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  1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    I've never gotten why people think an administration in power for 8 years just stops having an effect as soon as someone else is in office.
    Clinton's legacy certainly hasn't, much to our detriment.

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    If you're going to say liberals just can't deal with how successful Texas is, you don't get to pull this shit of blaming its woes on illegal immigrants. It's special pleading. You can't just throw out a state's weaknesses and take all its inherent strengths, unless I get to throw out any economic gains from oil and natural resources that Texas had. After all, they didn't earn those, it's something they have in the ground.

    Red states are fucking terrible compared to blue states. Everyone knows this. If Texas is your success story, you don't have a success story.
    There this one state...

    it's big...

    it's blue...

    and it starts with C...

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Can anyone explain why California's poverty rate is 13.3%?

    Oh and Texas' poverty rate is down to 15.8%

    California's is up from 13.2%.
    I don't know what you'd like me to explain. Are you looking for a state by state breakdown? I'm the one claiming that someone can't deal with something. Should I use this (and GDP numbers) to say that conservatives just can't deal with California and New York being liberal success stories?

    For real, follow the flow the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  4. #1024
    I am Murloc! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Can anyone explain why California's poverty rate is 13.3%?

    Oh and Texas' poverty rate is down to 15.8%

    California's is up from 13.2%.
    So it went up .1%?

    LAWDY LAWDY, THEY DOOMED.

  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by cymraeg13 View Post
    Clinton's legacy certainly hasn't, much to our detriment.
    I'm not so sure you know what detriment means.
    It's LeviOsa, not LeviosAR!

  6. #1026
    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    There this one state...

    It's big...

    It's blue...

    And it starts with C...
    I'd change the topic too if I were in your shoes. Saying that Texas is the model for conservative success stories is pretty damned embarrassing if you're shooting to show that conservatism doesn't ruin everything it touches.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  7. #1027
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I'd change the topic too if I were in your shoes. Saying that Texas is the model for conservative success stories is pretty damned embarrassing if you're shooting to show that conservatism doesn't ruin everything it touches.
    So if we're comparing failures, California vs Texas should be a no-brainer.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The whole exchange started with you saying:



    The repeal of Glass-Steagel as it pertains to the ensuing crisis has nothing at all to do with this. In the future, try to not be spectacularly disingenuous when addressing me, I will call you out on your bullshit.
    You have called out nothing but bullshit of your own. The repeal of Glass Steagal is in great part responsible for the 2007 crash, which was blamed on Republicans by the left. These same failed policies have been continued by Obama - there NOW I've mentioned our current Marxist-in-chief.

  9. #1029
    The Lightbringer Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I see nothing in that link besides unordered test scores.
    Dear God. It's ordered by state. Can't you read?

    Even if we were top in the country, though, that wouldn't change the fact that we started overpaying our teachers and then took logic, reason and financial responsibility and set them on fucking fire as we began showering them with even more money.
    You get a superb education system that helps keep you rich and you think they're overpaid? Fuck it, pay them the levels of Mississippi. See what happens as your state becomes deeply impoverished as everybody moves away.

    So we came up with a crazy idea. We'd have teachers start paying 1% of their salaries into their pensions and some small percentage (I can't remember but it was something around 10%) into their health insurance (both of which were 100% subsidized prior) and agree to a pay freeze for one year. No layoffs, no slashed benefits or suspended pensions. All three unions involved threatened to strike (The teachers DID strike. Way to work for the kids, assholes.) and not a single one agreed to a pay freeze. So we now see stories spreading around the country how "one of the most crime filled states lays off cops and teachers".
    Then don't lay them off? How about you stop making them pay for more stuff they should get and did get? That's a bit of a shitty trick, expecting them to take massive theoretical paycuts. They have mortgages and lives, you know. Most people would revolt at 11% pay cuts.

    So even if we're #4, I'd be happier where fucking Virginia is. Happily chugging along at #6 and NOT staring down the pit of government bankruptcy. Oh and they're Right to Work, too.
    Eh, it's the area around DC giving them false statistics.

    And you know what? California spent even more than us on their teachers and THEY'RE bankrupt for the same reasons we are.
    Their education system has a whoooole bunch of shit to deal with, not the least some of the biggest numbers of immigrants in America and the gang problems. Education spending includes things like paying for police and security. I doubt Cali is actually substantially putting in more per person.

    Nevertheless, you found the one "blue" state and bang on about the one "red" state. Overall trends still show you very, very wrong.

    Why don't we ask Dacien how that's working out for their education system way down at #34.
    And ignore the teacher in number #49 who actually has the education and the statistics to prove his point. Are you sure you aren't anti-intellectual?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by cymraeg13 View Post
    Clinton's legacy certainly hasn't, much to our detriment.
    Lefties won't let you talk about Clinton.

    No matter how many times you explain that Clinton never paid down our gross outstanding debt, only borrowed from different sources they still refuse to admit that he didn't ACTUALLY create a surplus.

