# Thread: Pi is out! Tau is in!

1. Troll logic

2 = 2 1's. Lets replace 1 with 2.

2. IMO after listening to this video about tau vs pi, is that its 100% unnecessary. He argues its easier to teach using tau instead of 2pi, well people have learned perfectly well for hundreds of years using 2pi so why would you need to change it? Using it as a substitute for 2pi like h-bar is also dumb since the reason we use h-bar is because it takes a long time to write h/2pi vs h with a slash through it. tau is already used for other variables like torque and repeating use of variables can make things confusing, no knowing whether someone is referring to 2pi or torque without digging into the derivation or having to define it all the time.

Also why not use 1 deg instead of 360 deg for a circle? Its only 1 rotation so it should only be 1 deg. Same argument, equally dumb.

3. Originally Posted by schwarzkopf
And as you know we define fundamental constants based upon observation, we don't define them on human activities.

I can tell you now - nature doesn't use a nail and a string to make a circle.
And yet your argument for diameter being more fundamental is based off of the human way to find the diameter.

Neither the radius nor the diameter are more fundamental than one another. The difference between the radius and the diameter is that the radius is thinking from the inside-out and the diameter is thinking from the outside-in. Neither is more correct.

Both will be used, there's no reason to 'replace' pi with tau.

4. Originally Posted by Twoddle
I wish Microsoft would add Math.Tau to the .NET framework.
Can't you just make your own class?

5. Fuzzzie, I love you and you know I love you, but if you try and replace pi, it will mean war.

6. This is essentially "inches vs centimeter".

One measurement system was specifically designed to be "better" and "easier to comprehend" than the older system.

Tau doesn't replace Pi. Tau is just a substitute.

7. Originally Posted by belfpala
I don't get it. Isn't that like saying, "Woohoo, Radius is out, Diameter is in!"
Yes yes yes. Exactly.

It's not a difference. At all. It's a scalar factor that just appears. Having less difficulty to understand circles with tau = 2*pi sounds like 8th grade to me (no offense).

Also, tau is (in engineering) commonly used for a shear stress tensor, or a characteristic time.

8. Originally Posted by Hurax
The original idea might be good but on a trivial complexity like 2*pi instead of tau? There are orther artefacts, where removing them would make teaching simpler: Speaking numbers in German and French (89=neunundachzig=quatre-vingt-dix-neuf, one is switched places and the other 4*20+19). USA and their archaic Imperial measure system, dodecimal would also be more practical than decimal etc...
My French has ten years of rust on it but I'm pretty sure the bold is actually 99 rather 89. This is a good example of why having more than one representation of a number can cause confusion. If this tau thing flies then I'm starting a movement to call the number four doubley duece because it will be more fun for preschoolers and they will be able to learn it easier.

9. Originally Posted by Whitepepper
My French has ten years of rust on it but I'm pretty sure the bold is actually 99 rather 89. This is a good example of why having more than one representation of a number can cause confusion. If this tau thing flies then I'm starting a movement to call the number four doubley duece because it will be more fun for preschoolers and they will be able to learn it easier.
That was just a test for you to see if you can still calculate 4*20+19 :P Yes, I botched it with my attempt to be clever to use one example for both ideosyncrasies, and changing it because 99 doesn't illustrate the first well.

10. Originally Posted by Whitepepper
If this tau thing flies then I'm starting a movement to call the number four doubley duece because it will be more fun for preschoolers and they will be able to learn it easier.
I'm ten squared percent behind the doubley deuce.

11. Originally Posted by belfpala
I'm ten squared percent behind the doubley deuce.
That's one deuce worth not dropping.

12. No way in hell, i already use both tau and pi in same formula in electronics (tau is time constant, pi is used for angular frequency). Also as mentioned, it's used in few other places (torque, time, i think also in relativity? etc). Also, it will make Euler's identity uglier, which is a big no-no.

