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  1. #1

    Frustration over our new healer (Paladin)

    Hello, I am raid leader of my guild.

    Recently, we recruited our new paladin healer.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Xicuh/advanced

    He did well bad on our first raid, where he only stepped in for blade lord (We 3 healed, will 2 heal this week), and I made a thread, gathered advice - And talked to him.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12546&e=13025

    Hes mistakes were summed up: Bad/No cooldown usage, Not enough Holy Shock uses, Low healing overall.

    He shaped up till this raid. Everyone had a bad night, but something seemed off. We wiped a ton in MSV normal, which we never do.
    The frustration was mainly on Elegon and Will.

    Our priest healer, which just went Disc since it was buffed to try it out, kept saying that he felt alone on healing.

    Yet looking at logs, it seemed like the holy paladin did better on him on those fights.

    Our priest healer is decent, and I trust him - Because he have knowledge of his char. The paladin have bad english, which is 100% alright, yet something seems off - Him asking what gems he should buy during the break, and general seem to bad a tad slower on things/low "utility" usage.

    It was his first raid on 2-6 boss in MSV normal mind you, but our priest healer really called him out.
    Hes normally 2 healing with a monk healer, which they have no problem with, and was one of the strengths in our guild (Our healing).

    It might been he was new to disc, but he played disc because as he like the spec more - And said he felt like he had to keep tanks up - Especially on Will of the Emp, or the raid during Elegon's last phase / p1.

    I would ask you to go through this log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-szy69b7avslbgjic/ ,
    and see / assist me whats going on. Me + a few other from the raid tryed looking, and we really couldn't see anything besides the priest having more healing on tanks on a few tries.

    Thanks in advance.
    Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l%C3%A8/simple
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  2. #2
    Talk about a bad night, Deaths Overview reads like an instruction manual on what not to do. o_O;

    Looking at the Healing Done chart for overall, the priest has higher HPS (39k vs 30k) but gets beat out by the paladin due to inactivity (74.9% vs 99.6%). I don't see the argument from the priest that he was "healing it alone" when the paladin was doing something almost the entire time, as opposed to the priest doing nothing 25.1% of the time.
    On the case of "utility" I'm not seeing much he isn't making at least some use of, except for Hand of Protection. I don't see him casting that. It does have its uses on certain encounters. However, in the same breath, your priest wasn't casting Pain Suppression. With as many deaths as there were to damage, I find that rather sad. Are you sure he knows what he's doing?

    Going by successful kills,
    Stone Guard - The monk had 43k HPS and 97.8% activity. Him being at the top makes sense. The paladin had 38k HPS with 99.3% activity. While the priest had 38k HPS and 90.9% activity. Thus, the paladin performed better in the healing category.
    Feng - Though the priest had lower Activity again, his much higher HPS allowed him to topple the paladin and almost tie the monk.
    Gara'jal - The paladin had lower HPS, but higher activity by a decent margin over the priest, so once again he pulled ahead. Monk was better in Activity than both of them, but slightly lower than the priest in HPS.
    Spirit Kings - Lower HPS and lower activity on the priest; the paladin was the better healer by far.
    Elegon - The priest, while having superior HPS by a pretty fair amount, was inactive for about a quarter of the fight, thus he was second to the paladin again. However, it is worth noting that the priest excelled on the final phase healing.
    Will - Once again, the priest had higher HPS but much lower activity and was beaten in total healing.

    Aside from the paladin messing up on some mechanics (and judging by the deaths overview, EVERYONE in your raid was having issues with some relatively easy mechanics), he seems to be a better healer than your priest. If he is messing up in some fashion and using inefficient heals over efficient ones (I'm not a paladin healer, so I can't be positive), that would only make him that much better than the priest. Are you sure this is about the paladin and not the priest? Because it appears to be contrary to what you asked.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelven View Post
    Talk about a bad night, Deaths Overview reads like an instruction manual on what not to do. o_O;

    Looking at the Healing Done chart for overall, the priest has higher HPS (39k vs 30k) but gets beat out by the paladin due to inactivity (74.9% vs 99.6%). I don't see the argument from the priest that he was "healing it alone" when the paladin was doing something almost the entire time, as opposed to the priest doing nothing 25.1% of the time.
    On the case of "utility" I'm not seeing much he isn't making at least some use of, except for Hand of Protection. I don't see him casting that. It does have its uses on certain encounters. However, in the same breath, your priest wasn't casting Pain Suppression. With as many deaths as there were to damage, I find that rather sad. Are you sure he knows what he's doing?

