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  1. #741
    Poor people love imagining that if they just had more money, all their problems would go away.
    To be fair to a fairly significant extent they are correct. When you're poor your concerns tend to revolve around stuff like "will I make rent".
    In reality, most poor people are poor because they manage their money so badly that there's nothing in the bank when adversity strikes.
    I'd love to see what you're basing the bolded on.
    I really believe that if everyone were good at managing their money then the wealth distribution wouldn't look anything like the top quintile holding 93% of the wealth.
    I don't think blaming the poor for the rich getting richer and richer is really fair. Its not like the poor are the ones spending millions creating a government that is favorable to them in so many ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    That idea goes the other way too.

    Poor people love imagining that if they just had more money, all their problems would go away.

    In reality, the reason they're poor to begin with is usually that they're bad at managing money. Look at how many people win the lottery and go back to being grindingly poor in less than 2 years.

    In reality, most poor people are poor because they manage their money so badly that there's nothing in the bank when adversity strikes.

    I really believe that if everyone were good at managing their money then the wealth distribution wouldn't look anything like the top quintile holding 93% of the wealth.
    I have seen plenty who are poor and really bad at managing money but I have seen quite a few who are actually really good at managing money out of necessity but are flat out poor cause they are not offered any opportunities to earn any real money. I actually get comments on how I can stretch a budget further than anyone else but I am still poor as crap cause most jobs refuse to pay more than about $200 a week out here no matter what and I keep getting stuck with jobs that flat out don't make ends meet no matter what. Being able to eat off of $50 for 2 weeks without relying on ramen doesn't matter much when even at your best, it would take you 2 and a half weeks of pay just to pay for 1 months rent in a single wide trailer in a high crime area 12 miles from where you work, let alone the other expenses.

    Well, was nice talking to ya, but got to go. Later.

  3. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    To be fair to a fairly significant extent they are correct. When you're poor your concerns tend to revolve around stuff like "will I make rent".
    Well yes, those are the bulk of their problems. Those problems are usually derivative of their poor money management skills, though.

    I'd love to see what you're basing the bolded on.
    http://www.tnr.com/article/environme...-self-control#

    I don't think blaming the poor for the rich getting richer and richer is really fair. Its not like the poor are the ones spending millions creating a government that is favorable to them in so many ways.
    I'm not blaming anyone for anything.

    The rich get richer because they're good at being rich. There's nothing to love or loathe about that fact.

  4. #744
    You are seriously misrepresenting that article. Essentially what they're saying is that financial decisions are way harder for the poor because every choice involves giving something up in addition to money and that that constant exertion of willpower has an effect. Saying most poor people are poor because they're bad with money is just the same old "poor people are poor because they're dumb" with a nice new paint job. All the financial planning in the world won't do you much good when you're on minimum wage and find out you have cancer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  5. #745
    Pandaren Monk
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    Dominoes use to be ass but they had this thing a few years ago where they were super interested in feed back (I think 2008 or 2009). I guess they listened because the quality of their food is way way better.

    We don't have Papa Johns where I live in Canada but every time we ordered in when we went on Vacation in Florida it was ass. Just buy other pizza lol.

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    You are seriously misrepresenting that article. Essentially what they're saying is that financial decisions are way harder for the poor because every choice involves giving something up in addition to money and that that constant exertion of willpower has an effect. Saying most poor people are poor because they're bad with money is just the same old "poor people are poor because they're dumb" with a nice new paint job. All the financial planning in the world won't do you much good when you're on minimum wage and find out you have cancer.
    Ignore the catastrophic case of cancer as that's both rare and covered by the public under even current US law.

    Let's talk about a catastrophe that isn't covered. Say your car gets totaled by a falling tree branch and you don't have comprehensive coverage. That's catastrophic for someone earning minimum wage.

    What aspects of this person's life that they're in control of could have been done differently?

    Could they have worked a second job? Lived in cheaper living accommodations? Spent less on cigarettes? Gone to the bar less?

