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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Theangryone View Post
    The problem is you are still confusing mandating people to purchase insurance with healthcare. Most Americans would not oppose a clear and concise plan that did not force it down their throats. The problem is that during the 2008 election President Obama promised transparency. He promised an end to omnibus spending bills. He promised that no bill would be voted on that Americans did not have the ability or opportunity to read first. That is not what we got with the Affordable Care Act. This was not something that should have been shoved through Congress at breakneck speed. The way and speed with which it was handled is what has contributed to much of the anger. The question remains though, if you have insurance it is supposedly not going to change, if you dont want it you will be progressively taxed each year till you pick up insurance, but if you are poor then you are exempt from the bill and the fines. So if this is about the poor and insurance and the poor are exempt, then what is the point? If this was truly about healthcare and not insurance, wouldn't it have been better to tackle tort reform? How about paying for doctors and nursing students to go to school in return for working at government run clinics instead of trying to regulate insurance and who has it.

    The original draft of the 1935 Economic Security Act, which established the Social Security Administration was 64 pages
    The original Medicare Act-28 pages
    The Civil Rights Act of 1964 - forbidding discrimination based on race and sex: 8 pages
    Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act 415 pages
    Affordable Care Act-961 pages + 1093 pages of new regulations
    Poor people get plan at significantly reduced rates or they are eligible for expanded medicaid coverage from the states for free. It also prevents insurance companies from dropping you because you have an expensive medical condition. These are the 2 major improvements to the previous system.

    Saying that the Democrats forced it upon the country since no Republicans voted for it is a bad argument. After the 2008 election many Republicans aid they would do anything to prevent a 2nd Obama term and not work with the Democrats at all. So they basically refused to pass a bill bipartisanly for a healthcare system that was created by Republicans in the 90s, implemented by a Republican governor in Mass, and is a massive boon to insurance companies (Republicans lov big business) just because they dont like Democrats and forced them to pass the bill without them.

    Also how is the president supposed to limit the size of bills written by congressmen and senators? If he even said this in the campaign it is your fault for believing it since it isnt possible for him to do that.

  2. #382
    Bloodsail Admiral ImpTaimer's Avatar
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    Pizza Hut! Pizza Hut! Pizza Hut!

    (I like Little Caesar's too, don't tell anyone.)

    Shouldn't the government or some organization be stepping in and saying "No you can't fire people because you're a hypocrite."?

    I wish. Just don't buy the pizza.
    There are no bathrooms, only Zuul.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    Poor people get plan at significantly reduced rates or they are eligible for expanded medicaid coverage from the states for free. It also prevents insurance companies from dropping you because you have an expensive medical condition. These are the 2 major improvements to the previous system.

    Saying that the Democrats forced it upon the country since no Republicans voted for it is a bad argument. After the 2008 election many Republicans aid they would do anything to prevent a 2nd Obama term and not work with the Democrats at all. So they basically refused to pass a bill bipartisanly for a healthcare system that was created by Republicans in the 90s, implemented by a Republican governor in Mass, and is a massive boon to insurance companies (Republicans lov big business) just because they dont like Democrats and forced them to pass the bill without them.

    Also how is the president supposed to limit the size of bills written by congressmen and senators? If he even said this in the campaign it is your fault for believing it since it isnt possible for him to do that.
    For starters, I am from Illinois and do not believe anything politicians say, especially the politicians from here. The transparency that was promised by then Candidate Obama was championed by the rest of the Democrats as they were going to change the way Government business was done. Democrats at the time of the bills passing were close to a super majority in the congress and could have done as they pleased so there was no rush.

    No one has denied that the Affordable Care act was modeled after the Massachusetts plan, but if you look at it there prices went up initially before settling a bit and cheaper plans for small business owners have not showed up as originally promised.

    As far as the 90s goes, the individual mandate at the time was supported b 19 republican senators and was a voucher program for the poor as an alternative to Clinton's plan which would have required all employers to provide healthcare for their workers. Ironically, the mandate was opposed by liberal Democrats at that time.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Theangryone View Post
    For starters, I am from Illinois and do not believe anything politicians say, especially the politicians from here. The transparency that was promised by then Candidate Obama was championed by the rest of the Democrats as they were going to change the way Government business was done. Democrats at the time of the bills passing were close to a super majority in the congress and could have done as they pleased so there was no rush.
    They had public "town hall" meetings all over the country for people to talk to congressmen about the new healthcare law. I dont know of any other legislation that has had that kind of public discussion before being passed. The problem was that a lot of these meetings were hijacked by conservatives that mis-informed seniors about losing Medicare and sometimes just yelling at politicians so nothing could get done (started the whole tea party movement made up of people angry about stuff that wasnt even happening). Also they had a supermajority, but only for 2 years and it could take a long time to get anything done without concentrated effort which is what you saw with healthcare.

    We dont really know the entire effect of the law yet because it is not fully implemented.

    I would have preferred true universal healthcare but Obamacare is better than nothing.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by MKing View Post
    The funny thing is some CEOs are seriously considering leaving the country with their businesses. You think our economy is bad now, wait til all the big companies leave to china or elsewhere, everyone will still be buying their products and their money won't be going into the United States, that can't last long.
    Err...what? USA/West's economy won't be destroyed by China, that's hyperbole.