    Going by successful kills,
    Stone Guard - The monk had 43k HPS and 97.8% activity. Him being at the top makes sense. The paladin had 38k HPS with 99.3% activity. While the priest had 38k HPS and 90.9% activity. Thus, the paladin performed better in the healing category.
    Feng - Though the priest had lower Activity again, his much higher HPS allowed him to topple the paladin and almost tie the monk.
    Gara'jal - The paladin had lower HPS, but higher activity by a decent margin over the priest, so once again he pulled ahead. Monk was better in Activity than both of them, but slightly lower than the priest in HPS.
    Spirit Kings - Lower HPS and lower activity on the priest; the paladin was the better healer by far.
    Elegon - The priest, while having superior HPS by a pretty fair amount, was inactive for about a quarter of the fight, thus he was second to the paladin again. However, it is worth noting that the priest excelled on the final phase healing.
    Will - Once again, the priest had higher HPS but much lower activity and was beaten in total healing.

    Aside from the paladin messing up on some mechanics (and judging by the deaths overview, EVERYONE in your raid was having issues with some relatively easy mechanics), he seems to be a better healer than your priest. If he is messing up in some fashion and using inefficient heals over efficient ones (I'm not a paladin healer, so I can't be positive), that would only make him that much better than the priest. Are you sure this is about the paladin and not the priest? Because it appears to be contrary to what you asked.
    I thank you for your walkthrough. Yes, indeed it was a bad night. Even for myself, I was dps-whoring to get logs, and fucked up on the most stupid things.

    I will talk to him, and your points are legit. Disc priest should be the most active classes of all in my opinion, duo to Atonement healing.

    Looking through his armory, and compared to a top geared Disc - Jhazrun, it made me realise that our priest have about 7k spirit , where he have 12k.

    That might cause the inactivity, spirit scales wonderful with disc.

    The priest have just healed everything with the monk, with them being on par in hps/healing done (Priest as holy), and seems to know his class overall (Also uses life grips decently etc).
    The paladin is new, and I basicly told him exactly what to spec for - because hes talents were all wrong. If seems tho, hes activity is decent, and I guess the paladin had to be raid healing duo to how bad we handled adds yday (Low on dotters, and 2x melee) on Will. The paladin is worse geared tho, so I guess we´ll see!

    If anyone else have more advice, please keep them coming
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Everyone who does not miss Vanilla has no heart. Whoever wishes it back has no brain.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelven View Post
    Talk about a bad night, Deaths Overview reads like an instruction manual on what not to do. o_O;

    Looking at the Healing Done chart for overall, the priest has higher HPS (39k vs 30k) but gets beat out by the paladin due to inactivity (74.9% vs 99.6%). I don't see the argument from the priest that he was "healing it alone" when the paladin was doing something almost the entire time, as opposed to the priest doing nothing 25.1% of the time.
    On the case of "utility" I'm not seeing much he isn't making at least some use of, except for Hand of Protection. I don't see him casting that. It does have its uses on certain encounters. However, in the same breath, your priest wasn't casting Pain Suppression. With as many deaths as there were to damage, I find that rather sad. Are you sure he knows what he's doing?

    Going by successful kills,
    Stone Guard - The monk had 43k HPS and 97.8% activity. Him being at the top makes sense. The paladin had 38k HPS with 99.3% activity. While the priest had 38k HPS and 90.9% activity. Thus, the paladin performed better in the healing category.
    Feng - Though the priest had lower Activity again, his much higher HPS allowed him to topple the paladin and almost tie the monk.
    Gara'jal - The paladin had lower HPS, but higher activity by a decent margin over the priest, so once again he pulled ahead. Monk was better in Activity than both of them, but slightly lower than the priest in HPS.
    Spirit Kings - Lower HPS and lower activity on the priest; the paladin was the better healer by far.
    Elegon - The priest, while having superior HPS by a pretty fair amount, was inactive for about a quarter of the fight, thus he was second to the paladin again. However, it is worth noting that the priest excelled on the final phase healing.
    Will - Once again, the priest had higher HPS but much lower activity and was beaten in total healing.

