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  1. #521
    Grunt
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    Corporations only care about making as much money for their bosses. That's it. Trickle down economics was supposed to empower the richest to provide more jobs and better pay. IMO all it did was give the rich more ways to spend money on themselves on vacations and new toys. They wouldn't hesitate to ship jobs off to another place, give out paltry raises because they could, or fire someone barely getting by to have larger bonus for an executive on up the ladder.

    Wall Street doesn't care about actually helping companies now that they got deregulated. They will just as easily bet on you to lose even if you are a client of them. Goldman Sacs is a prime example that really doesn't care either way. They only care about making money.

    So many people point the finger at Obama but in reality it's more about Congress. In this last round more Dem's got elected mainly because the Republicans mandate was to block anything and everything they could. It wasn't about caring about what was good or not for America. It was about trying to somehow make Obama look bad or that he wasn't getting anything done.

    The deal with our country is that our massive budget as compared to other countries is heavily skewed toward the military as can be seen by this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Un...federal_budget. We enacted 683 billion for military which is almost half the budget. Also look at the discrepancy with receipts between Individual vs Corporate income tax. Corporate income tax gathered only accounted for less than 10%. They already do everything possible to not pay hardly anything.

  2. #522
    Bloodsail Admiral Shadee's Avatar
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    haters gonna hate

  3. #523
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakshan View Post
    IMO all it did was give the rich more ways to spend money on themselves on vacations and new toys.
    The rich don't get or stay rich by spending money. They get / stay that way by hoarding it. Giving rich individuals more money effectively removes it from the economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    The rich don't get or stay rich by spending money. They get / stay that way by hoarding it. Giving rich individuals more money effectively removes it from the economy.
    This is why I hate trust fund babies. They don't contribute anything, and hurt the economy...

    And to be honest, most of them are spoiled brats.

  5. #525
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    This is why I hate trust fund babies. They don't contribute anything, and hurt the economy...

    And to be honest, most of them are spoiled brats.
    It's also why I found Romney's stance on abolishing the estate tax particularly infuriating. It isn't high enough the way it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  6. #526
    Stood in the Fire raintrees's Avatar
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    cant really be surprised about this. i hope at least the people that got canned were obama supporters. now they can live their dream of just sucking on the government tit and not actually working for what they have.

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by raintrees View Post
    cant really be surprised about this. i hope at least the people that got canned were obama supporters. now they can live their dream of just sucking on the government tit and not actually working for what they have.
    The really surprise is that chain pizza places are still around.

  8. #528
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkacid View Post
    You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
    You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
    You cannot help little men by tearing down big men.
    You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
    You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
    You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money.
    You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
    You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.
    You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence.
    And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.

    Obama needs to heed these words.
    You cannot run a society on advice from fortune cookies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totikki View Post
    I find it funny/sad that better healthcare & welfare with higher taxes is like the devil. Rest of the world or atleast most countries in europe/scandinavia do that way and it works fine. Its like little kids that just rage because they dont like change and think its worse.
    Also, Nordic countries and Canada have far higher social mobility (the "American Dream") than the USA does.
    For those who like pictures;



    This chart shows to what extent someone's parent's income affects their own future income. Lower numbers mean people will tend to succeed or fail on their own merits, rather than advantages given by their parents, e.g. the meritocracy that Americans like to imagine they live in.

  9. #529
    Field Marshal Shinerr's Avatar
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    You cant expect a successful business owner to just sit there and take a loss, he is where he is because he makes a product that people like at a price where he could turn a profit. I'm sure Papa Johns didn't start out as this big evil company that it is portrayed as now, probably started from nothing but turned into something from hard work. Once you become successful you can't rest of that, you continuously look for ways to grow your business and cut costs. If the government is going to force these costs on Papa Johns as a corporation, then they will find a way to still make as much of a profit as they can. No one wants to be in business to just to pay the bills and do ok.

