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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Mass lay offs on speculation is stupid though. Especially when the GOP can cockblock anything in the House anyway.

    Look at Murray's political history, that's all this is.
    The reason he didn't lay them off earlier was because he speculated that Romney might've won and changed policy. The "sure" bet would've been to just lay everyone off. But instead he chose to pay some (pay wages for some extra months until election results were in) for the option to see what happens.

    And hiring decisions etc are all more or less speculation. You never know what the future brings.

  2. #142
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Why is there an assumption that Romney would be better on coal anyway? When he was governor he literally stood outside a coal plant and said "this plant kills."
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    that's basically extortion using the middle and lower class.
    Papa john's is essentially saying "if you don't change federal government policy according to my personal desires, the lower classes are going to pay for it by losing their jobs, i.e. their entire livelihood."
    No will to adapt, and too much power concentrated in the top ranks.
    No it's not. The federal government doesn't have to change policy. But the company has a right to postpone layoffs to see if the situation changes.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    that's basically extortion using the middle and lower class.
    Papa john's is essentially saying "if you don't change federal government policy according to my personal desires, the lower classes are going to pay for it by losing their jobs, i.e. their entire livelihood."
    No will to adapt, and too much power concentrated in the top ranks.
    It is his right to do that. Companies can refuse to hire Chinese workers for humanistic reasons but they cannot refuse to hire Americans for the same? It is his business and he has the right to protest the restriction of his and his company's rights. We have free speech in America and to vilify a corporation for exercising his rights to it is making you no better than him. If his actions result in a net loss to his company's worth, then another company will benefit. That is the beauty of the free market. Companies adapt or they get destroyed. If he made the wrong move by firing people, then his company will pay for it.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Why is there an assumption that Romney would be better on coal anyway? When he was governor he literally stood outside a coal plant and said "this plant kills."
    He was promising all sorts of shit to the coal industry if I recall correctly.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    The reason he didn't lay them off earlier was because he speculated that Romney might've won and changed policy. The "sure" bet would've been to just lay everyone off. But instead he chose to pay some (pay wages for some extra months until election results were in) for the option to see what happens.
    The amount of credit you're willing to give this guy is hilarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  7. #147
    High Overlord TecPontificates's Avatar
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    I can't believe how many people do not understand that companies do not owe jobs to anyone.

    Be the CEO, not the pizza delivery guy. Wait, you don't have what it takes to start a multimillion dollar national enterprise that affords you a 40,000 square foot home? Too bad. Stop demonizing the CEO just because you'll never be one. Stop whining like a petulent child.

    If Papa John wants to fire people to afford his life style, that is his right and his choice. His motives for doing so are irrelevant. If Obamacare costs his company money and affects his bottom line, he can and should counter it by increasing costs or reducing expenses like payroll.

    As others have said, there are very real and tangible consequences to electing socialists. If you had it in your head that wealthy job creators are simply going to voluntarily accept lower profits and diminished lifestyles because Barack Obama wants to give healthcare to everyone, you're a fool who does not understand basic human motives. I'll give you a hint: all humans are greedy. The rich CEOs want their yachts and by golly, they can afford them. The poor working class want health insurance, and since they can't afford it themselves, they'll use the magic of democracy to elect someone who will force the rest of the country to pay for it on their behalf.

    Put another way, greed (demanding health care on someone else's dime) is perfectly acceptable if you're poor. If you're successful and rich and you want to stay that way, then your greed is demonized. I believe in treating everyone equally, and that includes how I judge their ambition to get more for themselves. Greed is greed whether you're poor or rich.

  8. #148
    You go to bed in America....
    you wake up, fuck I don't even know where I am anymore.

  9. #149
    If Papa John wants to fire people to afford his life style, that is his right and his choice.
    Actually if they're a publicly traded company, which I think they are, its not. He's obligated to do what is best for the shareholders, not what's best for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by TecPontificates View Post
    I can't believe how many people do not understand that companies do not owe jobs to anyone.

    Be the CEO, not the pizza delivery guy. Wait, you don't have what it takes to start a multimillion dollar national enterprise that affords you a 40,000 square foot home? Too bad. Stop demonizing the CEO just because you'll never be one. Stop whining like a petulent child.

