Poll: Whose to blame for the Horde's current state?

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  1. #21
    Thrall should have blown Garrosh head-off the day he challenge him in a duel (right before Wotlk)

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PvPisthelifeforme View Post
    As for the gun analogy, that is perfect, and it begs the question of why Thrall would place that much power in a hot-headed buffoon that is Garrosh? (I like Garrosh as a soldier, but when it comes to the whole thinking thing.... yeah.... no.)
    Because that hot-headed buffoon was charismatic, hailed as a war hero, and was respected by the youth of the Horde

    As Thrall said himself "Your obvious love for the Horde? That is more important to me than political acumen right now. And that, Garrosh Hellscream, you have in abundance."

    I guess you can say Thrall made the mistake expecting the advisors he left Garrosh would help him to the level he needed
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  3. #23
    Garrosh is older then Thrall. Garrosh grew up in a relatively peaceful time in Nagrand. Garrosh had the support of his tribe and from the Earthern Ring. He's got no reason at all to be foaming at the mouth with rage.

    Hense he's just an asshole with an axe to grind.

    Thrall left him in charge, hoping he'd learn to be a good leader. He was hoping Cairne and Vol'jin would help guide him down the right path. Instead, Garrosh murders Cairne over a petty squabble, and threatens to kill Vol'jin.

    Hense he's completely incompetant and unsuitable for any leadership position. The only role he suits is being in a berzerker vanguard. And he'd not even be good at that role, since apperently he's not a skilled fighter at all and can be beaten by:

    1/ A Shaman who's not even using his spells.
    2/ A elderly man.
    3/ Quillboar.

    Its quite funny how people think he's a badass. Goes to show how much his family name matters.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    Unless it's been ret-conned, Garrosh is older than Thrall. I agree with your concept, though. Thrall should have seen this coming. Cairne and Vol'jin did see it coming and tried to warn him, but he wouldn't listen.

    Honestly I do not know how old Garrosh is haha. I keep forgetting Thrall is not as old as his history paints him to be. Regardless the the concept of Garrosh being a child with a gun, can be replaced with a savage with a gun.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by PvPisthelifeforme
    I view it as giving a child control of a nation
    Garrosh is older than Thrall, he may be arrogant but that does not make him a child, Thrall may come off as older because he has been educated and is wise beyond his years.

    OT While Thrall's decision was the wrong one in our eyes, at the time, he believed that he was doing the best thing for the Horde, which is what Garrosh believes he is doing right now. Also, had Thrall sat in Org. all day waiting for Alliance to raid the city, Deathwing would have destroyed Azeroth...

    They both take some blame because both believed they were doing the right thing.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Because that hot-headed buffoon was charismatic, hailed as a war hero, and was respected by the youth of the Horde

    As Thrall said himself "Your obvious love for the Horde? That is more important to me than political acumen right now. And that, Garrosh Hellscream, you have in abundance."

    I guess you can say Thrall made the mistake expecting the advisors he left Garrosh would help him to the level he needed
    I see now what you meant originally with it being harsh on person. From the sounds of things, Thrall went in with good intentions, and the proper tools in place to "fix" Garrosh, but Garrosh was much more unruly than expected?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunarius View Post
    Garrosh is older than Thrall, he may be arrogant but that does not make him a child, Thrall may come off as older because he has been educated and is wise beyond his years.

    OT While Thrall's decision was the wrong one in our eyes, at the time, he believed that he was doing the best thing for the Horde, which is what Garrosh believes he is doing right now. Also, had Thrall sat in Org. all day waiting for Alliance to raid the city, Deathwing would have destroyed Azeroth...

    They both take some blame because both believed they were doing the right thing.
    TBH had the scourge not attacked orgrimmar im sure the horde prolly would never had gone to war in northrend and the lich king wouldve gained in power till it was too late to mobilise

    dont get me wrong i love thrall but he can be too passive sometimes

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PvPisthelifeforme View Post
    While not a child, he is quite young compared to other leaders/former leaders within the Horde.

    As for the gun analogy, that is perfect, and it begs the question of why Thrall would place that much power in a hot-headed buffoon that is Garrosh? (I like Garrosh as a soldier, but when it comes to the whole thinking thing.... yeah.... no.)
    I think in the end I have to agree that Baine, Cairne or Vol'jin would've been better choices, even if they're not orcs.