  11. #1031
    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    So if we're comparing failures, California vs Texas should be a no-brainer.
    Oh, absolutely. California has a higher per capita GDP, lower poverty rate, and is empirically better in many other ways. Indeed, your example of liberal failure is better than your example of conservative success. That seems improbable, but it's emblematic of how big the gap in success between the sets of ideas are.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  12. #1032
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Apropos of nothing real specific, I'd just like to note that a strong salary structure and a priority based hiring system would attract me to teaching science at a high school level, and I have Ph.D. in Microbiology/Immunology. The present system actively turns me away from teaching - I think we're doing something wrong with someone with a high degree of expertise in biology is effectively discouraged from entering teaching.
    And science has a strong salary structure? I have a PhD in cell and molecular biology, so dont try to bullshit me. Postdocs make less than teachers AND store managers at McDonalds, and R01 funding cutoff is at what now, like top 6%?

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    You're being ridiculously obtuse and I'm almost through talking to you because of it.

    If you can't see how the minimum wage was outpacing inflation and causing MORE inflation because of it then I really don't have anything more to say.

    Here's the historical inflation rates of the United States

    Please pay very close attention to years following the introduction of the minimum wage, years it was increased significantly, and especially the mid 70s to early 80s.

    Then look at what happened to inflation when we stopped practically doubling the minimum wage every 10 years.

    Well we always know right wingers likes to blame anything bad on the working poor i mean the crash in 2008 was created by poor people as well wasnt it?

    Just pointless to discuss with folks that think the weakest and the most vulnerable in the country is the reason anything bad happens.

    We have greedy folks pitching hizzy fits over 14cents on a pizza. It just shows what view of the world they have and it is all GREED GREED GREED and more GREED. And always blame the weakest and the most vulnerable. Even if we put min wage at 1cent the far right would still complain it is too high.

    And just want you to know Sweden have no min wage must be a good place for business i mean ZERO min wage but Sweden had 15% inflation in 1980 i know i was around at that time.

    And with no min wage laws in Sweden how come Sweden had 15% inflation you just said "" causing MORE inflation "" How can something a country doesnt have cause more inflation it is proof enough that blaming the poor is just the typical right wing scapegoat.

  14. #1034
    Quote Originally Posted by cymraeg13 View Post
    You have called out nothing but bullshit of your own. The repeal of Glass Steagal is in great part responsible for the 2007 crash, which was blamed on Republicans by the left. These same failed policies have been continued by Obama - there NOW I've mentioned our current Marxist-in-chief.
    I've seen some convoluted shit before, but claiming that Obama blamed the repeal of Glass-Steagall on Republicans is impressive.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Lefties won't let you talk about Clinton.

    No matter how many times you explain that Clinton never paid down our gross outstanding debt, only borrowed from different sources they still refuse to admit that he didn't ACTUALLY create a surplus.
    denial of facts, or like Romney said we cant let fact checkers get in our way. just disgusting how the far right constantly wants to rig and lie and cant stay on the facts. or like romney said we cant let fact checkers get in our way. THAT tells everything you need to know about the far right.

  16. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by cymraeg13 View Post
    And science has a strong salary structure?
    Not generally, no. I picked (sort of lucked into, but whatever) a reasonably strong postdoc position that has a better salary than most.

    Quote Originally Posted by cymraeg13 View Post
    R01 funding cutoff is at what now, like top 6%?
    This is among the reasons I have no desire at all to work in research going forward. The biggest reason is that I just don't enjoy it though.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  17. #1037
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    I think equating Grand Vizier Bar-Bar the Magnificent to Karl Marx should automatically disqualify you from any serious discussions on the topic.
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    I'm screen shoting this. If the measure is ever passed. You're comments will be my new signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Caring about Fox News is like caring about the special Olympics if the participants were members of an internationally maligned news syndicate filled with neo-fascists who care about family values.

  18. #1038
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Oh, absolutely. California has a higher per capita GDP, lower poverty rate, and is empirically better in many other ways. Indeed, your example of liberal failure is better than your example of conservative success. That seems improbable, but it's emblematic of how big the gap in success between the sets of ideas are.
    I think you should read up on California.

    And by read I mean, not Wikipedia.

    To say they are collapsing is an insult to the word collapse.

  19. #1039
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I've seen some convoluted shit before, but claiming that Obama blamed the repeal of Glass-Steagall on Republicans is impressive.
    Except I never wrote that, although I will admit to poor sentence structure. The 2007 crash was blamed on Republicans; remember context clues are your friend.

  20. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by cymraeg13 View Post
    Except I never wrote that, although I will admit to poor sentence structure. The 2007 crash was blamed on Republicans; remember context clues are your friend.
    You know what's not my friend? People that deliberately distort the meaning of what they wrote despite it being quite transparent. Really, the context is quite clear. Your little quip was quite obviously a jab at Obama. When you got called on your bullshit, you lacked an actual example of it, and it's led to this facade. I think I'm done with it, it stands on its own, and you look silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

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