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  1. #1101
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Collective bargaining reduces inefficiencies if conducted by one person/entity to represent the whole.

    Oh fuck, we can't reduce the whole world to economic terms.
    Yeah because it's totally efficient to "bargain" with a boss whose concern isn't the well-being of the state, but merely the educational system.

  2. #1102
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    The best people in a field aren't always the best teachers. The best teachers are also not those with the best knowledge of a certain field.

    Additionally, the output of the greatest minds is more highly valued in many private sector jobs than it is valued in teaching. So no, we shouldn't necesasrily have out greatest minds as teachers.
    I actually agree with this; however, we should damn well be trying to get "great" and "good" minds into teaching rather that "minimally adequate." Fostering a situation where more great minds can rise should always be encouraged.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  3. #1103
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    I actually agree with this; however, we should damn well be trying to get "great" and "good" minds into teaching rather that "minimally adequate." Fostering a situation where more great minds can rise should always be encouraged.
    Sure, but throwing money at the problem won't help. Other countries are getting much better results with much less money.

  4. #1104
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    How the fuck do you think NJ taxpayers feel when we're so onerously taxed we're experiencing brain drain as companies flee the state while the cost of living keeps going up?
    I don't know, I've never lived in NJ. And I don't see what that has to do with I said. In the comment you quoted, I didn't say anything about salary.

    But...

    I also live in a very blue state. It happened to have a Governor for 8 years who would not raise state taxes to cover a deficit he inherited. Fine. Trickle down is fun... because of that, local governments had to raise taxes to cover silly things like, idk, the fucking fire department.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    If anybody is thinking of buying me a gift I would much rather they just donate that money to charity instead.
    smoked turkey, brie, arugula, apples

  5. #1105
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Sure, but throwing money at the problem won't help. Other countries are getting much better results with much less money.
    I agree with this far more also. America needs a significant cultural and social shift to valuing education as a priority, respecting teachers and encouraging students to study.

    I personally don't think teachers necessarily need money thrown at them; most of us do it because we love it and we want reasonable compensation for the amount of school we had to go through to get here. But if we fail a student, then the student should stay failed no matter what pressure the parents put on the school and it should have no effect on how much funding the school gets too. Stuff like that drives us far more mad than pay.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  6. #1106
    I actually agree with this; however, we should damn well be trying to get "great" and "good" minds into teaching rather that "minimally adequate." Fostering a situation where more great minds can rise should always be encouraged.
    They need to work more on creating and enforcing standards to ensure quality.There also needs to be more competition, that always encourages development and improvement.

  7. #1107
    Here's to hoping that all the people who get released from Papa Johns go on to open their own pizza chains. It doesn't take much to make a better pizza than Papa Johns. I could do it and I'm a crap cook.

  8. #1108
    Quote Originally Posted by willjones410 View Post
    Here's to hoping that all the people who get released from Papa Johns go on to open their own pizza chains. It doesn't take much to make a better pizza than Papa Johns. I could do it and I'm a crap cook.
    Hallelujah, brother.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    If anybody is thinking of buying me a gift I would much rather they just donate that money to charity instead.
    smoked turkey, brie, arugula, apples

  9. #1109
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walexia View Post
    They need to work more on creating and enforcing standards to ensure quality.There also needs to be more competition, that always encourages development and improvement.
    It's nightmarishly hard to enforce standards for teachers because students drastically differ. I don't see how competition would work; teachers have to teach. You can't have up-and-coming teachers compete unless they too have jobs to be judged on.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  10. #1110
    DUDE. WHY WON'T YOU ADDRESS THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO MONEY TO KEEP GOING DOWN AN UNSUSTAINABLE PATH?!
    I have thought about this alot. I really wonder Where is the money to sustain us coming from right now, and if we can keep borrowing money without any consequence.If so.. then why not just keep borrowing ??We are already 16 trillion dollars in debt why don't we go for 32 trillion or even 60 dollars into debt....i mean if they didn't complain about us getting into the first 15 trillion why would they care?(ever).

    I hope you guys can see my reasoning here.This debt thing is beginning to look like an illusion.

  11. #1111
    Quote Originally Posted by walexia View Post
    I have thought about this alot. I really wonder Where is the money to sustain us coming from right now, and if we can keep borrowing money without any consequence.If so.. then why not just keep borrowing ??We are already 16 trillion dollars in debt why don't we go for 32 trillion or even 60 dollars into debt....i mean if they didn't complain about us getting into the first 15 trillion why would they care?(ever).

    I hope you guys can see my reasoning here.This debt thing is beginning to look like an illusion.
    Yeah... see we're paying $240 billion a year in interest when our debt level is "only" $16 trillion.

    If we keep borrowing people are going to get leery of our ability to pay it back and interest rates will rise.

    FYI 3% interest on $60 trillion in debt is $1.8 trillion a year. In interest alone. Nevermind paying off principal.

  12. #1112
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Well the alternative of allowing their representatives to negotiate their compensation hasn't been working so fucking well for the states of California and New Jersey.

