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  1. #521
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    if someone can go from being homeless and living in the woods in the park to owning their own successful business less than 5 years later. then yes, ANYone, that wants to be successful CAN be... It's a matter of how much effort you truly want to put into it.
    So are we going by the appeal to probability now? You're essentially just doing a positive form of Murphy's Law, which means your argument has absolutely no credence in the grand scheme of things.

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Yes, I do know of people who started off as poor as made something with it, but absolutely all of them used drugs money to subsidize that.
    Not everyone that was poor that is now a success is tainted with drugs, to claim that they are is factually dishonest, and you know it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 12:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    No no no. You just have to work (pray) harder. If you fail, it just means you didn't work (pray) hard enough. Your success (salvation) will come. You just need to let the free market invisible hand (having faith in god) do its thing and everything will be (magically) better.
    It's sad to see you stoop to attacking things you dislike, like personal responsibility and other people's belief systems or their religion, specially since we aren't supposed to be discussing religion.

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  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    I guess I'd feel bad for him if he didn't have a 40,000 square foot house, a private golf course, 22 car garage, etc...

    This is a man that has done incredibly well for himself. I don't expect him to take some huge loss. I expect him to raise the price of his pizza by 4 cents and move on with his life instead of bitch and moan about how he has to actually supply his peons with health insurance now.

    I'm not saying to feel bad for him. I'm saying that he is in business to ultimately do one thing, and he has done it very well and reaped the rewards. I'm sure in the eyes of Papa Johns there will be much less customer impact if they don't raise the cost of pizza. They will always take cutting costs over raising prices. That will always be the case, unless the government says they cant, in which case that is a whole new can of worms.

  4. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balazaar View Post
    The problem is a simple one ... greed.

    The almighty dollar rules all. Profit must keep going up at all costs. Companies believe they must make the maximum amount they can, cutting and squeezing to wring out every last penny.

    Bullshit.

    This is America's problem. Yes, companies should try to make a profit. But if you can pay a decent wage and provide benefits for your employees and still make a profit, you should. How much money is enough??? Billionaires trying to make billions more and the hell with who it hurts. Companies making record profits cutting wages. This is ridiculous!

    Until we stop worshiping money at all costs America will never get on track. Seems to me asking people who have millions of dollars to pay a bit more is a no brainer.
    Tell me... if having money is so bad, and so bad for folks... how come you aren't trying to fleece the actors, musicians, sports stars and the like? If having money is so bad then the poor should be happy as fuck, right?

    Example... Oprah is worth 250M dollars, I dont see y'all chasing after her for her tax returns, nor do I see y'all demanding she pay more. A-Rod has a 5 year contract with $114M dollars... not counting the millions and millions he's made... Where is the outcry over his taxes and how rich he is? Gonna demand more from him too? Kanye West is reportedly worth $70M...

    Wonder how much they all paid in taxes, how much they give to charity...

    /scratches chin and wanders off to do more digging.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  5. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Tell me... if having money is so bad, and so bad for folks... how come you aren't trying to fleece the actors, musicians, sports stars and the like? If having money is so bad then the poor should be happy as fuck, right?

    Example... Oprah is worth 250M dollars, I dont see y'all chasing after her for her tax returns, nor do I see y'all demanding she pay more. A-Rod has a 5 year contract with $114M dollars... not counting the millions and millions he's made... Where is the outcry over his taxes and how rich he is? Gonna demand more from him too? Kanye West is reportedly worth $70M...

    Wonder how much they all paid in taxes, how much they give to charity...

    /scratches chin and wanders off to do more digging.
    Protip: There's a difference between rich civilians, and rich politicians running who are making taxes a cornerstone of their campaign.

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Remember, its only class warfare if a democrat does it.

