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  1. #1181
    Over 9000! Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    I also have a next-door neighbor who had to drive to Mexico to get medical treatment for her husband's cancer. The reason is their current insurance refused to pay it for a ridiculous pre-existing loophole, and no hospital in America would take them in without the insurance.

    The husband eventually died... and she's now in the process of moving to Mexico.
    Friend of mine's wife had her ovaries removed, was an emergency surgery even. They released her from the hospital on the second day after the surgery. No insurance.
    I couldn't believe it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 01:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    yeah, that was my understanding as well. if i didnt know everybody involved and know this occurred for absolute fact i would honestly think there was something missing from the story or that it was made up. but yeah, they refused to treat and released him with a very large, very open wound. i dont know if this is any type of national trend, or if was a really horrible hospital in particular
    Not sure, but sounds like they could sue the hospital.
    I know frivolous lawsuits flooding this country. But this case is not one of them.
    It's a very valid reason, in my opinion.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 01:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    If people have the means to get the best treatment, even with a public option, Germany has the people that even the wealthiest chose to go to. It was an attempt to show that a public option does not lead to stagnation.
    No, on that aspect you are absolute correct.

    For myself, I trust the German docs more than the American docs. I feel more like a patient there, and not so much like a object of profits.

  2. #1182
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas
    *
    That was more-so in regards to our welfare systems. My apologies for clarity.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 02:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    i can tell you for an absolute fact that this is not accurate. a couple of weeks ago my cousin was hit by a hit-and-run driver in new orleans. the cops didnt bother to try to find the driver. the hospitals refused to treat him because he had no insurance. they actually released him, his dad had to drive down from tennessee to get him. the injury? his thigh was laid open almost to the bone from about 3 inches from his pelvis to about 2 inches from his knee
    New Orleans, by in large, is a shady place. Regardless, having been on the business side of healthcare all of my adult working life, hospitals are very aware of the law suits that occur from doing such things. So, either the example is exaggerated or your "friend" has a legitimate case and should contact a lawyer.

    My dad was recently (less than 2 months ago) in a motorcycle accident that cost him his right foot among other fairly serious injuries. By the time the hospital actually figured out he was medically insured (or even had money for that matter), he had been in trauma ICU for 4 days and had undergone multiple surgeries.

    edit: Misquoted.
    Last edited by jmt; 2012-11-17 at 08:28 PM.

  3. #1183
    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    i can tell you for an absolute fact that this is not accurate. a couple of weeks ago my cousin was hit by a hit-and-run driver in new orleans. the cops didnt bother to try to find the driver. the hospitals refused to treat him because he had no insurance. they actually released him, his dad had to drive down from tennessee to get him. the injury? his thigh was laid open almost to the bone from about 3 inches from his pelvis to about 2 inches from his knee
    http://www.emtala.com/law/index.html


    There is more to this story than we are hearing. It is illegal in a major way for anyone with a life threatening injury to be turned away and refused treatment. The law state that ppl will be evaluated, stabilized and may be transferred to another facility once they are stabilized. Perhaps your friend was evaluated and released because he did not need any medical treatment but as a nurse who worked in ER for more than 20 plus years I'm not buying it and your misleading ppl for some reason.

    To take it a step further it is actually, threat to life or limb which translates to injured.
    Last edited by Zigzagzoom; 2012-11-17 at 09:09 PM.

  4. #1184
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post

    For myself, I trust the German docs more than the American docs. I feel more like a patient there, and not so much like a object of profits.
    Something I found when I was considering either going to Germany or the US for my medical training was that overall, in Germany the medical system is far more personable. On all levels of the field, focus was put highly on the patient and fixing not only the presented condition, but the well being overall. You got the impression that the doctor cared about you because patient-oriented care is definitely the primary objective there. In the US, it is far more split; while I would never say that all US doctors are bad, there are a substantial amount who very obviously are either disease-state focused or even exploitative in their focus (Mercola being a perfect example of this).

    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

  5. #1185
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    Should have thought about that before you busted the surplus.
    There WAS no fucking surplus. It never existed!

    Look. It's right here.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...es_public_debt

    At no point during the Clinton Presidency did gross federal debt go down. PUBLIC debt went down because Clinton started borrowing from other sources.

    I'm not bashing Clinton because, for a Democrat, I thought he did a pretty good job. But no one deserves credit for something they didn't do.

  6. #1186
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Something I found when I was considering either going to Germany or the US for my medical training was that overall, in Germany the medical system is far more personable. On all levels of the field, focus was put highly on the patient and fixing not only the presented condition, but the well being overall. You got the impression that the doctor cared about you because patient-oriented care is definitely the primary objective there. In the US, it is far more split; while I would never say that all US doctors are bad, there are a substantial amount who very obviously are either disease-state focused or even exploitative in their focus (Mercola being a perfect example of this).
    Germany has 1+ more doctors per 1000 people than the US. I'm not saying that's the only factor for the difference in experience, but it's a major one.

    It would also result in a lower cost.

  7. #1187
    I am Murloc! Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    I am saying you are a full of shit. What do you win by pretending to be something you are not? It's what all this Obama crap is based on, imagination and make belief.
    Exactly my point. What do I win? Admiration and acceptance from a bunch of guys and gals on the internet who have absolutely 0 relevance to my life at all? You've kind of backed up my own point there ...

  8. #1188
    Bloodsail Admiral furydeath's Avatar
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    Healthcare cost way too much unlike 2 million free pizza.
    "We don't need Blizz to nerf the content. We need it to be less terrible." - Totalbiscuit

  9. #1189
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Wait... what?

