dating back to at least 1689."

    I'm going to post this video in the thread, again:

  2. #662
    I don't need Penn and Teller to tell me what words mean.

    Read the fucking thing for yourself. It's right there on the initial image:

    A well regulated militia,

    Being necessary to the security of a free state,

    The right of the people to keep and bear arms,

    Shall not be infringed.

    Funky ass comma placement, but I can only read that one way. I have never seen a proper defense for a liberal (LOL, see what I did there?) interpretation of the 2nd. Even my least favorite SCOTUS justice agrees with me, or at least admits there is wiggle room for us to agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    If anybody is thinking of buying me a gift I would much rather they just donate that money to charity instead.
    chicken kiev

  3. #663
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    Every single reference to the right to bear arms, in the history of mankind, has referred to it as an individual right. The Founders themselves viewed it as an individual right, as did all of the classical liberal philosophers before them. The first legal reference to the right to bear arms was in 17th century England, and it referred strictly to an individual right. The US Constitution refers to it as an individual right. Every state constitution refers to it as an individual right. And every foreign constitution that has ever included the right to bear arms, has also referred to it as an individual right.

    This "it only means the military can own guns" is completely unfounded and not based in facts.

  4. #664
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    I have never seen a proper defense for a liberal (LOL, see what I did there?) interpretation of the 2nd.
    The 2nd Militia act of 1792, passed by the 2nd congress during the Washington presidency, does provide support for their claim. It requires that every "free able-bodied white male citizen" between the ages of 18 and 45 own a rifle or musket, appropriate ammunition, and other associated paraphernalia and also that they report for militia training semi-annually.
    Last edited by Masark; 2012-11-16 at 06:02 PM.

  5. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    The 2nd Militia act of 1792, passed by the 2nd congress during the Washington presidency, does provide support for their claim. It requires that every "free able-bodied white male citizen" between the ages of 18 and 45 own a rifle or musket, appropriate ammunition, and other associated paraphernalia and also that they report for militia training semi-annually.
    oh you mean that those people were regulated and required appropriate training?

  6. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    Every single reference to the right to bear arms, in the history of mankind, has referred to it as an individual right.
    Stop lying. Seriously, I already disproved your extremely erroneous claim that all of the founders felt this way about it, and your theory about some sort of unanimous legal interpretation has been thoroughly debunked. Go back through the thread if its already slipped your mind.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  7. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Just want to throw this out there:

    Im trying to figure out how significant this is. I never went to college. i served my country in the military, got out and got a very good job designing, installing, and maintaining radio systems at US embassies and consulates which can, and have assisted in the protection of American life and property...all without a college degree, and i make more money than most people i went to school with, some of whom still live at home with their degree.

    Quite frankly most technical companies will take someone with real life experience (i.e. military or similar) before they take someone with a degree that basically only shows they read and wrote reports.

  8. #668
    Legendary! darenyon's Avatar
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    Im trying to figure out how significant this is. I never went to college. i served my country in the military, got out and got a very good job designing, installing, and maintaining radio systems at US embassies and consulates which can, and have assisted in the protection of American life and property...all without a college degree, and i make more money than most people i went to school with, some of whom still live at home with their degree.

    Quite frankly most technical companies will take someone with real life experience (i.e. military or similar) before they take someone with a degree that basically only shows they read and wrote reports.
    cause education involves things like critical thinking, communication, logic, etc. its certainly possible to do well in the world without those things, of course.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    Quite frankly most technical companies will take someone with real life experience (i.e. military or similar) before they take someone with a degree that basically only shows they read and wrote reports.
    Your military experience means nothing except that it shows you put in the work. That's also what a college degree shows. Mileage will vary depending on the kind of job you're trying to get.

    (I'm not disrespecting the work you did for the US at all, I respect it a lot. I'm just saying in terms of employment that's what it is).
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    If anybody is thinking of buying me a gift I would much rather they just donate that money to charity instead.
    chicken kiev

  10. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    Im trying to figure out how significant this is. I never went to college. i served my country in the military, got out and got a very good job designing, installing, and maintaining radio systems at US embassies and consulates which can, and have assisted in the protection of American life and property...all without a college degree, and i make more money than most people i went to school with, some of whom still live at home with their degree.

    Quite frankly most technical companies will take someone with real life experience (i.e. military or similar) before they take someone with a degree that basically only shows they read and wrote reports.
    The reason veterans are so highly desired, beyond a general desire to give back to the people that served (thanks for your service, by the way!), is because every employer knows that discipline and responsibility are concepts that are basically hammered into you with a shovel as part of military service, and both of those concepts are extremely desirable in a potential new hire. If your MOS also meant that you have years of practical experience in the field... well, that's even better!
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    MMOC IRC!

