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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by rafmonk View Post
    With glyphed uplift, spamming surging, and you're full mana. Sure.

    oh did i mention im a tauren in real life? but with wings
    never mentioned that i'm using glyphed uplift or spamming surging, but just saying how it could be.

  2. #22
    i did some tests on PTR...
    with 17k spell power renewing mist tics for 7400 hp (at 23k spell power it goes to 8400) on live
    with around 20k spell power renewing mist tics for 5100 on ptr. ( its tics more but for less)

    and u need almost 10% haste(full buffed) to get it to tic one more time. what i could do with the 463 gear on ptr (reforging everything to haste)

    new smoothing mist sure helps a lot with the 35% chi generation(chi wasn't a problem)
    i couldn't get a mana tea generation critical, but for sure we will generate a lot more

    new icon for enveloping mists

    making some crude calculations. if u get to 10% haste renewing mist will healer a little more over time, but tics for less( so its is a 25% Nerf on it, since it just get to 3 target instead of 4) and automatically 25% Nerf to uplift...

    we will get a little boost to single target heal, but since enveloping mists is a HOT, u wont be capable of using it in less than 6s(its not useful as it should be)
    sorry for bad English, not my native language (use a dictionary correction to help a bit)

  3. #23
    i think the renewing mist and uplift does need a bit of a nerf, however i think if they are going to nerf our AOE to be in line with the other healers, they need to give us more utility.... as people have mentioned, our 1 raid CD is crap. our tank CD is crap.

    Id like to see them:

    -Change revival so it maybe a hot on the target healing say 50% more over 8secs after the initial burst
    -Change our aborb tank CD so it aborbs more, but even if it breaks, still gives us the bonus heals to hots, as ppl said, teh 200k aborb goes in 1 attack
    -Nerf renewin mists and uplift like they have.



    when u look at a monk compared to every other class, ye... their AOE healing is insane but only on certain fights, the other fights we're only slightly above the rest. And yet the other class's bring so much more in utility its not rly a "fair" balance



    im considering going back to my druid and ditching the monk after these changes... 20% dmg reduc on tank, stampede roar is very useful on a lot of encounters, gr8 mobility healing, better raid CDs, very good burst DPS to help with enrage on a lot of encounters... honestly druid AOE healing will probably only be around 10-20% lower than the monk, but will provide the raid with so much more. if the druid times his tranq and tree of life properly i dare say he can beat the monk on most fights

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathruler11 View Post
    i think the renewing mist and uplift does need a bit of a nerf, however i think if they are going to nerf our AOE to be in line with the other healers, they need to give us more utility.... as people have mentioned, our 1 raid CD is crap. our tank CD is crap.

    Id like to see them:

    -Change revival so it maybe a hot on the target healing say 50% more over 8secs after the initial burst
    -Change our aborb tank CD so it aborbs more, but even if it breaks, still gives us the bonus heals to hots, as ppl said, teh 200k aborb goes in 1 attack
    -Nerf renewin mists and uplift like they have.



    when u look at a monk compared to every other class, ye... their AOE healing is insane but only on certain fights, the other fights we're only slightly above the rest. And yet the other class's bring so much more in utility its not rly a "fair" balance



    im considering going back to my druid and ditching the monk after these changes... 20% dmg reduc on tank, stampede roar is very useful on a lot of encounters, gr8 mobility healing, better raid CDs, very good burst DPS to help with enrage on a lot of encounters... honestly druid AOE healing will probably only be around 10-20% lower than the monk, but will provide the raid with so much more. if the druid times his tranq and tree of life properly i dare say he can beat the monk on most fights
    After the changes I have no doubt. Monks were not ahead in 10 mans by any significant margin really.
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Gara%27ja...fault/#3o00000

    The changes to me has me questioning whether we will even be on par in 10 mans anymore.
    I hope they at least make RnM a little bit smarter when it jumps...

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Obamatheone View Post
    After the changes I have no doubt. Monks were not ahead in 10 mans by any significant margin really.


    The changes to me has me questioning whether we will even be on par in 10 mans anymore.
    I hope they at least make RnM a little bit smarter when it jumps...
    do u know that is a dps chart?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by oozaoru View Post
    do u know that is a dps chart?
    Yeah, holy paladins are doing 60,000 dps... *facepalm* Raidbots shows HPS for healers.

    Gara'jal is a terrible fight to do any comparisons on, because logging only catches people in the same 'realm' as the logger. This skews the dataset in strange ways. Also, healers have effectively infinite mana for a large part of the fight, so things can get really out of whack; I'm not surprised Shamans and Paladins have such high numbers, because they have powerful mechanics that increase single target throughput on spells they can't afford to spam normally. Plus, you'd need to see what Monk healers are doing on that fight to generate their HPS. If only some of it is ReM/Uplift, then only some of it is getting nerfed.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Obamatheone View Post
    After the changes I have no doubt. Monks were not ahead in 10 mans by any significant margin really.
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Gara%27ja...fault/#3o00000

    The changes to me has me questioning whether we will even be on par in 10 mans anymore.
    I hope they at least make RnM a little bit smarter when it jumps...
    Lol Gara'jal, you're funny. How about a fight without a ton of silly gimmicks and a decent amount of raid damage?

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Garalon/1...fault/#3o00000

    Oh.......... well then.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Lol Gara'jal, you're funny. How about a fight without a ton of silly gimmicks and a decent amount of raid damage?

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Garalon/1...fault/#3o00000

    Oh.......... well then.
    What a terrible example,

    How about this one,
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/The_Stone...fault/#3o00000

    or
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Feng_the_...fault/#3o00000

    These are more indicative or where we actually stand in 10 mans.