    Aside from the paladin messing up on some mechanics (and judging by the deaths overview, EVERYONE in your raid was having issues with some relatively easy mechanics), he seems to be a better healer than your priest. If he is messing up in some fashion and using inefficient heals over efficient ones (I'm not a paladin healer, so I can't be positive), that would only make him that much better than the priest. Are you sure this is about the paladin and not the priest? Because it appears to be contrary to what you asked.

    You can't judge disc priest's by activity % because how WoL looks at our activity. For example:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...&e=2008#Mïdna


    Incredibly high overall parse and 76% activity. Up time on a disc priest is just not really a valid thing to use to evaluate them. And we should all know by now a disc priest in an average guild on an average fight should be lower hps them any class when all things are equal.

  5. #5
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Hi Faylo I'm going to move this to the Paladin thread. Reason being is because you're addressing a particular class more so than a general post about classes.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Azshira View Post
    Hi Faylo I'm going to move this to the Paladin thread. Reason being is because you're addressing a particular class more so than a general post about classes.
    Thanks. Reason for posting it here, was also so people could look at the Disc priest aswell.
    Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l%C3%A8/simple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Everyone who does not miss Vanilla has no heart. Whoever wishes it back has no brain.

  7. #7
    Dat meta gem :s He's also missing a few reforges. But I'm not sure I see the problem when your Priest is underperforming below him. It could just be that on Blade-Lord he wasn't 100% clear on the tactics so wasn't preempting incoming damage.

  8. #8
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faylo View Post
    Thanks. Reason for posting it here, was also so people could look at the Disc priest aswell.
    Just a very quick look at the Paladin (I'm busy) but his heals are too few and far between it seems. There are many things he could do to improve the performance. Holy Light heals are extremely rare and for example it's the one spell I'd be casting nearly constantly. One tip I can say is he should never be standing idle doing absolutely nothing (which he seems to be). He should be casting, it doesn't mean the spell should land but it should be cancelled at the last second etc if needs be or let it heal to apply a shield etc. Yes it's great predicting when damage incomes and regen mana etc (I can understand with Divine plea etc). His cd usage is not the best, but he is using them, albeit badly. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1543&e=2022 for example he gained 2 Divine Favor here in almost 8 mins, only 1 Guardian and only 1 Avenging Wrath, suprisingly he uses his Holy Avenger rather well, which is weird due to the bad Avenging Wrath and Guardian.

    He has Eternal Flame as a talent but he is using this extremely rarely which is nonsense, if he is going to pick the talent, he should at least know how to use it. You can refer to EF blanketing threads here if needs be. Prism is used badly also in which 80% of the time it was overhealing, he must be using it at extremely bad times as the healing done by it is extremely poor but what strikes me is he had more healing from it than Holy Lights (this just gets back to the point that he is not constantly casting which you should do).

    He also seems to be getting hit by the bad things a bit too much. Anyway hope some of that helps.

    Lastly, he is missing some reforges etc.
    Proud Moderator of Raids and Dungeons.
    "You face not the Mod Hammer alone, but the infractions I command."

  9. #9
    I'll look over these logs in detail in a bit but a word on disc and uptime. WoL does NOT count building Spirit Shells toward disc uptime so all discs are going to see numbers that look very low. I was healing with literally one of the best disc priests in the world who regularly has uptimes around 75-80%. Those numbers are completely in line with what your priest is doing so that's an unfair point to compare.

  10. #10
    You should be more worried about retarded stuff like this:
    Code:
    [23:08:42.396] Carnâge's Shield of the Righteous fades from Carnâge
    [23:08:43.610] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 119555 (B: 51238)
    [23:08:45.104] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 167520
    [23:08:46.600] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 173750
    [23:08:46.655] Carnâge Word of Glory Carnâge +204028
    [23:08:48.116] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 183715
    [23:08:49.607] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 134491 (A: 49302)
    [23:08:49.898] Carnâge Word of Glory Carnâge +*58408*
    [23:08:51.127] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 164978 (A: 12358)
    [23:08:54.119] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 92742 (A: 19944, B: 48294)
    [23:08:57.116] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 104646 (A: 48303)
    [23:08:57.397] Carnâge gains Shield of the Righteous from Carnâge
    Code:
    [23:11:02.519] Carnâge's Shield of the Righteous fades from Carnâge
    [23:11:03.031] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 202675
    [23:11:03.518] Carnâge Word of Glory Carnâge +193272 (O: 42371)
    [23:11:04.510] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 212468
    [23:11:06.031] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 166441 (A: 2891)
    [23:11:08.570] Carnâge Word of Glory Carnâge +92027
    [23:11:09.028] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 128014 (A: 1403, B: 55465)
    [23:11:12.038] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 116518 (A: 8000, B: 53365)
    [23:11:13.547] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 122290 (B: 52410)
    [23:11:15.051] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 48449 (A: 66997, B: 49477)
    [23:11:15.129] Carnâge gains Shield of the Righteous from Carnâge
    [23:11:17.278] Carnâge Word of Glory Carnâge +102181
    [23:11:18.051] Qin-xi hits Carnâge 80801