    If Papa John wants to fire people to afford his life style, that is his right and his choice. His motives for doing so are irrelevant. If Obamacare costs his company money and affects his bottom line, he can and should counter it by increasing costs or reducing expenses like payroll.

    As others have said, there are very real and tangible consequences to electing socialists. If you had it in your head that wealthy job creators are simply going to voluntarily accept lower profits and diminished lifestyles because Barack Obama wants to give healthcare to everyone, you're a fool who does not understand basic human motives. I'll give you a hint: all humans are greedy. The rich CEOs want their yachts and by golly, they can afford them. The poor working class want health insurance, and since they can't afford it themselves, they'll use the magic of democracy to elect someone who will force the rest of the country to pay for it on their behalf.

    Put another way, greed (demanding health care on someone else's dime) is perfectly acceptable if you're poor. If you're successful and rich and you want to stay that way, then your greed is demonized. I believe in treating everyone equally, and that includes how I judge their ambition to get more for themselves. Greed is greed whether you're poor or rich.

    ^^^^This. I would add that capitalism drives our greatest motive in life which is greed and morphed it into what drives a prosperous society

  11. #151
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    I love how often people decide that everything the people and government of this nation have put into making the CEO's success possible to begin with is easily ignored or dismissed. How about tangible consequences to taking advantage of the protections granted by anti-trust laws? How about taking advantage of the tangible consequences of all the taxpayer money spent on law enforcement and defense? Do they owe nothing to the nation that made their success possible in the first place? Would he have been just as successful and profitable if he had started his business in China? How about Russia?

    So maybe instead of complaining about the "socialism" that helped this country win the second world war and the cold war that followed... You realize that this nation has actually been socialist for a long time.
    Last edited by SirRobin; 2012-11-10 at 08:18 PM.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by One-Eyed Jack View Post
    That's the point though genius. The fact that Papa has to pay health care now is putting a strain on his business, making him less profitable. The sole reason of a business is to make money, not to help other people. By the way I'm libertarian.
    I'm not sure about the exact numbers but 14 cents per pizza was mentioned. If that is the case I'm sure his customers will pay the extra 14 cents to eat his unhealthy fast food pizza. I understand the profit part, I don't understand the actions he took, very childish. Like you said it's business don't cry just adjust to compensate and move on.

    I was all for Ron Paul btw.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    I love how often people decide that everything the people and government of this nation have put into making the CEO's success possible to begin with is easily ignored or dismissed. How about tangible consequences to taking advantage of the protections granted by anti-trust laws? How about taking advantage of the tangible consequences of all the taxpayer money spent on law enforcement and defense? Do they owe nothing to the nation that made their success possible in the first place? Would he have been just as successful and profitable if he had started his business in China? How about Russia?

    So maybe instead of complaining about the "socialism" that helped this country win the second world war and the cold war that followed. You pay attention instead?

    I owe nothing to no one. I only pay the cost to do business. I was dealt my hand in life and play by the same rules as everyone else. If everyone else is irresponsible and can't play to win the game that's there problem. If there irresponsible spenders, that's there problem. If the want to have multiple kids at the expense of living a less than luxurious lifestyle, that's there problem. Is the system perfect, no. But it damn sure is the best thing we got. I only owe to those to whom I actually KNOW and care about. No free handouts
    Last edited by One-Eyed Jack; 2012-11-10 at 08:21 PM.

  14. #154
    At least Peyton Manning bought like 20 Papa John's in Colorado a week before weed become legal. Smart man
    Quote Originally Posted by kasath
    is anyone in this group under 18? my parole officer says I'm not allowed to play wow with anyone under 18

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by TecPontificates View Post
    I can't believe how many people do not understand that companies do not owe jobs to anyone.

    Be the CEO, not the pizza delivery guy. Wait, you don't have what it takes to start a multimillion dollar national enterprise that affords you a 40,000 square foot home? Too bad. Stop demonizing the CEO just because you'll never be one. Stop whining like a petulent child.

    If Papa John wants to fire people to afford his life style, that is his right and his choice. His motives for doing so are irrelevant. If Obamacare costs his company money and affects his bottom line, he can and should counter it by increasing costs or reducing expenses like payroll.

