View Poll Results: Whose to blame for the Horde's current state?

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  • Thrall - Passing leadership to an inexperied Orc

    60 34.68%
  • Thrall - (For a different reason)

    17 9.83%
  • Garrosh

    83 47.98%
  • Other (Neither Thrall, or Garrosh, or perhaps both of the them!)

    13 7.51%
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  1. #1

    Thrall is to blame for the Horde's current state

    Anyone take a step back, and realize Garrosh is doing what just about any Warsong Orc would be doing? Loud? Check! Obnoxious? Check! Craving the blood of the enemy? CHECK!

    Thrall put Garrosh in charge, because he is an Orc of the old ways! Look at his skin, and you can see this! In addition he is a veteran of the Northrend campaign, and having the guy who was apart of defeating the Lich King, is what Thrall viewed as being good for his people, since he was busy delving into his shamanistic ways. Why not Saurfang? Well he was busy mourning the death of his son. I digress...

    Garrosh is a Warsong Orc at heart, and when he looked to his father's history he at first viewed it as a disgrace, but was then told of Grom's heroic ending and suddenly viewed the previous traits listed above as being admiral! Gaining this sudden sense of pride, he displayed this in Northrend, and that lead to him to eventually gain the trust of the Horde (Note: The majority of these people being Orcs) to become their Warchief. This is where things go downhill for the Horde...

    Thrall made the mistake of giving to much power to the immature Hellscream. Garrosh is a deadly soldier ready to unleash on the Alliance, but when it comes to the whole position of Warchief that is a different story. When taunted by Garrosh in the events leading to Northrend, Thrall should have simply dusted it off, the way an adult does to a insult from a child.

    In the current state of things, I do not view Garrosh as doing wrong, I simply see with each error he preforms this being Thrall's mistake for giving the young Orc so much power over the people. What would have been best for Garrosh is to have him train under Saurfang, and turn the young Hellscream into a killing machine who could uphold honor.

    I am personally sad to see the last heir to the Hellscream (as far as we know) throne be tainted as he currently is. Not by the demons in RFC, not by the Sha in Pandaria, but by Thrall for making a bad call, and expecting Garrosh to be civilized as Thrall is.

    So the question here is who is to blame? Thrall for giving the power to Garrosh? Garrosh for taking the mantel of Warchief? Or another possible source/outcome theorized within the community?
    Last edited by PvPisthelifeforme; 2012-11-10 at 08:29 AM.

  2. #2
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    thats a bit harsh

    but really, you cant but blame for anything on a single person, everyone has their feet wet with the waters of blame
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  3. #3
    I still think Thrall is awesome, but I agree he is to blame to allow Garrosh to show how it sucks to be commanded by Soldier, instead of a Diplomat.

    He knew that it would be the outcome and allowed that to "give a lesson".

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Oogzy's Avatar
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    Orcs of the old ways weren't as extremely aggressive as Garrosh is. Garrosh is aggressive to an extreme.

    These tables bar our way.. ┬──┬ ┬──┬

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    thats a bit harsh

    but really, you cant but blame for anything on a single person, everyone has their feet wet with the waters of blame
    While I agree a lot of blood on the hands of the Horde is spread wide, I am more looking to the first domino of all of this. That would be Thrall allowing Garrosh to lead, but I am curious to hear from other people think.
    Last edited by PvPisthelifeforme; 2012-11-10 at 08:37 AM.

  6. #6
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    The heir to the Hellscream throne? They're not a fucking royal family.

    Why would Thrall be to blame instead of Garrosh, if it's Garrosh's actions?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Oogzy View Post
    Orcs of the old ways weren't as extremely aggressive as Garrosh is. Garrosh is aggressive to an extreme.
    Exactly! This comes natural in the Warsong clan, and how could you expect a wild aggressive soldier lead a multi-race army?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oogzy View Post
    Garrosh is aggressive to an extreme.
    Which is normal by Hellscream standards
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    The heir to the Hellscream throne? They're not a fucking royal family.

    Why would Thrall be to blame instead of Garrosh, if it's Garrosh's actions?
    While these are Garrosh's actions, I view it as giving a child control of a nation. Who do you blame the child, or the ones who gave them the power in the first place?

    As for the whole heir thing, you can change the wording, but currently Garrosh is the last living Hellscream (as far as we know), and the whole family is full of rich history!
    Last edited by PvPisthelifeforme; 2012-11-10 at 08:38 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PvPisthelifeforme View Post
    That would be Thrall allowing Garrosh to lead, but I am curious to hear from other people.
    Well Thrall did not appoint Garrosh with the thought of him leading permenantly.

    Thrall expected him to be Warchief for a few months, so he chose him more as a figurehead
    Due to his charisma and popularity, the Horde's spirits were lifted in the dark times of post-Wrath Azeroth

    But of course, plans dont always turn out all neat and dandy in Warcraft
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  11. #11
    Maybe thrall shouldve left a ruling council in his absence instead of heaping on all that power onto a rookies shoulders

    Now i must say i agree with garroshes goals and i admire for what he achieved but the way he has handled his allies is what will cost him in the end had he been more diplomatic instead of shouting at anyone who disagrees with him he couldve made the horde much stronger than it is had he been able to articulate his goals to his allies maybe people like vol'jin wouldve been more enthusiastic and been on board

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Well Thrall did not appoint Garrosh with the thought of him leading permenantly.