  11. #11
    Your disc priest should be smashing both of your other healers on 10 man but definitely the pally..

    Disc priests appeared bad early because they are so gear dependant.

    And there is no reason he should have such low activity.

    I think the main thing to come out of this thread is your healers are better at mechanics than the rest of your raid and your pally is doing just fine considering its a 10 man guild.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by doovez View Post
    And there is no reason he should have such low activity.
    Did you not read the reply's before you posted. There is in fact a very valid reason to be at 75% activity. Time casting spirit shell is not counted towards healing time. Also (a huge factor) the priest was using PW:Solace (a valid choice mind you) and that also does not count towards active time. Good disc priest will hover between 80% and 90%, this one was a bit under, but you have to give a bit of wiggle room cause he is in meh gear and its his off-spec. As stated above me. The healers seem to be in a fine place, its the raids overall execution that seems to be lacking.

  13. #13
    The paladin have bad english.

    Please try to stay on topic when posting. - Malthanis
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2012-11-09 at 02:10 PM.

  14. #14
    Im currently at work so I didn't look over the logs, but keep in mind that pala and disc healing use arbsorb mechanics, while most other healers use healing-over-time mechanics.

    I would probably ask the priest to go holy when paired with a pala as the only 2 healers.

  15. #15
    The Patient Arthrun's Avatar
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    Tell your paladin to get the right statweights, mastery is pretty damn useless in this tier (Except as a dumpstat), he should go for haste, haste, more haste, and crit.

    Spi > Int > Haste > Crit > Mastery

    This is my build atleast, and I love it.
    Last edited by Arthrun; 2012-11-09 at 04:45 PM.
    Happiness!

    {◕ ◡ ◕}

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthrun View Post
    Tell your paladin to get the right statweights, mastery is pretty damn useless in this tier (Except as a dumpstat), he should go for haste, haste, more haste, and crit.

    Spi > Int > Haste > Crit > Mastery
    Even I know this is not the way to go for many, many boss fights in this tier.

  17. #17
    Field Marshal Diynah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthrun View Post
    Tell your paladin to get the right statweights, mastery is pretty damn useless in this tier (Except as a dumpstat), he should go for haste, haste, more haste, and crit.

    Spi > Int > Haste > Crit > Mastery
    Your signature fits you.

    Since we cant get enough regen, Haste is at the very bottom of the priority list. Hell even Crit is better for bigger Mastery shields
    Blade Lord Ta'yak yells: They failed thier test. Will you?

  18. #18
    The Patient Arthrun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diynah View Post
    Your signature fits you.

    Since we cant get enough regen, Haste is at the very bottom of the priority list. Hell even Crit is better for bigger Mastery shields
    Thanks for the compliment.

    It very much depends on your talents doesn't it? With haste being over the top for EF and ES. Mastery being better if you're grouphealing.
    Hell, mastery is pretty useless for all the talents, while haste isn't.

    But then again, I'm rolling with a EF/LH build with Divine Purpose, and that works awesome for me. Spamming EF everywhere, and crit for those extra fast heals thanks to Holy Shock.

    Also; not enough regen? Just weave in your DP's and trinkets at the right time and you shouldn't have problem with regen at all. (Not to forget LoH and the awesome potions.)
    Happiness!

    {◕ ◡ ◕}

  19. #19
    The awkward moment when you see a link to your own armory.

  20. #20
    All the best paladins in the world are prioritizing mastery over other substats besides spirit.

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