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  1. #721
    Herald of the Titans
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    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/n...-election.html

    I know it's Yahoo but bear with it.

    When Newt Gingrich says you're an idiot... yeah, you pretty much are one.

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    didnt they kind of shake things up because of it?
    That was after Kerry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakia View Post
    I'm just wondering. Do people forget how much the political pundits on both sides were saying that the Gore loss to GWB was the death of the Dem party?
    I don't remember the Dems spending 4 years reviling Bush prior to 2000 and doing everything they could to stop him at every turn. That's what's startling about this election, that despite the GOP's best efforts they couldn't even get particularly close to removing Obama.
    It's just like every election is the most important one in a generation/lifetime/history of US.
    Well given the number of Supreme Court justices who are due to retire soon this election actually will have some pretty long reaching consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    Anti-racism protests are racist against whites.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    I am The Riddler. I never 'make stuff up'.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    You may not realize this but, Obama did not win in a landslide. He won a very close election. 3.8 million votes separated the two, well below the 9.5 million vote margin of Obama's win 4 years prior. Obama lost two states he carried in 2008. He has no mandate. The GOP retained the House.
    A prime example of some one being blind to the facts.

    Obama won. He got a lower vote than in 2008, but he won. He won over 300 EC votes.

    He was a president who ran on an unemployment rate of over 8% for 40+ months, who presided over a sluggish economy....and he still won.

    And the popular vote, sad to say, is essentially meaningless. The parties base their campaigns on the EC system. Not the popular vote.

    But let's not kid ourselves and think the democrats came away with a huge win.
    They won the Presidency.
    They secured their hold on the Senate.
    Obama won the popular vote
    And the Democrats even appear to have picked up some seats in the House. Not totally un-noteworthy given how gerrymandered that body is.

    That looks like a fairly substantial win to me. And if he lost two states, the big fact the Republians can't ignore is the increasing Democratisation of traditional Republican states.

    The Republicans, conversely, have campaigned on a set of policies that while attractive to white, middle aged males alienates just about every other demographic in the country. Even if they HAD won, few of their policies would have lasted long. In a way, the Republicans losing is good for them...because it gives them a chance to reflect and try to engage with the modern world instead of enacting policies that would drive them out of power for a generation.

    Republicans have a long history and much to be proud of. But their drift to the extreme right has hurt them, and it has hurt their credibility. The electorate is not naive enough to think Romneys uncosted plans based on wishful thinking are going to help the nation. They electorate are smart enough to realise Romneys plans didn't work too well when Bush enacted them. The electorate is smart enough to recognise that Romneys foreign policy essentially mirrored Obamas.

    Obama may not be better in many regards, but he at least is a known quantity this time around. But the Republicans need to realise that they live in the world that is, not the world as they wish it to be. European style austerity measures may be the Holy grail to the Tea Party, but can the nation really afford the 2% hit to growth such policies have caused Europe?

    Will the Republicans win in 2016? It is possible. But they have a long road to convince those who voted Democrat this time that the GOP are a party vote voting for. If they continue to treat the elctorate like dirt, they're going to lose again. Heck...if the trends contine, it won't be that long before TEXAS is democratic.

    Obama did not win because of Sandy or Christie
    Obama did not win because of a media conspiracy
    Obama did not win because of voter suppression or electral fraud.

    Obama won because he ran a better campaign against a weak opponent who wasn't fully supported or embraced by his party.
    He won because the policies he is following, the policies he said he would follow, are more in tune with what the electorate want
    He won because the electorate still blames Republicans for the economic mess the nation is in and for the obstructionism that cost the nation so dearly in recent years.
    He won because the policies Romney and the GOP espoused scares many voters away from a party they have much in common with.

    Until the GOP recognise this, until they realise that their dreams of immigration control are essentially dead, that their economic plans turn off more people than they attract, that their foreign, defence and security policies scare many people, until they undo the taint of corrupt business that follows them, they are not likely to be truly successful at a national level for many years. The GOP has time to wed their traditional and admirable beliefs of small government and fiscal responsibility into a framework acceptable to the nation. But it has to want to do that.

