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  1. #181
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One-Eyed Jack View Post
    What the fuck are you talking about? The money I EARNED for working. I saved it and invested it wisely so I could have an oppertubity to rise in society
    You really don't know do you... I am talking about the fact that you are, if you are an American of course, ignoring the reality around you. You pretend that CEO's did it themselves, or that capitalism drives us, but ignore everything else involved. You pretend to owe nothing to no one. Ignoring everything the people and government of this nation have done to make where you are in life now, possible. The vast amounts of money "we," the taxpayers, have (through our government) poured into education, healthcare, infrastructure, defense, and so much else. The legislation passed by our elected leadership to encourage things like student loans, or evening the playing field through anti-trust laws.

    Do you think you would be where you are in life now if you lived in Russia? China? Egypt? You, like Papa John's CEO apparently, are taking for granted what so many have worked so hard for so long to make possible in the first place. Though you are hardly the only one who does it. Its still rather sad to see.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    So you're saying liberals have less will power than the average person?
    if the average person is a hard right winger, maybe. how some (in my personal life) can hold some of their notions so staunchly in the face of reality and facts is downright remarkable. id consider that willpower. it cant be that easy to wake up every day determined that you are right and the entire rest of the world is wrong

  3. #183
    Pandaren Monk
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    I somehow think this is just childish behavior, especially from Papa Johns who was screaming about this prior to the election. The guy earlier who equated this to a soccer match where a guy is pretending to be hurt to get attention is probably right.

    Uh anyways here's how it is.

    These businesses have every right to yell and scream like children that they are being treated unfairly. They have every right to charge you what they want to charge you as well. While I personally would just off-set the cost by increasing prices ever so slightly to the customer (which is traditionally what has always been done anyway), they are certainly free to go another way. I find it odd though, that before the ACA was put in place in the U.S Papa Johns already provided decent benefits to employees already, I fail to see how this incurs such a huge financial burden on them then they were already putting on themselves by helping their employees prior. I digress though, I probably don't know the inner workings of such a business.

    On the other side consumers like a business have every right to bitch and moan about business. Don't like that these businesses are crying and threatening to fire/lay off employees? Easy, let them know. Stop supporting them and make them know with your wallets. If you think it's a shitty business let it be known! They will either change their policies or fade away, it's as simple as that.

    I don't think the ACA is that great anyways but for a lot of people it probably does work. I have no idea why the business community as a whole doesn't push single payer health care. The tax payers end up paying the brunt of such a system and then business doesn't have to be required (under the current system) to give benefits to it's employees or get around these requirements by making people work 'x' amount of hours. A big reason why the auto industry was starting to go under was because of the impressive benefits these companies were giving to their retired and soon to be retired workers. That isn't that big of an issue if everybody is just responsible for their own healthcare via taxes.

  4. #184
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One-Eyed Jack View Post
    I owe nothing to no one. I only pay the cost to do business. I was dealt my hand in life and play by the same rules as everyone else. If everyone else is irresponsible and can't play to win the game that's there problem. If there irresponsible spenders, that's there problem. If the want to have multiple kids at the expense of living a less than luxurious lifestyle, that's there problem. Is the system perfect, no. But it damn sure is the best thing we got. I only owe to those to whom I actually KNOW and care about. No free handouts
    You owe society literally everything. You wouldn't exist without it and you certainly can't make money without it.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by One-Eyed Jack View Post
    What the fuck are you talking about? The money I EARNED for working. I saved it and invested it wisely so I could have an oppertunity to rise in society
    Hint: It costs more to keep more to keep a college running than they receive in just tuition and fees from the student body.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by One-Eyed Jack View Post
    If they have no intention to progress and spend wisely, then yes. That can be implied about everyone who is more or less lazy.
    At this point I think you're either trolling or just flat out not intelligent enough to comprehend and carry on this conversation.

    <Infracted>
    You've been warned to stop. Please don't insult other posters.
    Last edited by Anakso; 2012-11-10 at 08:55 PM.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    if the average person is a hard right winger, maybe. how some (in my personal life) can hold some of their notions so staunchly in the face of reality and facts is downright remarkable. id consider that willpower. it cant be that easy to wake up every day determined that you are right and the entire rest of the world is wrong
    But that's the great mindset to have if you have the will to make money in life, which is pretty much the only important thing life has to offer

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    You owe society literally everything. You wouldn't exist without it and you certainly can't make money without it.
    This ^

    People take too many fruits of civilization and first-world government for granted.

    They need to take a trip to a third world country and realize how much better they have it in a first world country where the government provides services with their taxes.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    You owe society literally everything. You wouldn't exist without it and you certainly can't make money without it.
    But why does society owe him free healthcare, housing, yada yada yada?