  9. #29
    Thrall is an idiot for passing the reins to Garrosh. He gambled his life's work on Hellscream and lost, now Cairne is dead, all of the other leaders apart from Gallywix (who has become something of a Garrosh fanboy) are pissed and the Horde is barely holding itself together. That much is on Thrall.

    That being said Garrosh alone is responsible for his actions. Theramore wasn't Thrall's fault and no amount of foresight would have told him it would happen. Nor would it have told him about Garrosh summoning demons, inviting the Blackrocks in or his intention to completely genocide his enemies. Garrosh is ultimately the one to blame and he'll be the one to pay for it.
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  10. #30
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    well you are, in fact, 100% correct, it is all thrall's fault. He wanted to hornor his lost friend, and gave his son to much power, saurfang would be the right choice, and he should have let garrosh train under him, or really just anybody else, to let him learn about the hornor beside on killing people.

  11. #31
    Warchief Felarion's Avatar
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    As i said somewher else. Garrosh is exacly copy of how blizzard imagine Grom in WoW if they didn't sacrifice him to Mannoroth. And yes, he's hot-headed, and blind. He think's he do his best for the horde, but he can't see that horde become divided because of him.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felarion View Post
    but he can't see that horde become divided because of him.
    Oh Im sure he sees it, he is just trying to close those divides with a hammer
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2012-11-10 at 10:02 AM.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  13. #33
    I kinda lost faith in Thrall when he left Gallywix in charge... after he enslaved his own Cartel and tried to kill Thrall. Still puzzling over that one. He must have been hit pretty hard on the head when he was captured by the Alliance or something.

    "There is a thin, semantic line separating weird and beautiful. And that line is covered in jellyfish." - Welcome to Night Vale.

  14. #34
    Legendary! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Might i remind you that Thrall really wanted to give Warchief to Dranosh Saurfang before the lich king chopped him in half. Hellscream was the 2nd choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Kneebasha View Post
    I kinda lost faith in Thrall when he left Gallywix in charge... after he enslaved his own Cartel and tried to kill Thrall. Still puzzling over that one. He must have been hit pretty hard on the head when he was captured by the Alliance or something.
    That is how the goblins work. Thrall knew that so he left him in change. Goblins only go up when the person above them is dead. (Which in alot of ways they kill them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vesker View Post
    Nor would it have told him about Garrosh summoning demons
    Sorry? WHAT? At no point the whole time Garrosh as been around he has never summoned demons. The ones in jade forest were forsaken thry were lead by a forsaken leader.
    Last edited by Airwaves; 2012-11-10 at 10:40 AM.
    Aye mate

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Kneebasha View Post
    I kinda lost faith in Thrall when he left Gallywix in charge... after he enslaved his own Cartel and tried to kill Thrall. Still puzzling over that one. He must have been hit pretty hard on the head when he was captured by the Alliance or something.
    To this day im still baffled by that decision

    so a guy who takes all your possessions, forces you into slavery, tries to murder you but then thrall decides well im sure hes learnt his lesson then lets him be your leader

    gallywix is a backstabbing moneygrubbing asshole

    er wait a sec i think i just realized why he makes the perfect goblin leader scratch what i just said

  16. #36
    Scarab Lord Miralynn's Avatar
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    I blame Thrall, absolutely. He should have known that Garrosh was a self-glorifying, hotheaded ass whose entire philosophy boils down to 'RAWR ORC SMASH ALIYUNSE!' He should have known that a gentle finger-wagging and 'now you be a good boy and listen to my buddies, K?' was about as useful as telling a four year old 'Now you keep out of that cookie jar I just set in your lap'.
    When asked about the role of women in video games, Samus Aran said, "..." - and then she blew up the planet. AGAIN.

  17. #37
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    It's not really Thralls fault. It are Garrosh his actions that made the Horde to what it is now. Thrall could've forseen Garrosh becoming 'evil' in the way he acted during the campaign in Northrend. but it was in a time of need he thought Garrosh was just what the Horde needed. Garrosh kinda 'betrayed' Thrall.