    I think a law is in order that repeals public sector unions' collective bargaining rights and I'd rather eviscerate the education system for another year than see another round of raises on the highest paid teachers in the nation.
    Just terrible, i think a law is in order that forbids people like Romney to put all his money in tax heavens like the Caymans

  13. #1113
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    It's nightmarishly hard to enforce standards for teachers because students drastically differ. I don't see how competition would work; teachers have to teach. You can't have up-and-coming teachers compete unless they too have jobs to be judged on.
    The students may differ but the material remains the same.They all still need to understand certain principles and be able to express certain competencies to proceed.Some students will still fall through the cracks unless they get special attention.They can be identified through regular assessments and either help given to them or at least concern raised to their parents.Making sure everyone knows the national and state ranking of schools will help enforce standards of quality in schools.Having state inspectors to go investigate poorly performing schools will help identify where the problem lies.

    when i say competition, i mean that the whole society benefits from school competition.People will know which schools underperform.The horrible ones will improve.The top best schools will compete even harder while average shcools will strive and compete to enter the elite category of top performign schools.

    One school i know gave cash incentive to teachers, which made some(on their own volition)come at odd hours to tutor kids.The math teachers even took students performing below a certain index number and gave them some remedial classes.Must it always include cash?? it does not have to but it does provides monetary returns in some way, in that the better a school is , the more students and the more money it gets.
    Competition among students can encourage a better performance from kids and give them goals to work for.So as you can see competition is a multifaceted incentive that can be implemented in several ways.
    Last edited by walexia; 2012-11-17 at 11:22 AM.

  14. #1114
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    Just terrible, i think a law is in order that forbids people like Romney to put all his money in tax heavens like the Caymans
    Yeah... see... there's no way to remove money from the American economy without putting it under your bed.

    It doesn't matter if he fires $200 million into the Sun much less puts it in a bank in the Caymans. The money cannot be removed.

  15. #1115
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walexia View Post
    The students may differ but the material remains the same. snip
    But the students still differ drastically. The material can be badger-baiting, if you're given a class who've never heard of badgers while your neighbouring teacher gets the proficient fox-baiters, he or she will always succeed. Standardised testing will show that. It doesn't make them better or you worse and it doesn't mean you should suffer the consequences of administration.

    A lot of the other stuff is nice, but you forget American teachers already work far more hours than most of their counterparts. I certainly would consider some tuition if it was needed but it's because I choose to as a favour, not because I should or am morally obliged to.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  16. #1116
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Yeah... see we're paying $240 billion a year in interest when our debt level is "only" $16 trillion.

    If we keep borrowing people are going to get leery of our ability to pay it back and interest rates will rise.

    FYI 3% interest on $60 trillion in debt is $1.8 trillion a year. In interest alone. Nevermind paying off principal.

    Should have thought about that before you busted the surplus.

  17. #1117
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Yeah... see... there's no way to remove money from the American economy without putting it under your bed.

    It doesn't matter if he fires $200 million into the Sun much less puts it in a bank in the Caymans. The money cannot be removed.
    Wait... what?

    Somehow putting money under my bed is more destructive than launching it into the sun?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    If anybody is thinking of buying me a gift I would much rather they just donate that money to charity instead.
    smoked turkey, brie, arugula, apples

  18. #1118
    But the students still differ drastically.
    This is true, but arn't we all different ?What i mean by setting a standard is that for example you need to make sure your class can move from point A to point B, some of your students may strut like peackcocks , others may drag their feet as they dread the activity.but as long as they can make it to point B then they satisfy the criteria of the standard.
    The material can be badger-baiting, if you're given a class who've never heard of badgers while your neighbouring teacher gets the proficient fox-baiters, he or she will always succeed. Standardised testing will show that. It doesn't make them better or you worse and it doesn't mean you should suffer the consequences of administration.
    Despite whether or not your students are familiar with a subject, you have to teach them starting from the basics or gfrom the ground up irrespective of how many of your students are "well versed" with the topic.Your goal after all is to make a person who has never "baited a badger" become proficient in baiting badgers.If they know how toi do it then your job becomes easier ...but that does not mean you are going to have 100% of your class know exactly what to do.They should all know what badger baiting is at the end of the class session.

    A lot of the other stuff is nice, but you forget American teachers already work far more hours than most of their counterparts. I certainly would consider some tuition if it was needed but it's because I choose to as a favour, not because I should or am morally obliged to.
    You don't have to , unless your analysis of the students assessments shows they need the help.Even then some teachers ask for some form of compensation from the parent(private tutoring sessions) and some may just let the parent know that their kid may need help...but that your hands are tied and they may need to seek help from other private tutors.most parents will respond favourably though some really don't care that much.However if you have done what you need to do, then that should be great start for the country.
    Last edited by walexia; 2012-11-17 at 11:49 AM.

  19. #1119
    High Overlord Ycarene's Avatar
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    I sympathise with the employees affected, but if these executives want to cut their noses off to spite their faces, let them. The whole thing will bite them in the ass when they can't make their deliveries because they don't have the people to get done on time and correctly. (either in pizza or natural gas)

  20. #1120
    Quote Originally Posted by walexia View Post
    Despite whether or not your students are familiar with a subject, you have to teach them starting from the basics...
    It's just not that simple. In the school district I live in, 30-50% of students are sub-standard at English proficiency.

    How do you bait a badger in Spanish, Hmong, or Somalian? Yeah, I don't know either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    If anybody is thinking of buying me a gift I would much rather they just donate that money to charity instead.
    smoked turkey, brie, arugula, apples

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