13. Ok, I see the same (uneducated) arguments for pi/ not using tau. An example is of course that most of you don't understand enough math to see why it matters. You know the area of a circle, but not the area of part of a circle. The first function is A=πr2... but the other is (1/2)θr2 which is the general formula for any circle sector.

When you plug in π for a full circle you must use 2π which is one revolution. (1/2)2πr2 so only π is left. But it's only by chance. As with all integrated quadratic fulmulae the 1/2 is supposed to be there. The 2π for ONE revolution is silly. The correct formula is of course (1/2)τr2 which is just putting the angle of a full circle in the place of the genral angle θ. Learn integration.

In most all other situations it's apparent that τ is more suitable.

Also, schwartzkopf think the diameter is more fundamental than the radius. That would be the case to a five-year-old. But The radius is the arrow going outwards in one direction giving the scale while the diameter is made of two opposing radii. When π was invented, the radius was probably not thought of since there's no visual point in the middle of a circle.

If we used the diameter in trig, we'd have two clock-hands showing the angle at the same time. There's a reason radii are everywhere in math. π was invented before modern algebraic notation. The diameter is really not that useful at all. Also, the equation/definition of a circle is based on all points reached by the radius. (x - a)2 + (y - b)2 = r2

All of your confusions and upset minds are adressed in the Tau Manifesto.
tauday . com/ tau-manifesto

OH, and Eulers identity is much nicer with τ! Since e^(iτ)=1 (which return the complex number unchanged, 360 deg) instead of e^(iπ)=−1 which is the inverse (180 deg) of a complex number. Since the -1 is ugly, some write it e^(iπ)+1=0 and say, "Look, zero is also cool!" But one can add zeros anywhere like e^(iτ)=1+0.

14. I don't see what's logical about tau. It's pi that's natural.

15. alot of bla bla from this guy.... but he only show one side of the medal... dont let this guys f**k your head
"Tauists argue that by using the constant τ=2π a lot of formulas become simpler. Unfortunately, the Tao Manifesto is full of selective bias in order to convince readers of the benefits of τ over π. They pinpoint formulas that contain 2π while ignoring other formulas that do not. We demonstrate below that when making the change to τ, there are lots of formulas that either become worse or have no clear advantage of using τ over π. Tauists also claim that their version of Euler's formula is better than the original, but we will see that it is in fact weaker. The benefits of τ only appear when viewing π from a narrow minded two dimensional geometrical point of view, but these benefits disappear when looking at the bigger picture. We will see how the importance of π shines through as it shows up all over mathematics and not just in elementary geometry."
read the reasons against tau and close this thread pls
http://www.thepimanifesto.com/

tau will never replace pi and its good like this

16. Originally Posted by kamiko
[...]They pinpoint formulas that contain 2π while ignoring other formulas that do not. We demonstrate below that when making the change to τ, there are lots of formulas that either become worse or have no clear advantage of using τ over π. Tauists also claim that their version of Euler's formula is better than the original, but we will see that it is in fact weaker. The benefits of τ only appear when viewing π from a narrow minded two dimensional geometrical point of view, but these benefits disappear when looking at the bigger picture. We will see how the importance of π shines through as it shows up all over mathematics and not just in elementary geometry."
read the reasons against tau and close this thread pls
http://www.thepimanifesto.com/

tau will never replace pi and its good like this
Quoted for truth.
They need tau instead of pi because they're more comfortable not having to write and remember some 2s? My call then is that they lack the math skills to judge the usefulness (or lack of it) of using tau anyway.

17. The whole thing is just a publicity gag. He just wants his 5 minutes of fame...
Also, he's not the first one to come up with this idea. The scottish mathematician David Gregory is counted as the first to have used it and the guy died 1708.

18. Yeah, you think tau is less complicated, until you get shit like this:

19. why not say pi= 3.0
that would be so much easier.
POINT.LESS.

20. This thread's been dead for a while. No need to necro.

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