    When the GOP nominee calls 47% of the country shiftless its just telling the truth.
    You, folks all over MMO-C and the media pounced on him mercilessly... save it sir... if what Romney said was out of line as you claim, then certainly its out of line when your guys say it too.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 01:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lolo855 View Post
    stealing from the riches, do u know the company accelor mital ?
    despite a profit of 1.54 billion euro's he paid less taxes then I did by earning 50k

    and now the he took profit of the loop holes in the tax system he is just closing shop and moving to china.
    If you think thhat the 1% percent of rich pay more taxes then the 99% other % i'am sorry but you are very very wrong.

    Companies with big profit tend to know and use loop holes that we can't afford and don't even know about.

    The US is in decline and caused the biggest world wide recession because of that stupid mentality.

    It's fine being rich but becoming rich by abusing a system and putting the poor in an even more disastrous situation is just plain wrong.

    The rich companies are the reason why today we are in a bad situation I don't see any reason why the not rich should have to pay for that.
    General Electric, CEO, Jeff Immelt, chairman of obama's job council... go look up their recent tax payment history...

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  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    if someone can go from being homeless and living in the woods in the park to owning their own successful business less than 5 years later. then yes, ANYone, that wants to be successful CAN be... It's a matter of how much effort you truly want to put into it.
    Please go out and run 100m in less than 10 seconds. Obviously everyone can do it, they just need to put in more effort.

    Scroll up to my previous post and find why your claims of social mobility in the USA are fiction.

  8. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Please go out and run 100m in less than 10 seconds. Obviously everyone can do it, they just need to put in more effort.

    Scroll up to my previous post and find why your claims of social mobility in the USA are fiction.
    Some people are going to fail, at both of those scenarios, its part of life. That doesnt mean the drive to be successful is bad or wrong. Just like I may fail at running 100m in less that 10s. But I had just as much chance as anyone else to run it that fast.

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Not everyone that was poor that is now a success is tainted with drugs, to claim that they are is factually dishonest, and you know it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 12:46 PM ----------



    It's sad to see you stoop to attacking things you dislike, like personal responsibility and other people's belief systems or their religion, specially since we aren't supposed to be discussing religion.
    Never attacked religion, never attacked anything in fact. I was merely pointing out the analogy that conservatives typically use faith as the starting point for their arguments. As well I was pointing out the striking similarity between people like you saying "just work harder" and people in religion saying "just pray more". They are both circular, unfalsifiable. That is why your argument is moot. Also I never said anything about personal responsibility, that's nothing but a straw argument. I would be closer on the mark by saying you're the type that blames the victim instead of the person that did the crime.

  10. #530
    Pardon my language, but some people never get over being vindictive little cunts.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    if someone can go from being homeless and living in the woods in the park to owning their own successful business less than 5 years later. then yes, ANYone, that wants to be successful CAN be... It's a matter of how much effort you truly want to put into it.
    If that's the case here, then fuck him even harder for deciding to turn around and hamstring everybody else whose position he'd once shared. Somebody who's "been there" should know better.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Bayhas View Post
    John Schnatter is worth 600 million dollars. ~4000 businesses with a base average of 6 employees (only 4 at the location where I'm at) so 24,000 employees and he can't cover .14 cents? That's only 3360.00 a month, he probably pays that in an electric bill for that big ass house of his. Don't pity the 1% for the taxes that are coming for them.
    Franchises don't work that way.

    Corporate isn't responsible for franchise employees.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Forbes did a great article going through the math of John Schnatter's claims. They found that the price increase per pizza is actually 3.4 to 4.6 cents per pizza.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/calebmel...bamacare-math/

    So not only does this guy make shitty pizza, but he sucks at math.

    My favorite part of the article:

    I'm curious as to why we trust Forbes to estimate business costs over the CEO of the actual company.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    The rich don't get or stay rich by spending money. They get / stay that way by hoarding it. Giving rich individuals more money effectively removes it from the economy.
    That's an incredibly ignorant stance.

    Unless you take money and stuff it under a mattress, it isn't removed from the economy.

    If you're going to save money, you have 2 realistic options. Bank accounts and investments.

    When you open a bank account, the bank will re-lend your money out, so it's not out of the economy.

    When you invest that money, you're giving it to someone else in exchange for something. Their intention is probably to spend that money, so it's not taken out of the economy.