    And burying its head in the sand, in a manner akin to this post, is not going to do it, or its supporters any favors. Until then, we can at least rest assured that they will strive to succeed in their goal of ensuring Obama is a two-term president. We all know thats more important than dealing with the economic mess.

    EJL

  4. #724
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    To be fair, it was the death of the party until it reinvented itself (or at least reinvented how it campaigned). Kerry was running against one of the weakest Presidents of all time and didn't win.
    I would actually say that GWB is one of the best campaigners of all time. His activities as president aside, he and his party ran a brutal campaign and won because of it.

    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

  5. #725
    Honestly? I think he only won because the democrats ran weak candidates twice in a row.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    Anti-racism protests are racist against whites.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    I am The Riddler. I never 'make stuff up'.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Honestly? I think he only won because the democrats ran weak candidates twice in a row.
    I kinda agree with that.

    Obama is a phenomenon America has never see before and may never see again.

    But George W Bush's campaign was no slouch either.

  7. #727
    Epic! Mnevis's Avatar
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    PPP was the most accurate poll in 2012, they've released their first post-election poll results.

    Some of the highlights: 49% of Republicans polled think Acorn stole the election for Obama, despite having closed its doors two years ago.
    56% of Republicans polled oppose the secession movement*. Oddly enough, when broken down by race, more Hispanics than Caucasians support secession.
    Despite winning 70some percent of the Hispanic vote, Obama's approval rating with Hispanics is only 56%. They're paying attention.
    Grover Norquist's favorability rating is highest with twenty-somethings, at 26%
    Secession is actually most popular with the youngins, too, at 29%
    77% answered 'not sure' about Nate Silver. Guess he wasn't as famous as those of us campaign junkies thought?

    *"Would you support or oppose your state
    seceding from the union because of Barack
    Obama’s re-election?"

  8. #728
    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post
    Guess he wasn't as famous as those of us campaign junkies thought?
    Fame doesn't make you correct. Being correct might make you famous, though.
    Potato.

  9. #729
    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post
    77% answered 'not sure' about Nate Silver. Guess he wasn't as famous as those of us campaign junkies thought?
    Their other results suggest that the number of people who actually knew who Silver is was probably even lower, as many people lie about what they know because they want to feel more informed. This reminds me of when I was getting heavily into baseball statistics a decade ago and it felt like everyone I was chatting with online was familiar with concepts like FIP and WAR, then you'd talk to people about baseball and no one knew those things. It's always weird to me how many people have opinions about things that they haven't spent any time at all learning about.

  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post

    Secession is actually most popular with the youngins, too, at 29%
    meh on this. i have no evidence of this, but i happen to believe that the young are the more prolific troll population as well

  11. #731
    The Insane Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    meh on this. i have no evidence of this, but i happen to believe that the young are the more prolific troll population as well
    Or they tend to not truly understand the repercussions of secession.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Or they tend to not truly understand the repercussions of secession.
    i think both tbh, trolls and some that really dont understand consequences

  13. #733
    Epic! Mnevis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Or they tend to not truly understand the repercussions of secession.
    As if the older proponents of secession understand better?

    I like this bit of commentary, from Bob Cesca @ Huffpo:

    "First, the good news. Fifty-six percent of Republican voters aren't really interested in seceding from the United States.

    Wait. Isn't that kind of low given the seriousness of topic?

    The bumper-sticker party of "these colors don't run" -- the party that practically branded the notion of American patriotism during the previous decade -- is only around half-sure that it doesn't want to totally abandon the United States it heretofore claimed to love so much. The other half is split between still making up its mind on secession and totally wanting to secede right away."

    But I guess they were saying "Love it or leave it" as well. I don't think they meant "and pretend you can take the state you live in with you" at the time though.

  14. #734
    Stood in the Fire
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    The best thing for republicans to do would be to close up shop and go home. A single party system is the only way for the kingdom to progress.

  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    A prime example of some one being blind to the facts.

    Obama won. He got a lower vote than in 2008, but he won. He won over 300 EC votes.

    He was a president who ran on an unemployment rate of over 8% for 40+ months, who presided over a sluggish economy....and he still won.

    And the popular vote, sad to say, is essentially meaningless. The parties base their campaigns on the EC system. Not the popular vote.