  10. #530
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinerr View Post
    You cant expect a successful business owner to just sit there and take a loss, he is where he is because he makes a product that people like at a price where he could turn a profit. I'm sure Papa Johns didn't start out as this big evil company that it is portrayed as now, probably started from nothing but turned into something from hard work. Once you become successful you can't rest of that, you continuously look for ways to grow your business and cut costs. If the government is going to force these costs on Papa Johns as a corporation, then they will find a way to still make as much of a profit as they can. No one wants to be in business to just to pay the bills and do ok.
    I guess I'd feel bad for him if he didn't have a 40,000 square foot house, a private golf course, 22 car garage, etc...

    This is a man that has done incredibly well for himself. I don't expect him to take some huge loss. I expect him to raise the price of his pizza by 4 cents and move on with his life instead of bitch and moan about how he has to actually supply his peons with health insurance now.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  11. #531
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    You hear that guys and gals? It's not hard to be successful, you just have to be born into a rich family!
    if someone can go from being homeless and living in the woods in the park to owning their own successful business less than 5 years later. then yes, ANYone, that wants to be successful CAN be... It's a matter of how much effort you truly want to put into it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 12:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    We do.
    Also, here in Belgium, they pay for Medical Insurance, but it is ALL heavily subsidised, so full coverage for me and my wife is the princely sum of 15 Euros a month. With discounts if we live healthy lifestyles (Gym. regular checkups etc).
    Yet, in USA< I read people have to pay nearly 4-5 times that amount, with less coming in than we have here? It's insane...
    and how much of your income do you have to give to your government? what precisely is the lowest tax bracket there in Belgium? Does EVERYone have to pay, or just select folks paying for the taxes?

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  12. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    if someone can go from being homeless and living in the woods in the park to owning their own successful business less than 5 years later. then yes, ANYone, that wants to be successful CAN be... It's a matter of how much effort you truly want to put into it.
    So are we going by the appeal to probability now? You're essentially just doing a positive form of Murphy's Law, which means your argument has absolutely no credence in the grand scheme of things.

  13. #533
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Yes, I do know of people who started off as poor as made something with it, but absolutely all of them used drugs money to subsidize that.
    Not everyone that was poor that is now a success is tainted with drugs, to claim that they are is factually dishonest, and you know it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 12:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    No no no. You just have to work (pray) harder. If you fail, it just means you didn't work (pray) hard enough. Your success (salvation) will come. You just need to let the free market invisible hand (having faith in god) do its thing and everything will be (magically) better.
    It's sad to see you stoop to attacking things you dislike, like personal responsibility and other people's belief systems or their religion, specially since we aren't supposed to be discussing religion.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  14. #534
    Field Marshal Shinerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    I guess I'd feel bad for him if he didn't have a 40,000 square foot house, a private golf course, 22 car garage, etc...

    This is a man that has done incredibly well for himself. I don't expect him to take some huge loss. I expect him to raise the price of his pizza by 4 cents and move on with his life instead of bitch and moan about how he has to actually supply his peons with health insurance now.

    I'm not saying to feel bad for him. I'm saying that he is in business to ultimately do one thing, and he has done it very well and reaped the rewards. I'm sure in the eyes of Papa Johns there will be much less customer impact if they don't raise the cost of pizza. They will always take cutting costs over raising prices. That will always be the case, unless the government says they cant, in which case that is a whole new can of worms.

  15. #535
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balazaar View Post
    The problem is a simple one ... greed.

    The almighty dollar rules all. Profit must keep going up at all costs. Companies believe they must make the maximum amount they can, cutting and squeezing to wring out every last penny.

    Bullshit.

    This is America's problem. Yes, companies should try to make a profit. But if you can pay a decent wage and provide benefits for your employees and still make a profit, you should. How much money is enough??? Billionaires trying to make billions more and the hell with who it hurts. Companies making record profits cutting wages. This is ridiculous!

    Until we stop worshiping money at all costs America will never get on track. Seems to me asking people who have millions of dollars to pay a bit more is a no brainer.
    Tell me... if having money is so bad, and so bad for folks... how come you aren't trying to fleece the actors, musicians, sports stars and the like? If having money is so bad then the poor should be happy as fuck, right?