    The poor are more likely to eat at fast food joints and smoke than someone who's better off. I find it difficult to reconcile the fact that it's cheaper to NOT smoke and eat fast food (instead brown-bagging a lunch) with the idea that the poor aren't any worse at decision making than the not-poor.

  7. #747
    Ignore the catastrophic case of cancer as that's both rare
    Medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy.
    and covered by the public under even current US law.
    Depends on your state. Medicaid ain't exactly generous and you can be pretty badly off and still not qualify, especially if you live in a GOP state.

    I don't really care about what you can personally reconcile Laize, I care about data and testable claims. Are poor people often bad with money? Sure. Are most people who are poor that way because they're bad with money? Even if that's actually a testable claim its not one you'd defended.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  8. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrulerxxx View Post
    You can't be mad for companies wanting to make profits, that's how business works. you vote for obamacare, expect the shitstorm to be happening.
    I'd think better of his excuse if he wasn't proposing a 14 cent per pizza rise to cover a 4 cent per pizza contribution. In the same vein, he gives away 30 million dollars of pizza every year. Maybe if he cut back a little, he'd be able to afford the 8 million or so he'd need for Obamacare.

    EJL

  9. #749
    The Lightbringer Vizardlorde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy.

    Depends on your state. Medicaid ain't exactly generous and you can be pretty badly off and still not qualify, especially if you live in a GOP state.

    I don't really care about what you can personally reconcile Laize, I care about data and testable claims. Are poor people often bad with money? Sure. Are most people who are poor that way because they're bad with money? Even if that's actually a testable claim its not one you'd defended.
    Yup medicare is kinda tough to get if you are not extremely poor
    I live in a family of 4 with 2 working adults a mooching student (me) and a child with and income of roughly 50k to 70k a per year( including commissions) . A year and a half ago my mother was involved in a horrible chain car accident in which she did not cause or contribute to in anyway (she was the last person hit) and her bones in her left arm were splintered to smithereens. Her car insurance pays her 10 grand the 2nd insurance involved paid 10 grand and the guy who caused everything had an expired insurance and only got a couple of fines. Because of the 20k recieved from insurances mom did not qualify for emergency medicaid. And she received a 135k medical bill for everything from the pain killers to the surgery. If it werent for the kindness of the doctors and the hospital my family would be in deep shit right now.
    Can you believe it? My ISP is amazing, look

    Oh yea i forgot there was a 0. in front of the 8 ... internet service in America sucks.

  10. #750
    I used to work at Papa John's as a delivery driver when I was young and hadn't graduated from high school. I was paid pennies for gas mileage (some crazy low rate that equated to about half the cost of gas) and minimum wage plus whatever I made in tips. The managers somehow never seemed to understand in both high school and later in college that when I gave them my schedule of workable hours, it meant that I COULD NOT WORK the hours I did not put down, and would go ahead and sign me up to work in the middle of classes and then wondered where I was when I didn't show up for my shift.

    I always admired Papa John for his "came up from nothing" business but after his latest temper tantrum when Papa John's is making record profits and whining that he has to raise prices of pizza to pay for employee health care, I've lost all admiration for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Unfortunately for you, dictionaries are not authorities on the definitions of words.
    Ezekiel 23:20, Ezekiel 16:49-50, Mark 10:25, James 5:1-6, Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 19:21, Numbers 5:11-31

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy.

    Depends on your state. Medicaid ain't exactly generous and you can be pretty badly off and still not qualify, especially if you live in a GOP state.
    I can't speak for all states, but I lived the exact scenario you laid out (Cancer and near minimum wage with no insurance) when I was 22. I am neither bankrupt nor poor. So you'll forgive me if I, at least in NJ, have difficulty believing that medical costs have a legitimate reason for being the #1 cause of bankruptcy beyond people making shitty decisions.

    I don't really care about what you can personally reconcile Laize, I care about data and testable claims. Are poor people often bad with money? Sure. Are most people who are poor that way because they're bad with money? Even if that's actually a testable claim its not one you'd defended.
    Just what, exactly, would convince you of this?