  13. #533
    Id think the ceo knows more about his own company than the people here. He tells you what is going to happen and why yet people still dont believe it... Then it happens and they are suddenly surprised.

  14. #534
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Id think the ceo knows more about his own company than the people here. He tells you what is going to happen and why yet people still dont believe it... Then it happens and they are suddenly surprised.
    The only surprise is that he mixed politics and business together, and developed a problem where one really didn't exist. Hardly a sound choice, and one that is already showing as backfiring for him.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    The only surprise is that he mixed politics and business together, and developed a problem where one really didn't exist. Hardly a sound choice, and one that is already showing as backfiring for him.
    He didn't create a problem at all. He was just stating the obvious.

    It's people on the left who are creating a big stink over nothing.

    Every business owner in the US is going to face this problem.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Id think the ceo knows more about his own company than the people here. He tells you what is going to happen and why yet people still dont believe it... Then it happens and they are suddenly surprised.
    What problem? No one would even have noticed the extra 11 cents per pizza....

    Oh no, instead of $8 my pizza is $8.11! The Horror!

  17. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    He didn't create a problem at all. He was just stating the obvious.

    It's people on the left who are creating a big stink over nothing.

    Every business owner in the US is going to face this problem.
    A rational business decision would be to go along with the situation, adapting to the new economic atmosphere and by doing so attempt to find ways to outdo their competition. In fact, eliminating employees to maintain a slightly lower price of pizzas could very easily be a sound business decision. The aspect where he mixed business and politics and thus created a problem, was when he made public announcements that he would pass the cost of health care directly to the workers and thus eliminate a number of them. Making a public spectacle of the incident rather than quietly passing on the costs has probably harmed the company more than the costs themselves.

  18. #538
    Murray Energy was cited and fined for numerous mine safety violations over the last few years - THAT is why their business is going to shit. It has to do with general incompetence and has NOTHING to do with who's president.

    And Papa John's... what can I say. What these CEOs are saying is, "I'm unwilling to provide fundamental benefits necessary to maintain a secure livelihood to my employees." That's cool. Your pizza sucks anyhow. If corporations are gonna blame Obama for mandating that they have to treat their employees better rather than sucking it up like a big boy and trying to make this country better by relaxing their exploitative chokehold on the lower and lower-middle class, I think they'll find a pretty unsympathetic public.

    What they're trying to do isn't too unfamiliar though - they're doubling down on the great Republican lie that only the rich create jobs. They don't. Innovation comes more often from startups and entrepenuers with balls, not the vampires that snatch them up and then axe half their native workforce.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Id think the ceo knows more about his own company than the people here. He tells you what is going to happen and why yet people still dont believe it... Then it happens and they are suddenly surprised.
    Well, honestly, Schnatter knows full well nothing in Obamacare will change for him.

    He's beholden to shareholders, however, and they demand profits.

    You're not allowed to willfully cut profits. It's just not something that companies do. Even truly great companies like Google don't do it without the intention of making more money based on that investment.

    When a company like Papa John's only makes $55 million a year, a $5-$8 million increase in expenditures is pretty big.

    It seems to me that he's not looking out to save his own hide (The man is already worth $600 million). Rather, he's worried that a 15 cent increase in the cost of pizza will deter customers. I think this is entirely unfounded. He doesn't.

    Papa John's takes 8% off the top. So in an $11 pizza, $.88 goes to Papa Johns.

    Soooooo.... to account for an $8 million increase in expenses, you're looking at about a 0.7% increase in revenue. That seems, to me, to amount to a $.08 increase in pizza costs.

    I'm not sure how Forbes determined they'd only need to increase pizza costs by 3 or 4 cents, though.

    I'm also not sure how Schnatter came up with the 14 cent increase.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    The only surprise is that he mixed politics and business together, and developed a problem where one really didn't exist. Hardly a sound choice, and one that is already showing as backfiring for him.
    You realize business's are going to be paying more in taxes? Its hard not to mix them together when its the cause.

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