    If you are saying we will be on par on only those fights like Garalon, then what about the ones that don't favor our mechanics that much. You know, like most of the other fights. That means we suck ass on all the rest? This is balanced in your view?
    Last edited by Obamatheone; 2012-11-12 at 08:59 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Obamatheone View Post
    What a terrible example,

    How about this one,
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/The_Stone...fault/#3o00000

    or
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Feng_the_...fault/#3o00000

    These are more indicative or where we actually stand in 10 mans.


    If you are saying we will be on par on only those fights like Garalon, then what about the ones that don't favor our mechanics that much. You know, like most of the other fights. That means we suck ass on all the rest? This is balanced in your view?
    Don't get too caught up on the top 100 lottery winners or broken logs when you look at raidbots, particularly on easy fights where the top people are likely gimmicking their way to world rankings. Use all the parses. For example:
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/The_Stone...fault/#fo00000
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/The_Stone...fault/#fo00000

    Monks are still, on average, significantly better than other healers on 10s, but it's not to the point where other healers can't be competitive. The changes being made don't even affect monks on 10 mans that much. ReM ticks will stay the same due to the haste buff. Single target healing has actually been buffed. Increased mana costs are counteracted by Ascension and Mana Tea changes. The only real nerf is that ReM transfers to one less target, which isn't going to send monk healing plummeting in a 10 man. You can still probably blanket ReM a raid and quadruple uplift with Chi Brew as your 2nd Revival if you really want to in a 10 man. It affects 25 man somewhat more significantly, which is where the change needs to be made.
    Last edited by DetectiveJohnKimble; 2012-11-12 at 09:25 PM.

  10. #30
    You can go from top 100 parses to all parses in the top right. Shows about the same shit.

    Only on fights like Heroic Will and Garalon are we significantly ahead.
    And if these changes brings us on par on these fights, then just how bad are we going to be on fights we are already just on par with?
    Last edited by Obamatheone; 2012-11-12 at 09:29 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Obamatheone View Post
    What a terrible example,

    How about this one,
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/The_Stone...fault/#3o00000

    or
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Feng_the_...fault/#3o00000

    These are more indicative or where we actually stand in 10 mans.


    If you are saying we will be on par on only those fights like Garalon, then what about the ones that don't favor our mechanics that much. You know, like most of the other fights. That means we suck ass on all the rest? This is balanced in your view?
    Those two fights barely have enough damage doing on for healing to even be an issue. Most normal mode bosses in MSV have almost nothing going on, and as you should know if you want to talk about healing balance, HPS numbers when no one comes even close to dying are irrelevant because there's likely to be a ton of overhealing. If you cycle through most of the 10 man heroic fights or 10 normals in HoF (which typically has much higher healing constraints than MSV), you'll see Mistweavers 10-15% higher than any other healer on average. If you want to believe that Monks are getting nerfed to the ground for 10 mans, you have a right to hold that opinion, but you'd still be wrong.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Protip: SCK isn't being nerfed. The RM (and by extension, Uplift) nerf also barely touches 10 man. To assume that the nerfs would amount to 20% of your healing is silly, less than 20% of your healing would have to have come from Eminence (Xuen alone is usually 5%), single target heals, Revival, and you'd have to assume that you're getting the full 25% reduction on RM and Uplift, which just isn't true. You're assuming a lot worse numbers than it is in reality, Mistweavers will still be fine.
    So what you are saying is the non-nerf to SCK will impact the nerf to 25m Less than to 10m. Great.

    While 20% is overestimate, we're clearly talking 10-15% (ReM+Uplift rarely account for less than 50% of my total healing) on average encounter and probably close to 20% on most heroic or heavy aoe encounters. The bigger part though is that it's really hurting our utility in 10m. That is to pickup seemingly everybody at once with some small burst aoe healing when it matters.

    I'm not saying we'll become useless but the main point is that our utility is god awful compared to every other healer class to the point where if our raw healing # are the same, we will slowly get pulled out of the portrait.

    In all honesty though I'd rather see our utility brought up and healing brought to par so that we eventually become doable in PvP and Challenge Modes. I'm just not seeing any utility improvement as of yet nor even any aknowledgement that it's bad.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Those two fights barely have enough damage doing on for healing to even be an issue. Most normal mode bosses in MSV have almost nothing going on, and as you should know if you want to talk about healing balance, HPS numbers when no one comes even close to dying are irrelevant because there's likely to be a ton of overhealing. If you cycle through most of the 10 man heroic fights or 10 normals in HoF (which typically has much higher healing constraints than MSV), you'll see Mistweavers 10-15% higher than any other healer on average. If you want to believe that Monks are getting nerfed to the ground for 10 mans, you have a right to hold that opinion, but you'd still be wrong.
    I accidentally clicked on normal because you were on normal. When you switch over to heroic it doesn't change much though, maybe 10% ahead at best on most fights.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathruler11 View Post
    im considering going back to my druid and ditching the monk after these changes... 20% dmg reduc on tank, stampede roar is very useful on a lot of encounters, gr8 mobility healing, better raid CDs, very good burst DPS to help with enrage on a lot of encounters... honestly druid AOE healing will probably only be around 10-20% lower than the monk, but will provide the raid with so much more. if the druid times his tranq and tree of life properly i dare say he can beat the monk on most fights
    Actually druid has the versatility on it's AoE healing. The issue is giving up tree form for better aoe healing but hey I don't even get to pick between an extra burst cd over raw aoe healing as MW.

    Soul of the Forest + Wild Growth (glyphed) Has an outstanding aoe hps synergy especially once 4pc t14 will be frequent (although any rdruid doin some pvp should consider running 4pc pvp because 30s ironbark and -2s on swiftmend are OUTSTANDING for PvE atm).

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