    There's certainly no SYSTEM keeping poor people poor. No one (except payday loan originators) have an INCENTIVE to keep poor people poor. Avoiding the clusterfuck of things like low-balance charges at banks and other things "designed" to keep people poor isn't that difficult.
    Last edited by Laize; 2012-11-16 at 12:29 AM.

  12. #752
    I can't speak for all states, but I lived the exact scenario you laid out (Cancer and near minimum wage with no insurance) when I was 22. I am neither bankrupt nor poor.
    Personal anecdotes don't change the leading cause of bankruptcy nor do they fill the holes in our social safety net.

    I think you linked the wrong page.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    No one (except payday loan originators) have an INCENTIVE to keep poor people poor.
    And even they only want people to experience short term financing problems.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Personal anecdotes don't change the leading cause of bankruptcy nor do they fill the holes in our social safety net.

    I think you linked the wrong page.
    I never said medical bills weren't the leading cause of bankruptcy.

    I said there was no good reason they're the leading cause.

    If you're poor and your life is in jeopardy, you're covered. If you're not poor and you didn't buy insurance, you made a bad decision.

    The only scenario in which this does not apply is if you're poor and do not have a life threatening condition, in which case if it prevents you from working you're covered by SSI and Medicare.

    You're right, I did link the wrong page. Here's the correct one.

  15. #755
    I said there was no good reason they're the leading cause.
    I agree. Our health care system costs far too much.
    If you're poor and your life is in jeopardy, you're covered.
    If you show up at a emergency room they're stabilize you. That doesn't mean they give you the treatment you need.
    If you're not poor and you didn't buy insurance, you made a bad decision.
    Or you were one of many who was not poor and couldn't afford insurance still.

    Can you fix your link from the last post please?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Despicable human being if you ask me.

    Plus, he lied about how much he needed to increase Pizza prices to offset the costs with health insurance (Forbes did an article about it).

    Laying off people and reducing hours to save FIVE cents per pizza? Seriously, wouldn't it have been much more just to the employees to just keep them as they were, get the health insurance and raise pizza prices by said 5 cents? It would even be a good PR move, imo. Who would mind paying a nickel more if you know it'd help all those employees keep their jobs and insurance?
    I would gladly (and probably unknowingly) pay 5 cents more for a pizza. Just not his pizza. I dont even think its worth 5 cents in the first place. Anyway, f this guy and his company. Ill go get my pizza somewhere else. The only reason at this point to buy his pizza is to show support for the employees, but since he gets money from that too I am conflicted.

  17. #757
    I am not sure why liberals are so upset about this... this was promised long ago.
    Free-To-Play is the future.

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Why doesn't the CEO just take a smaller piece of the pie, which still ends up being an incredibly huge piece of pie. Wouldn't that be a smart business decision?
    In the long run yes, but sadly the business world does not work that way it is all about instant gratification and maximizing profits now, especially once a company gets involved with the stock market because you end up with thousands of extra hands digging into the pie most of which are receiving a very small portion and wanting more.

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    I am not sure why liberals are so upset about this... this was promised long ago.
    I wouldn't say "upset" is an accurate term so much as feeling sorry for PJ employees which are exploited for their labor just like every other corporation chain. That and laughing at the temper tantrum he's throwing over Obama being reelected. The price raise has nothing to do with Obama being reelected, but Papa John is throwing a temper tantrum and using it as a scapegoat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Unfortunately for you, dictionaries are not authorities on the definitions of words.
    Ezekiel 23:20, Ezekiel 16:49-50, Mark 10:25, James 5:1-6, Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 19:21, Numbers 5:11-31

  20. #760
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Local is the way to go. I live outside New Haven and we have the best pizza in the country (/deathstare nyc).

    I would gladly pay 20 cents extra per pizza knowing that each employee has health insurance. They could raise prices and people wouldn't even know.
    Being born and raised in CT, and now being stationed in NY due to being in the Navy I can agree with this completely from my experiences.

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