    Thrall expected him to be Warchief for a few months, so he chose him more as a figurehead
    Due to his charisma and popularity, the Horde's spirits were lifted in the dark times of post-Wrath Azeroth

    But of course, plans dont always turn out all neat and dandy in Warcraft
    I see, and this still begs the question of allowing an inexperienced Orc lead in the first place. If it was simply he proved after his term that he was doing well, then it looks like Thrall the Farseer.... did not see far enough YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-!

  13. #13
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PvPisthelifeforme View Post
    While these are Garrosh's actions, I view it as giving a child control of a nation. Who do you blame the child, or the ones who gave them the power in the first place?

    As for the whole heir thing, you can change the wording, but currently Garrosh is the last living Hellscream (as far as we know), and the whole family is full of rich history!
    Garrosh is not a child, he's just reckless. It's more like giving a gun to someone you know is eager to kill someone. It wasn't Thrall's best decision, he's definitely partly to blame, but in the end it's still Garrosh who is to be blamed for his actions.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    Maybe thrall shouldve left a ruling council in his absence instead of heaping on all that power onto a rookies shoulders

    Now i must say i agree with garroshes goals and i admire for what he achieved but the way he has handled his allies is what will cost him in the end had he been more diplomatic instead of shouting at anyone who disagrees with him he couldve made the horde much stronger than it is had he been able to articulate his goals to his allies maybe people like vol'jin wouldve been more enthusiastic and been on board
    Garrosh living with Orcs all of his life, and never really working together with other races has also proved to be costly. This showed early in cata with his racism towards Vol'jin and his darkspears. Being narrow-minded it seems like he viewed the "bigger the better" as far as races go, and that is why he kept Taurens in Org.

  15. #15
    anyone who wants war instead of peace is a horrible leader to begin with, sylvanas and garrosh are the only two in the horde who are really "death to the alliance!"

    besides, aren't most warrior orcs reckless in the first place? look at all the famous orcs in history, they're all badass, crazy warriors. they don't think or use their heads, they just charge at you and swing their axes. talk about a terrible race for leading multiple races.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Garrosh is not a child, he's just reckless. It's more like giving a gun to someone you know is eager to kill someone. It wasn't Thrall's best decision, he's definitely partly to blame, but in the end it's still Garrosh who is to be blamed for his actions.
    While not a child, he is quite young compared to other leaders/former leaders within the Horde.

    As for the gun analogy, that is perfect, and it begs the question of why Thrall would place that much power in a hot-headed buffoon that is Garrosh? (I like Garrosh as a soldier, but when it comes to the whole thinking thing.... yeah.... no.)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocobo606 View Post
    anyone who wants war instead of peace is a horrible leader to begin with,.
    how so?
    Is a bad peace really better than the most just war?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  18. #18
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    Yep, but not to the point of everything being his fault, sole blame doesn't lie with him though.

    The fact is that Thrall throughout Warcraft has been an awful judge of character, he would like to think everybody sees how he sees but they don't. We even saw it in Wrath where he trusted a faction with a freaking Dreadlord in second command of whom betrayed him. But yes he appointed Garrosh despite al the crap he pulled in Northrend and prior during the Theramore Peace Summit which should have told him that it was wrong to give Garrosh absolute power over the entire Horde.

    However I don't think he could have ever imagined what Garrosh would do once in power.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by PvPisthelifeforme View Post
    While not a child, he is quite young compared to other leaders/former leaders within the Horde.

    As for the gun analogy, that is perfect, and it begs the question of why Thrall would place that much power in a hot-headed buffoon that is Garrosh? (I like Garrosh as a soldier, but when it comes to the whole thinking thing.... yeah.... no.)
    Unless it's been ret-conned, Garrosh is older than Thrall. I agree with your concept, though. Thrall should have seen this coming. Cairne and Vol'jin did see it coming and tried to warn him, but he wouldn't listen.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by chocobo606 View Post
    anyone who wants war instead of peace is a horrible leader to begin with, sylvanas and garrosh are the only two in the horde who are really "death to the alliance!"

    besides, aren't most warrior orcs reckless in the first place? look at all the famous orcs in history, they're all badass, crazy warriors. they don't think or use their heads, they just charge at you and swing their axes. talk about a terrible race for leading multiple races.
    The whole peace thing while sounds idle, simply would ruin the Warcraft Universe and thus there can never be peace, but only temporary alliances made between the two factions.

    As for the reckless portion, yes many Orcs are uncivilized when compared to the Horde's Orcs, and there are many reasons behind this. The reasoning why the Orc are currently leading the Horde, is due to Thrall (raised by humans, trained by Shamans) who was able to keep a lot of the blood lust at bay, and was able to unite Orc clans, and other factions through diplomacy (Taurens and Trolls).

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