  18. #38
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    Yeah, Thrall is to blame and honestly as Alliance I really can't see him as a neutral figure.
    Expecially after reading Tides of War. He's apparently too busy to stop Theramore being nuked but he rushes in and is all "won't somebody please think of the children" when Jaina is about to do the same with Orgrimmar. He did us a favour in the end since that prevented the destruction of the Alliance fleet too, but he didnt know it.
    Last edited by mmoc785ca38ad1; 2012-11-10 at 01:19 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PvPisthelifeforme View Post
    Thrall made the mistake of giving to much power to the immature Hellscream. Garrosh is a deadly soldier ready to unleash on the Alliance, but when it comes to the whole position of Warchief that is a different story. When taunted by Garrosh in the events leading to Northrend, Thrall should have simply dusted it off, the way an adult does to a insult from a child.

    In the current state of things, I do not view Garrosh as doing wrong, I simply see with each error he preforms this being Thrall's mistake for giving the young Orc so much power over the people. What would have been best for Garrosh is to have him train under Saurfang, and turn the young Hellscream into a killing machine who could uphold honor.
    I think you're spot on. Garrosh deserves to be a killing machine, a badass like Saurfang. And he still can be, imo.

    As for your argument that Thrall is to blame. I think you and Blizzard think alike. I've heard Metzen say the same thing at Blizzcon before Cataclysm. Garrosh' storyline only served to deepen Thrall's storyline. Yes, Thrall is to blame for anything that goes wrong. Garrosh is too young and inexperienced to be good at everything, it was already expected that he would make mistakes.

    To go about and say Garrosh should die is stupid. With this logic, the majority of people who visit these forums would kill children who make mistakes as well. Or what about political leaders around the world who don't always make the right decision, would you want them dead as well? It's so stupid.

    Garrosh deserves more than to be killed in the last raid. He deserves to be on par with Saurfang in awesomeness. Maybe he isn't Warchief material, but he's surely a good warrior and he should lead the Warsong and be Overlord. In the pre-Cataclysm event that's exactly what he wished for instead of becoming Warchief, so yes, it is Thrall's fault. Let's blame Thrall instead of Garrosh. And trust me, I still like Thrall overall. I'm not a hater.

  20. #40
    Warchief Shadowspire's Avatar
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    Not gonna read every post here just gonna add my thoughts

    As far I can see it, the current state of the horde is on ALL RACIAL LEADERS fault. Why do I say this? I will gladly point it out.

    Fualt one.yes it is thralls fault that garrosh is in charge of the horde being aggressive with it, but normally this wouldn't be a problem..except thrall has ,sadly to say, weakened the horde to a state they think fighting is pointless. And on top of that he should have had check in with garrosh(I'm so not joking. Thrall kinda did the dad sink or swim thing...just a really bad way. And just so u know thrall could have taken breaks in between the maelstrom hell even Agra says this.there were other great shamans there with him)
    Next is garrosh himself . I won't blame garrosh for being over aggressive in times of WAR, shit needs to get done one "honorable" way or another. So telling every soilder to brush aside dreams of peace and to kill you're enemy is fair. (Plus lets not forget outside of undead and elves the other races are kinda in a shit hole of homes...that btw the alliance wanted to force them out of.) now what do I blame garrosh for, he can't talk peacefully with people In his horde. He only tried with two ppl. One used him as a puppet and the other acceding lay got killed because he called his bluff(carine and magatha) and basically every since garrosh basically learned he wouldn't get along with racial leaders he tries to find others that will obey him without question. (Th dragon maw,malkorok,etc) and the final thing garrosh isn't a strategist , which in all honesty isn't meant to be in his area..last I checked voljin was meant to be the planner along with carine...both of who gave him the middle finger on day one.
    Now to voljin. ...honestly I don't even know how to explain voljin..he claims he cares about the horde and his trolls but yet he just can't seem to grasp that this threatening and trying to prove that without him garrosh can't sustain shit isn't working..I mean really if you can't agree just stay the fuck away , don't rage quit just stay the fuck away.
    Sylvannas has a simple issue...she cares about her ppl but at the same time really really hates being on a leash and let's face garrosh is always trying to put her on one. Don't get me wrong at the end of the day I know he probably loves the fact he has a racial leader that can at least come close to doing as he ask but still making a fuss about each and every time gets annoying.
    Baine...he is just...fuck he is having a rommney effect( sorry kinda a joke and I do not want to offend any one.) one minute he is gun ho for garrosh the next minute he isn't ,rinse and repeat.
    Lothremar( hope I got tht right) he is loyal sure..but not loyal to garrosh but the horde...so basically what ever the majority vote is and what doesn't seem stupid he will be with..so he is kinda a 50/50 deal...


    That's my thought sooo yeah.

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