    They won the Presidency.
    They secured their hold on the Senate.
    Obama won the popular vote
    And the Democrats even appear to have picked up some seats in the House. Not totally un-noteworthy given how gerrymandered that body is.

    That looks like a fairly substantial win to me. And if he lost two states, the big fact the Republians can't ignore is the increasing Democratisation of traditional Republican states.

    The Republicans, conversely, have campaigned on a set of policies that while attractive to white, middle aged males alienates just about every other demographic in the country. Even if they HAD won, few of their policies would have lasted long. In a way, the Republicans losing is good for them...because it gives them a chance to reflect and try to engage with the modern world instead of enacting policies that would drive them out of power for a generation.

    Republicans have a long history and much to be proud of. But their drift to the extreme right has hurt them, and it has hurt their credibility. The electorate is not naive enough to think Romneys uncosted plans based on wishful thinking are going to help the nation. They electorate are smart enough to realise Romneys plans didn't work too well when Bush enacted them. The electorate is smart enough to recognise that Romneys foreign policy essentially mirrored Obamas.

    Obama may not be better in many regards, but he at least is a known quantity this time around. But the Republicans need to realise that they live in the world that is, not the world as they wish it to be. European style austerity measures may be the Holy grail to the Tea Party, but can the nation really afford the 2% hit to growth such policies have caused Europe?

    Will the Republicans win in 2016? It is possible. But they have a long road to convince those who voted Democrat this time that the GOP are a party vote voting for. If they continue to treat the elctorate like dirt, they're going to lose again. Heck...if the trends contine, it won't be that long before TEXAS is democratic.

    Obama did not win because of Sandy or Christie
    Obama did not win because of a media conspiracy
    Obama did not win because of voter suppression or electral fraud.

    Obama won because he ran a better campaign against a weak opponent who wasn't fully supported or embraced by his party.
    He won because the policies he is following, the policies he said he would follow, are more in tune with what the electorate want
    He won because the electorate still blames Republicans for the economic mess the nation is in and for the obstructionism that cost the nation so dearly in recent years.
    He won because the policies Romney and the GOP espoused scares many voters away from a party they have much in common with.

    Until the GOP recognise this, until they realise that their dreams of immigration control are essentially dead, that their economic plans turn off more people than they attract, that their foreign, defence and security policies scare many people, until they undo the taint of corrupt business that follows them, they are not likely to be truly successful at a national level for many years. The GOP has time to wed their traditional and admirable beliefs of small government and fiscal responsibility into a framework acceptable to the nation. But it has to want to do that.

    And burying its head in the sand, in a manner akin to this post, is not going to do it, or its supporters any favors. Until then, we can at least rest assured that they will strive to succeed in their goal of ensuring Obama is a two-term president. We all know thats more important than dealing with the economic mess.

    EJL
    While there's a few things in here I'd disagree with, for the most part (and the most important parts) this is something I agree with and acknowledge as being correct.

    Being a conservative, and being a Republican are things that I'm proud of. I have a great desire to see this country stand up and be the greatest in the world (I feel we could be better than we are). Small government, individual responsibility, and the proper promotion of capitalism, as opposed to increasing socialism and growing reliance on our government are things that we as a nation need to strive towards, but without a reworking of our party itself, and the way we structure ourselves, the things we oppose will only continue to grow.

    The largest issue is that we (the Republican party) are simply standing our ground, and refusing to budge whatsoever. We need to come up with compromises, and need to slowly start working back towards the principals that made this country what it is. The image that's presented (regardless of it's accuracy) is that of a bunch of stodgy old white men who don't give a shit about anyone else, and even though it's not true, that doesn't matter. What matters is how we're perceived, and right now we're perceived as being just that. There's absolutely no reason Obama should have been able to win this past election. The Republicans lost it for themselves. There was a grand opportunity to step in, take control, and put things back on the right track, but thanks to infighting, and perceived inability or unwillingness to do what we need to do (versus Obama who ADMITTED THAT HE CAN'T CHANGE ANYTHING!!!) we're stuck with 4 more years of increased socialism, and the further decline of the American Way.

  16. #736
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Meh... The republicans got to screw things up for years under Junior. So why get upset over the democrats wanting to have a turn to do the same?

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