    Example... Oprah is worth 250M dollars, I dont see y'all chasing after her for her tax returns, nor do I see y'all demanding she pay more. A-Rod has a 5 year contract with $114M dollars... not counting the millions and millions he's made... Where is the outcry over his taxes and how rich he is? Gonna demand more from him too? Kanye West is reportedly worth $70M...

    Wonder how much they all paid in taxes, how much they give to charity...

    /scratches chin and wanders off to do more digging.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  16. #536
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Tell me... if having money is so bad, and so bad for folks... how come you aren't trying to fleece the actors, musicians, sports stars and the like? If having money is so bad then the poor should be happy as fuck, right?

    Example... Oprah is worth 250M dollars, I dont see y'all chasing after her for her tax returns, nor do I see y'all demanding she pay more. A-Rod has a 5 year contract with $114M dollars... not counting the millions and millions he's made... Where is the outcry over his taxes and how rich he is? Gonna demand more from him too? Kanye West is reportedly worth $70M...

    Wonder how much they all paid in taxes, how much they give to charity...

    /scratches chin and wanders off to do more digging.
    Protip: There's a difference between rich civilians, and rich politicians running who are making taxes a cornerstone of their campaign.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  17. #537
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Remember, its only class warfare if a democrat does it.

    When the GOP nominee calls 47% of the country shiftless its just telling the truth.
    You, folks all over MMO-C and the media pounced on him mercilessly... save it sir... if what Romney said was out of line as you claim, then certainly its out of line when your guys say it too.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 01:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lolo855 View Post
    stealing from the riches, do u know the company accelor mital ?
    despite a profit of 1.54 billion euro's he paid less taxes then I did by earning 50k

    and now the he took profit of the loop holes in the tax system he is just closing shop and moving to china.
    If you think thhat the 1% percent of rich pay more taxes then the 99% other % i'am sorry but you are very very wrong.

    Companies with big profit tend to know and use loop holes that we can't afford and don't even know about.

    The US is in decline and caused the biggest world wide recession because of that stupid mentality.

    It's fine being rich but becoming rich by abusing a system and putting the poor in an even more disastrous situation is just plain wrong.

    The rich companies are the reason why today we are in a bad situation I don't see any reason why the not rich should have to pay for that.
    General Electric, CEO, Jeff Immelt, chairman of obama's job council... go look up their recent tax payment history...

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal.

  18. #538
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    if someone can go from being homeless and living in the woods in the park to owning their own successful business less than 5 years later. then yes, ANYone, that wants to be successful CAN be... It's a matter of how much effort you truly want to put into it.
    Please go out and run 100m in less than 10 seconds. Obviously everyone can do it, they just need to put in more effort.

    Scroll up to my previous post and find why your claims of social mobility in the USA are fiction.

  19. #539
    Field Marshal Shinerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Please go out and run 100m in less than 10 seconds. Obviously everyone can do it, they just need to put in more effort.

    Scroll up to my previous post and find why your claims of social mobility in the USA are fiction.
    Some people are going to fail, at both of those scenarios, its part of life. That doesnt mean the drive to be successful is bad or wrong. Just like I may fail at running 100m in less that 10s. But I had just as much chance as anyone else to run it that fast.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Not everyone that was poor that is now a success is tainted with drugs, to claim that they are is factually dishonest, and you know it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 12:46 PM ----------



    It's sad to see you stoop to attacking things you dislike, like personal responsibility and other people's belief systems or their religion, specially since we aren't supposed to be discussing religion.
    Never attacked religion, never attacked anything in fact. I was merely pointing out the analogy that conservatives typically use faith as the starting point for their arguments. As well I was pointing out the striking similarity between people like you saying "just work harder" and people in religion saying "just pray more". They are both circular, unfalsifiable. That is why your argument is moot. Also I never said anything about personal responsibility, that's nothing but a straw argument. I would be closer on the mark by saying you're the type that blames the victim instead of the person that did the crime.

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