View Poll Results: Whose to blame for the Horde's current state?

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  • Thrall - Passing leadership to an inexperied Orc

    60 34.68%
  • Thrall - (For a different reason)

    17 9.83%
  • Garrosh

    83 47.98%
  • Other (Neither Thrall, or Garrosh, or perhaps both of the them!)

    13 7.51%
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  1. #101
    If the President of the United States appointed somebody with a low level of experience and a high temper to a prominent military position, who then utilized his position to go on to start numerous needless wars and alienate your allies, who would you blame for making the poorest decision?

    Of course, this is all a fictional universe, and conflict is good for story, intrigue and progression, but from a responsibility standpoint, the commander is always responsible for his subordinates' actions.

  2. #102
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManjiSanji View Post
    I the commander is always responsible for his subordinates' actions.
    When cata was released and the quest chain in stonetalon was brought up, many including myself said it was down to Garrosh that his commander did what he did to the druid school, and of course, like even now, Garrosh's fans said it wasn't Garrosh's fault and he can't be held accountable for it.
    And now, those same people try and accuse Thrall of being responsible for Garrosh's actions and none of it is Garrosh's fault. Again, the double standards card.
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  3. #103
    Stood in the Fire Korgesh's Avatar
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    I think Thrall's selection of fucked up races is to blame TBH.

  4. #104
    Brewmaster Zeverin's Avatar
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    Garrosh is the current Commander in office, so he should/must be held accountable for his subordinates' actions done during his reign.
    Prime examples are the bombing of Stonetalon Mountains and the invasion of Gilneas. But he is not the sole culprit: Overlord Krom'gar is guilty of participating on the bombing, and Sylvanas is guilty of using the Plague on Gilneas, acting with complete disregard of Garrosh's orders.

    I don't think Thrall is responsible for Garrosh's actions.

  5. #105
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Okay people, time for a real life lesson in blame.

    You want to blame Thrall for Garrosh, not because it is his fault, but because you just want to take a poke at Thrall despite him having saved your characters worthless backsides.

    Well heres a lesson in why blame and blaming someone for anothers actions is never justified. See recently, my father died, he died from liver cancer after spending most of his life drinking. I grew up hating him for being a worthless deadbeat and never being there for me, my brother or mother. And yet, despite knowing it wasn't her fault for how he was, there were times of complete anger for him that I also wanted to lump that blame onto my mum for the way he was, that she could have divorced him or put him in a home, and I hated how she seemed to just be waiting and doing nothing.

    This of course was wrong, she was not responsible for the way he was, she didn't want to be stuck with him but held her time, knowing he'd kill himself. And even when he was diagnosed with cancer and was dying slowly, she took it upon herself to care for him in his weakened state. I realized that she was far more grounded then me, that despite him being a useless husband, she didn't have it in her to fully hate him, and as such, I realize all those times I blamed her for doing nothing to sort his drinking habits and spending all his money on booze, it wasn't her, the blame lay on him alone.

    So, accusing someone else for the actions of another is just petty, everyone, is they have the capacity to do so, is responsible for there own actions, and if they mess up, should have the blame put on them, not those around them.

    Just something to think about.
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  6. #106
    I wouldn't blame the horde any more than the alliance. Varian is the one that declared war, after all.

  7. #107
    I think you're taking this a bit too seriously, Trassk. Remember that it's just the plot of a video game.

    The fault is, while mostly on Garrosh, shared by both of them. Garrosh is the one who is making the mistakes that have resulted in turmoil within the Horde. Thrall is the one who gave the mantle of Warchief to someone inexperienced in such leadership.

  8. #108
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    I think you're taking this a bit too seriously, Trassk. Remember that it's just the plot of a video game.

    The fault is, while mostly on Garrosh, shared by both of them. Garrosh is the one who is making the mistakes that have resulted in turmoil within the Horde. Thrall is the one who gave the mantle of Warchief to someone inexperienced in such leadership.
    Its obvious Garrosh is to blame for his actions. Lumping blame on Thrall is not even reasonable anymore, since he lost so much along the way, and even still helped save azeroth from being destroyed.
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  9. #109
    Brewmaster Zeverin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I wouldn't blame the horde any more than the alliance. Varian is the one that declared war, after all.
    Exactly. During the Battle of Undercity, where he engaged in combat Thrall and Sylvanas. No apologies were made by Varian or the Alliance back then, despite that serious offense in Horde territory. Oddly enough, nobody entered in war.