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    I somehow think this is just childish behavior, especially from Papa Johns who was screaming about this prior to the election. The guy earlier who equated this to a soccer match where a guy is pretending to be hurt to get attention is probably right.

    Uh anyways here's how it is.

    These businesses have every right to yell and scream like children that they are being treated unfairly. They have every right to charge you what they want to charge you as well. While I personally would just off-set the cost by increasing prices ever so slightly to the customer (which is traditionally what has always been done anyway), they are certainly free to go another way. I find it odd though, that before the ACA was put in place in the U.S Papa Johns already provided decent benefits to employees already, I fail to see how this incurs such a huge financial burden on them then they were already putting on themselves by helping their employees prior. I digress though, I probably don't know the inner workings of such a business.

    On the other side consumers like a business have every right to bitch and moan about business. Don't like that these businesses are crying and threatening to fire/lay off employees? Easy, let them know. Stop supporting them and make them know with your wallets. If you think it's a shitty business let it be known! They will either change their policies or fade away, it's as simple as that.

    I don't think the ACA is that great anyways but for a lot of people it probably does work. I have no idea why the business community as a whole doesn't push single payer health care. The tax payers end up paying the brunt of such a system and then business doesn't have to be required (under the current system) to give benefits to it's employees or get around these requirements by making people work 'x' amount of hours. A big reason why the auto industry was starting to go under was because of the impressive benefits these companies were giving to their retired and soon to be retired workers. That isn't that big of an issue if everybody is just responsible for their own healthcare via taxes.
    First, businesses don't have rights. People do.
    Second, as someone mentioned previously in this thread, if you stop buying from papa john's that will only mean more layoffs of employees, not of the people who made the bad decision that you disagree with. In effect, in this situation, there is no way to use the free market to voice your opinion.

  11. #191
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    But why does society owe him free healthcare, housing, yada yada yada?
    Because they're fundamental human rights?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  12. #192
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    But why does society owe him free healthcare, housing, yada yada yada?
    Because healthcare is a public issue, and it would be inhumane to deny people basic infrastructure.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Absolem View Post
    This ^

    People take too many fruits of civilization and first-world government for granted.

    They need to take a trip to a third world country and realize how much better they have it in a first world country where the government provides services with their taxes.
    Society, and the individuals of soviets are motivated by greed. If people traded, and got nothing out of it whats the point of trading. I'm only out for myself when I trade because I want to live a better lifestyle than I do now. I don't care about how everyone else lives, I'm only out for myself to obtain what I want to sugarcoat the absurdity of life. Why would I want to trade extra to tend to other people's luxury a before putting my own needs first?

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by One-Eyed Jack View Post
    But that's the great mindset to have if you have the will to make money in life, which is pretty much the only important thing life has to offer
    my life offered me my daughter, so i beg to differ. if this has zero meaning for you then i truly pity you

  15. #195
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    First, businesses don't have rights. People do.
    Second, as someone mentioned previously in this thread, if you stop buying from papa john's that will only mean more layoffs of employees, not of the people who made the bad decision that you disagree with. In effect, in this situation, there is no way to use the free market to voice your opinion.
    If people boycott Papa John's, the other chains that recieve their business instead will hire more employees to account for increased demand. In theory.

    Also, will people stop saying free market; it doesn't exist.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by One-Eyed Jack View Post
    Society, and the individuals of soviets are motivated by greed. If people traded, and got nothing out of it whats the point of trading. I'm only out for myself when I trade because I want to live a better lifestyle than I do now. I don't care about how everyone else lives, I'm only out for myself to obtain what I want to sugarcoat the absurdity of life. Why would I want to trade extra to tend to other people's luxury a before putting my own needs first?
    Because in general what is good for society is good for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Because they're fundamental human rights?
    And who says they're fundamental human rights? Society? Well certainly not the US society.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    But why does society owe him free healthcare, housing, yada yada yada?
    Well first it's not free. Second you might interpret the "life, liberty, property" as a government mandate to provide nationwide healthcare and housing. Though personally I don't have much of an argument for those things other than the fact that they are basic essentials that humans need.

  19. #199
    The Lightbringer Collegeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolem View Post
    Very well said.

    I agree with this.

    People have become too complacent and just blindly accept anything and everything under the guise of anything society tells them is "holy", be it religion or capitalism.

    What exactly is wrong with capitalism or religion for that matter?

  20. #200
    Pandaren Monk
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    Unless you're one of those several people in power in said third world country, then it would be awesome!

    People take way too many things for granted. The ground work that our societies laid out in order for us to succeed is what makes it possible for us to even make it in this world.

    Government might fuck up a lot of things but there are things that need to be provided by the society as a whole to make EVERYONE succeed, because no single individual can make it happen. Where would we be without the infrastructure we have for instance? One single person or organization is going to be able to provide all transportation to everybody? Yeah, right.

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