  11. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Stop lying. Seriously, I already disproved your extremely erroneous claim that all of the founders felt this way about it, and your theory about some sort of unanimous legal interpretation has been thoroughly debunked. Go back through the thread if its already slipped your mind.
    Founding Fathers on the Second Amendment:
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." -Thomas Jefferson

    "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. " -Thomas Jefferson

    "We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed" -Thomas Jefferson

    "No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

    "To model our political system upon speculations of lasting tranquility, is to calculate on the weaker springs of the human character." -Alexander Hamilton

    "The advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -James Madison

    "To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws." -John Adams

    "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. " -Noah Webster

    "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." -Tench Coxe

    "Shall be too firmly fixed in the saddle to be overthrown by anything but a general insurrection. If raised, whether they could subdue a nation of freemen, who know how to prize liberty, and who have arms in their hands?" -William Symmes

    "Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it. " -Richard Henry Lee

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. " -Patrick Henry

    "O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if, to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people! Your arms, wherewith you could defend yourselves, are gone...Did you ever read of any revolution in a nation...inflicted by those who had no power at all?" -Patrick Henry

    "When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor..." -George Mason

    "The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." -Zacharai Johnson

    "The whole of that Bill of Rights is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals...It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of. " -Albert Gallatin

    "Conceived it to be the privilege of every citizen, and one of his most essential rights, to bear arms, and to resist every attack upon his liberty or property, by whomsoever made. The particular states, like private citizens, have a right to be armed, and to defend, by force of arms, their rights, when invaded." -Roger Sherman

  12. #672
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    The reason veterans are so highly desired, beyond a general desire to give back to the people that served (thanks for your service, by the way!), is because every employer knows that discipline and responsibility are concepts that are basically hammered into you with a shovel as part of military service, and both of those concepts are extremely desirable in a potential new hire. If your MOS also meant that you have years of practical experience in the field... well, that's even better!
    "Highly desired"? That would certainly explain why the employment rate for Gulf War 2 veterans sits at 12%.

  13. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    "Highly desired"? That would certainly explain why the employment rate for Gulf War 2 veterans sits at 12%.
    Some companies do prefer to hire veterans. One of the reasons my uncle's employer was so interested in hiring him is because he is a veteran.

  14. #674
    Legendary! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    snip
    why is it they keep throwing in that militia word? almost makes you think they meant a "well regulated militia" instead of "every bubba, joe, and psychopath."

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    The reason veterans are so highly desired, beyond a general desire to give back to the people that served (thanks for your service, by the way!), is because every employer knows that discipline and responsibility are concepts that are basically hammered into you with a shovel as part of military service, and both of those concepts are extremely desirable in a potential new hire. If your MOS also meant that you have years of practical experience in the field... well, that's even better!
    I see no evidence that veterans are highly desired or highly competent in general job skills.

  16. #676
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    Some companies do prefer to hire veterans. One of the reasons my uncle's employer was so interested in hiring him is because he is a veteran.
    I don't deny there are some who do prefer to hire, but in the general sense, veterans are unemployed at a substantially higher rate than the general population, which suggests that "some" is not very common.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    I don't deny there are some who do prefer to hire, but in the general sense, veterans are unemployed at a substantially higher rate than the general population, which suggests that "some" is not very common.
    I wonder how much of that is due to the potential for being called back up and/or the risk of PTSD
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  18. #678
    Not to discount our veterans, but they are given preference because they are more likely to be loyal to the company (as they were to their country). That's pretty much it.

    And of the veterans who are unemployed, the majority of that sect were either drafted or joined the military because they had no other outlet. If you're drafted, you're essentially going into infantry. If you're joining the military because you couldn't get a job doing anything else, you're going into the infantry. In either situation, you don't usually acquire any skills that are valuable outside of general labor.

    I'd like to see that graph amended to show the amount of people over 25 that still live with their parents or other relative.
    Last edited by jmt; 2012-11-18 at 12:42 AM.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by jmt View Post
    Not to discount our veterans, but they are given preference because they are more likely to be loyal to the company (as they were to their country). That's pretty much it.

    I'd like to see that graph amended to show the amount of people over 25 that still live with their parents or other relative.
    They're also given substantial bonus points in applications for federal jobs.

    Given that both private and government sources give "bonus credit" for being a veteran, it doesn't speak well of general competence that their unemployment rate is quite high.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    They're also given substantial bonus points in applications for federal jobs.

    Given that both private and government sources give "bonus credit" for being a veteran, it doesn't speak well of general competence that their unemployment rate is quite high.
    See my edit. I agree.

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