    So, I am completely wrong in seeing many economists completely laughing at this ridiculous scenario, and instead explaining that the USA will do what Europe has done, and instead offer something that China cannot offer? Basically high-priced precision engineered items such as luxury cars and whatnot. UK lost pretty much all its textile/manufacturing industries in the 80s, and instead offered something that China doesn't have, which is highly educated specialists.
    Cannot remember the name of the economist that explained it all (was a BBC documentary) but he basically laughed off the morons stating that "CHINA IS DESTROYING THE WORLD!" etc, with a breakdown in quite in-depth detail of how countries slowly shift their specializations. UK for one, has gone into R&D for other countries, along with precision engineered machines (military R&D, car manufacture etc), then the companies with the industrial powerhouse make it.
    Seems to be working for UK and the rest of the EU so far, and USA would be well to go on instead.
    Also, slight little issue witht he rant about that your missing here. It's not in China's interest at all for USA/EU to go bankrupt, as funnily enough, we are the major purchasers of most of their products (low costs, high volume stock). We stop buying, they don't sell, and they go out of business.

    CEO's only leave countries when they consider it unprofitable for them personally for their business, either due to increased tax or just personal greed to reward shareholders more. But leaving a country isn't all it's cracked up to be, and under many different regulations, you can Transfer Price anyways if your corporation is large enough anyhoo, thus lowering tax paid. Something many companies (especially Starbucks/Google) do regularly. It's just scaremongering bulls*8t by CEO's attempting to scare politicians into doing what *they* want, which imo is very wrong.

  6. #386
    The Lightbringer KingHorse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Yes, they are. I've seen Republicans here and elsewhere condemn the anti-science positions of Republican politicians. I've seen Democrats here and elsewhere condemn the foreign policy and authoritarian "anti-terror" policies of Democrat politicians. Are people doing enough? I'd agree they're not. Are they too partisan? I'd agree that they are. It's not an all or nothing switch though, and there's plenty of individuals that aren't just cheerleaders.
    Nothing wrong with cheerleaders.
    I don't argue to be right, I argue to be proven wrong. Because I'm aware that the collective intelligence of the community likely has more to offer to me by enlightening me, than I do to an individual by "winning" an argument with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    I don't always wear tennis shoes, but when I do, I speak Russian. In French.

  7. #387
    Legendary! SirRobin's Avatar
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    I found a solution!

    Papa Johns saves the money they've been spending on text messages, and spends it on health insurance instead.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  8. #388
    Mechagnome vastx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    Because he has a sixth yacht to buy.
    Yes....!!! Be angry and envious of those with more than you. Such an easy emotion to manipulate.

  9. #389
    I think he was trying to make the point that Papa John's is manipulating people so he can earn more money.

  10. #390
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Pizza Hut > Dominos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Papa Johns
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  11. #391
    the funny thing is, the CEOs blame obama care - but lets not forget it was the banking ceos that put us in this financial crisis, but I imagine a lot of you are to young to remember

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    I found a solution!

    Papa Johns saves the money they've been spending on text messages, and spends it on health insurance instead.
    Just another example of big government spending that's out of control. Oh wait...

  13. #393
    $5 says they'll just give themselves million dollars bonuses at the end of the year for a job well done instead of employing people. Good ol job creators, doing a fine job.

  14. #394
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    It's pretty crummy. Definitely vastly inferior to Domino's since their revamp. I mean, Papa J's isn't inedible or anything, but that's just because it's still pizza.
    I personally enjoy Papa Johns more than any other pizza I've head in the US, apart from a tiny pizza place/music bar near the center of Columbus.


    As for blaming the election on this, hopefully the majority of the US knows to take this with a grain of salt. Its a good thing that companies are being influenced to stop profit maximization when it comes to employee health.
    “A fool is not a person who does not know something. Rather, a fool is a person who is given information but who chooses to ignore what he is given based on how he wants things to be, rather than how things are."

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    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  15. #395
    The Lightbringer Naxere's Avatar
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    People are surprised by this? If you increase the costs of doing business, it's usually the customers or the employees (or both) who pay the costs.

  16. #396
    If we had zero regulations we would have slaves again. Human greed knows no limits - none. Child slaves, no problem. If there is no law to stop the greedy bastards they would do everything to maximize their profits. And they are whining all the time. When there was slavery they where whining about the price of slaves they had to pay. Do not listen to them. Use common sense. The beast capitalism needs a firm hand or it will eat you.




  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Waaldo View Post
    What a bunch of children. If Romney got elected the same thing would be happening.
    No because obama care would go out the window. WHy are liberals so blind. If you force a company to pay health care for all its employees that money doesn't come out of thin air. They are going to cut their labor force to make up the difference. It will happen in every company. Papa johns is just the first. Which means of course that unemployment will continue to rise until four years from now its over 40%. And the democrats and liberals will still blame bush regardless that obamas been in control for 8 years. First 4 years unemployment rose from 9% to 20% because of obamas policies. It will continue under him guaranteed because his policies dont work

  18. #398
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daftone View Post
    . First 4 years unemployment rose from 9% to 20% because of obamas policies. It will continue under him guaranteed because his policies dont work
    And your source for this is... what exactly?
    “A fool is not a person who does not know something. Rather, a fool is a person who is given information but who chooses to ignore what he is given based on how he wants things to be, rather than how things are."

    General Off-Topic Forum Moderator
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by ImpTaimer View Post
    Pizza Hut! Pizza Hut! Pizza Hut!

    (I like Little Caesar's too, don't tell anyone.)

    Shouldn't the government or some organization be stepping in and saying "No you can't fire people because you're a hypocrite."?

    I wish. Just don't buy the pizza.
    Pizza Hut turned to shit in the late 90s.

    I don't know how on earth this happened, but as far as big-chain pizza goes, Dominos is king.

    I'm not going to say their pizza is an award-winner... but it's far and away the best big-chain pizza you can get.

  20. #400
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    You people are your pizza chains. Local/homemade or bust!

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