    You kinda made me think that the Battle of Undercity is how Blizzard might handle the Siege of Orgrimmar patch. See, after Varian delt with Putricidus, and attacked Thrall and Sylvanas, he and his forces were forcibly teleported back to Stormwind, by Jaina. It won't surprise me one bit if Blizzard pulls it off again.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    When cata was released and the quest chain in stonetalon was brought up, many including myself said it was down to Garrosh that his commander did what he did to the druid school, and of course, like even now, Garrosh's fans said it wasn't Garrosh's fault and he can't be held accountable for it.
    And now, those same people try and accuse Thrall of being responsible for Garrosh's actions and none of it is Garrosh's fault. Again, the double standards card.
    Hilariously ironic as always.

  11. #111
    Stood in the Fire Satanous's Avatar
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    Lets be honest, most of the heroes in Warcraft are terrible judges of character. Hell Jaina has managed to flirt with two major bosses.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Pretty much this ^

    If Thrall hadn't gone to save azeroth then the horde wouldn't have anything to fight over, since the hour of fecking twilight would have killed everyone.

    Still, petty horde and alliance players don't think outside there boxes.
    Speaking of thinking outside boxes. Maybe Thrall shouldn't have even been the savior of Azeroth. If Metzen DIDN'T pick favorites then I can bet you right now that: 1. Azeroth would have been saved by someone other than Thrall 2. Garrosh would be a good guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  13. #113
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Its obvious Garrosh is to blame for his actions. Lumping blame on Thrall is not even reasonable anymore, since he lost so much along the way, and even still helped save azeroth from being destroyed.
    They are both at fault. He could have given power to anyone,Vol'jin, Cairne Saurfang....But who does he give it to? Some dude who is as in experienced as a paper clip. He felt the horde needed a war hero, which ironically Garrosh isn't one, he stayed in the outlands until thrall came and picked him up. The truth is he gave it to him thinking he needed it and that he was entitled to it, Thrall felt sorry for him. That is Thrall's weakness, he believes in people too much.

    It is the equivalent of me giving a child a gun and he ends up shooting someone or himself. I mean I just gave him a gun! I did not tell him to go shoot anybody, It's not my fault!
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  14. #114
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Both are at fault. Obviously Thrall is going to clean his own mess up but... I think putting Thrall as Warchief may not be the best idea(ZOMG).
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Okay people, time for a real life lesson in blame.

    You want to blame Thrall for Garrosh, not because it is his fault, but because you just want to take a poke at Thrall despite him having saved your characters worthless backsides.

    Well heres a lesson in why blame and blaming someone for anothers actions is never justified. See recently, my father died, he died from liver cancer after spending most of his life drinking. I grew up hating him for being a worthless deadbeat and never being there for me, my brother or mother. And yet, despite knowing it wasn't her fault for how he was, there were times of complete anger for him that I also wanted to lump that blame onto my mum for the way he was, that she could have divorced him or put him in a home, and I hated how she seemed to just be waiting and doing nothing.

    This of course was wrong, she was not responsible for the way he was, she didn't want to be stuck with him but held her time, knowing he'd kill himself. And even when he was diagnosed with cancer and was dying slowly, she took it upon herself to care for him in his weakened state. I realized that she was far more grounded then me, that despite him being a useless husband, she didn't have it in her to fully hate him, and as such, I realize all those times I blamed her for doing nothing to sort his drinking habits and spending all his money on booze, it wasn't her, the blame lay on him alone.

    So, accusing someone else for the actions of another is just petty, everyone, is they have the capacity to do so, is responsible for there own actions, and if they mess up, should have the blame put on them, not those around them.

    Just something to think about.

    dude, sorry but nobody cares. We are talking about game lore and you mix game with real life and your father with Thrall.
    You really need to make few steps back, you're losing it .

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    But if you read the book, at the end, Garrosh orders the horde to use demons in his war.
    both sides have always used demons to supplement their forces

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 04:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeverin View Post
    I don't think Thrall is responsible for Garrosh's actions.
    Thrall himself thought differently

    "whateever his disagreement with Garrosh about what happened in his adsence, it had been he who had appointed young Hellscream acting Warchief. It was his responsibility as much as Garrosh's..........."
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  17. #117
    Stood in the Fire Korgesh's Avatar
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    I personally think that every member of the Horde contributes to it's faults. The Forsaken have their own agendas, Garrosh has his own ambitions for the Orcs,the Goblins are there because it is in the current best interest of money, most members in the Horde are there for their own selfish reasons. You guys have to remember that the horde is a band of outcast in alliances of conviences, it has always been a volcano waiting to erupt, even just from within the Orcish factions. Thrall just had a good way of ignoring it, though he was kind of the lid that was keeping the volcano from erupting. When he left, the horde erupted.

    Was it his fault? Not solely his fault. Though it was also his responsibility to do whats best for the horde and he chose the world instead.

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