    Somehow putting money under my bed is more destructive than launching it into the sun?
    If you put $200 million under your bed (or fire it into the Sun) the result is the same, $200 million is removed from the system and the remaining dollars become that much more valuable.

    If you convert your dollars into Cayman Islands Dollars, you're really just trading your dollars to someone else who's going to spend those dollars in America.

    You can't remove money from a system. The only entity that can is the Federal Reserve.

  10. #1190
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Exactly my point. What do I win? Admiration and acceptance from a bunch of guys and gals on the internet who have absolutely 0 relevance to my life at all? You've kind of backed up my own point there ...
    So arguing a valid viewpoint in a discussion doesn't matter at all if its in an online setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmt View Post
    Germany has 1+ more doctors per 1000 people than the US. I'm not saying that's the only factor for the difference in experience, but it's a major one.

    It would also result in a lower cost.
    Its a factor, sure, but the differing treatment focus is the prime reason for the difference here. Its distressingly common for people in the US to be prescribed things like blood pressure medication without being educated on life changes to help their blood pressure, or for diabetics to not be given training on diet and exercise. Things like this are far more established in Germany.

    The reason behind lower costs is extremely multifaceted, and in relation to other factors the proportion of doctors to patients isn't as important.

    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

  11. #1191
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Which one of the dozens of countries?
    The PIIGS?

    I like Switzerland. If I had to pick one European country to take cues from, it would be them.

    Guns everywhere and none of this single-payer nonsense. Oh and a policy of non-intervention in foreign affairs. I like that.

  12. #1192
    The rich want to stay rich and keep the poor, poor.

    It works for them 2 ways actually.. While they can in fact be rich, not even comparing them to the "poor".
    But if they also make it such a big gap between the 2, they will seem even richer, by comparison.
    "The truth, is limitless in its range. If you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse, it could hurt."

  13. #1193
    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    The rich want to stay rich and keep the poor, poor.

    It works for them 2 ways actually.. While they can in fact be rich, not even comparing them to the "poor".
    But if they also make it such a big gap between the 2, they will seem even richer, by comparison.
    The rich... have no incentive to keep the poor poor.

    They're only rich because people buy their stuff. What's there to be gained if no one can afford to buy things from them?

  14. #1194
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    The rich want to stay rich and keep the poor, poor.

    It works for them 2 ways actually.. While they can in fact be rich, not even comparing them to the "poor".
    But if they also make it such a big gap between the 2, they will seem even richer, by comparison.
    The reason why businesses do so well in the US is that, even now, its an incredibly strong economy. Its why China focuses on catering to the US instead of to its own people. Yes, corporations will push for maximizing profit to an extent, but ultimately they have a massive incentive to keep the US stable.

    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

  15. #1195
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    Quote Originally Posted by furydeath View Post
    Healthcare cost way too much unlike 2 million free pizza.
    Good point made here. Can't afford to pay a little more healthcare but gosh darn it, I'm giving away 2 million free pizzas and more!

  16. #1196
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    The reason why businesses do so well in the US is that, even now, its an incredibly strong economy. Its why China focuses on catering to the US instead of to its own people. Yes, corporations will push for maximizing profit to an extent, but ultimately they have a massive incentive to keep the US stable.
    Well sure! If I was living pretty well off, like the rich.. I'd want it to stay stable too.. Point is, that's pretty wrong.. I mean yeah, good for them.. But do the poor, want to stay poor, just for the sake of stability? Doesn't seem very fair to me.
    "The truth, is limitless in its range. If you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse, it could hurt."

  17. #1197
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    Well sure! If I was living pretty well off, like the rich.. I'd want it to stay stable too.. Point is, that's pretty wrong.. I mean yeah, good for them.. But do the poor, want to stay poor, just for the sake of stability? Doesn't seem very fair to me.
    The more money you have, the more you can buy. So the more people with money to spend in the US, the more companies make. A company profits more from richer countries than poorer countries, which again is why China caters to the US. So the rich don't want to keep the poor poor, its just that such economic disparity is a side effect of economic growth in the upper class.

    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

  18. #1198
    The Lightbringer Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    The PIIGS?

    I like Switzerland. If I had to pick one European country to take cues from, it would be them.

    Guns everywhere and none of this single-payer nonsense. Oh and a policy of non-intervention in foreign affairs. I like that.
    And building a nation on stolen Jewish gold, yummmm
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  19. #1199
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    And building a nation on stolen Jewish gold, yummmm
    Wow... I don't even want to start listing all the things wrong with that sentence (fragment).

  20. #1200
    The reason why businesses do so well in the US is that, even now, its an incredibly strong economy. Its why China focuses on catering to the US instead of to its own people. Yes, corporations will push for maximizing profit to an extent, but ultimately they have a massive incentive to keep the US stable.
    I think it's also the consumer culture here in the US, we have the best consumer culture in the world in that people will buy almost anything given little reason to, when compared to other countries.Not all countries celebrate Christmas and thanksgiving or birthdays the way america does where they buy gifts for themselves and other people ...and they have to get something which drives sales of useless things too.
    People here eat out alot too, people going out whole families at a time even to fast food joints, to celebrate anything from anniversaries to birthday parties really helps restaurants, and once customers are out of the house , it makes it more likely they will go shopping at other places along the way.They could just stay home and cook, or invite friends over instead, but they instead go out alot.

    There are several examples,but my conculsuion is that america has one of the best customers in the world.

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