    As others have said, there are very real and tangible consequences to electing socialists. If you had it in your head that wealthy job creators are simply going to voluntarily accept lower profits and diminished lifestyles because Barack Obama wants to give healthcare to everyone, you're a fool who does not understand basic human motives. I'll give you a hint: all humans are greedy. The rich CEOs want their yachts and by golly, they can afford them. The poor working class want health insurance, and since they can't afford it themselves, they'll use the magic of democracy to elect someone who will force the rest of the country to pay for it on their behalf.

    Put another way, greed (demanding health care on someone else's dime) is perfectly acceptable if you're poor. If you're successful and rich and you want to stay that way, then your greed is demonized. I believe in treating everyone equally, and that includes how I judge their ambition to get more for themselves. Greed is greed whether you're poor or rich.
    You understand how things work bravo.

    I don't understand why everybody thinks that companies and corporations are all evil and want to destroy the world and small business are better than them. Bottom line is they started out as small business too. Most small business dream to become successful corporations so their future generations won't have to work their ass off as a cashier.

  16. #156
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TecPontificates View Post
    As others have said, there are very real and tangible consequences to electing socialists.
    Obama is a terrible socialist. He's a free market corporatist.

    You probably think Obamacare is government run too, right?
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by TecPontificates View Post
    I can't believe how many people do not understand that companies do not owe jobs to anyone.

    Be the CEO, not the pizza delivery guy. Wait, you don't have what it takes to start a multimillion dollar national enterprise that affords you a 40,000 square foot home? Too bad. Stop demonizing the CEO just because you'll never be one. Stop whining like a petulent child.

    If Papa John wants to fire people to afford his life style, that is his right and his choice. His motives for doing so are irrelevant. If Obamacare costs his company money and affects his bottom line, he can and should counter it by increasing costs or reducing expenses like payroll.

    As others have said, there are very real and tangible consequences to electing socialists. If you had it in your head that wealthy job creators are simply going to voluntarily accept lower profits and diminished lifestyles because Barack Obama wants to give healthcare to everyone, you're a fool who does not understand basic human motives. I'll give you a hint: all humans are greedy. The rich CEOs want their yachts and by golly, they can afford them. The poor working class want health insurance, and since they can't afford it themselves, they'll use the magic of democracy to elect someone who will force the rest of the country to pay for it on their behalf.

    Put another way, greed (demanding health care on someone else's dime) is perfectly acceptable if you're poor. If you're successful and rich and you want to stay that way, then your greed is demonized. I believe in treating everyone equally, and that includes how I judge their ambition to get more for themselves. Greed is greed whether you're poor or rich.

    I agree with you on everything. What I don't agree on is Papa John blaming everything on the president. It's business, costs go up so keep it moving and do the same. Don't cry it's the presidents fault and put the blame on someone else. Just explain to your employees when you fire them that you can't have a moat and a drawbridge with a tunnel to drive through AND pay them healthcare its one or the other and he needs his drawbridge moat and tunnel on his house.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    The amount of credit you're willing to give this guy is hilarious.
    Why? Why wouldn't the guy wait and see if Romney won and gave his industry all sorts of favors before downsizing? Have you ever heard of Real Options?

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Pfeff View Post
    At least Peyton Manning bought like 20 Papa John's in Colorado a week before weed become legal. Smart man
    Lawl. That's one good piece of legislation we got out of this election season!

  20. #160
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One-Eyed Jack View Post
    I owe nothing to no one. I was dealt my hand in life and play by the same rules as everyone else. If everyone else is irresponsible and can't play to win the game that's there problem. If there irresponsible spenders, that's there problem. If the want to have multiple kids at the expense of living a less than luxurious lifestyle, that's there problem. Is the system perfect, no. But it damn sure is the best thing we got. I only owe to those to whom I actually KNOW and care about. No free handouts
    No you don't. You play by the rules, if you are an American citizen of course, that the elected leadership of this country decided you will play by. Ever been to a library? Ridden a bus? How about turned on a light switch? Don't pretend that you owe nothing when so much around you is the result of "us." Not just you. Well pretend it if you want to. You are hardly the only one who likes too. However, it doesn't mean it has any actual relationship with reality.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

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