CEO's blame layoffs and reduced hours on Obama re-election

[Masark]

Most super-wealthy people do not, in fact, inherit their money.

500k in investment assets is "super wealthy"?

That's an average size RRSP.

[Laize]

500k in investment assets is "super wealthy"?

That's an average size RRSP.

No, 500k in free cash available for investing.

[chadwix]

I stand corrected on the individuals you linked but the study you linked was not at the level I was talking about. I wasn't talking about people who barely pass of millionaires, I was talking about players who ranked into the billions. But thank you for the correction. Most of the rich people I see are ones who got their money from mommy and daddy or were "self made" even though they had millions before they started.

You realize professional atheles are usually millionaires? The majority dont grow up rich. How about musicians and actors? I think your polarizing on a few or didnt really look into this

[purpledrannk]

I actually think the CEO's are doing this to intentionally hobble their companies, to make Obama look as if he is hurting them. Kind of the equivalent of getting brushed up against in soccer and throwing yourself to the ground, howling in agony and hoping to God everyone watching believes you've genuinely been fouled.

Holy. Fucking. Shit. YES YOU CAN

When a company wants to cut its employees overtime, pension, benefits, to make more money you can be mad at them.

When a company increases its carbon footprint and dumps its polluted afterproduct to save money into a local river, pond, lake, or even woods you can be mad at them.

When a company moves its factory from Detroit Michigan to Hong Kong because Chinese labor laws allow them to place their workers in dangerous working conditions and pay them far less, you can be mad at them.

When a company creates a product that sells based on its "guarantee" and the they find every loophole and exemption to avoid honoring their garuntee you can be mad at them.


Somewhere along the line the World of Warcraft community has accepted EVERYTHING blizzard has done on the basis of "A corporation has got to make money" where has your consumer expectations gone? What you're willing to purchase is a deciding factor in capitalism, so why are you willing to purchase anything and tell yourself "oh capitalism you're silly" when things go awry.

Goes back to the days of monopolies and Mckinley except, the dems outspent Romhole and the republicans this time. Conservatives have a much bigger problem than money. Its called relating to the 70% of Americans who make this country what it is. Middle class. If you cant relate to us, you'll never see the oval office. Plain and simple.

[Fugus]

Do you realize that there are only 400 people in the United States who have $1 billion in net assets? Almost none of them are heirs.

Almost all I have heard of were heirs or old as hell. But I haven't read up too much on them.

If they haven't inherited so much and they had earned, then how can they still have such a disconnect between themselves and the rest of the world? The Walton heirs I can understand as they never had to live as normal people to begin with but to have someone go from rolling pennies for gas to having millions or billions only to treat others who started in their shoes like trash and setup the game to make it even harder for them to get out of their situation... Just how fucked up did they have to be to get where they are if that is what they are when they get there.

---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 05:35 PM ----------

You realize professional atheles are usually millionaires? The majority dont grow up rich. How about musicians and actors? I think your polarizing on a few or didnt really look into this

I wasn't including Actors, Musicians or Athletes with this. I was talking about the people who actually ran businesses and such. And besides, they weren't at the income bracket I was talking about. The guys who sign their paychecks are.

[purpledrannk]

Table 4: Percentage of wealth held in 2000 by the Top 10% of the adult population in various Western countries
wealth owned

by top 10%
Switzerland 71.3%
United States 69.8%
Denmark 65.0%
France 61.0%
Sweden 58.6%
UK 56.0%
Canada 53.0%
Norway 50.5%
Germany 44.4%
Finland 42.3%

"If they haven't inherited so much and they had earned, then how can they still have such a disconnect between themselves and the rest of the world? The Walton heirs I can understand as they never had to live as normal people to begin with but to have someone go from rolling pennies for gas to having millions or billions only to treat others who started in their shoes like trash and setup the game to make it even harder for them to get out of their situation... Just how fucked up did they have to be to get where they are if that is what they are when they get there."

actually you should dig a little deeper and you'll see the Walton family is under the true 1%'rs in America. The Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, Morgan's and Carnegies are still the most affluent in America in some facet.

[Laize]

Almost all I have heard of were heirs or old as hell. But I haven't read up too much on them.

If they haven't inherited so much and they had earned, then how can they still have such a disconnect between themselves and the rest of the world? The Walton heirs I can understand as they never had to live as normal people to begin with but to have someone go from rolling pennies for gas to having millions or billions only to treat others who started in their shoes like trash and setup the game to make it even harder for them to get out of their situation... Just how fucked up did they have to be to get where they are if that is what they are when they get there.

It's quite simple really.

Our brains have a way of enhancing things that happened in the past, for good or ill. If you went from being grindingly poor to incredibly wealthy, there's a good chance your brain will alter your perception of how life was before you were wealthy. It's almost the exact same phenomenon that causes people to think that if they just had more money all their problems would go away. The brain's terrible way of estimating things combined with its piss poor historical accuracy make for some pretty big disparities between the wealthy and not.

Some other wealthy people might be of the mentality "Well this guy isn't collecting aluminum cans out of dumpsters, he's not half as poor as I was and look at me now." The mentality is "If I could do all this, why can't he bootstrap himself to at least middle class?"

---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 10:46 PM ----------

Table 4: Percentage of wealth held in 2000 by the Top 10% of the adult population in various Western countries
wealth owned

by top 10%
Switzerland 71.3%
United States 69.8%
Denmark 65.0%
France 61.0%
Sweden 58.6%
UK 56.0%
Canada 53.0%
Norway 50.5%
Germany 44.4%
Finland 42.3%

interesting

I'd rather be like Switzerland than Sweden. Looks like we're on a good path.

[Fugus]

It's quite simple really.

Our brains have a way of enhancing things that happened in the past, for good or ill. If you went from being grindingly poor to incredibly wealthy, there's a good chance your brain will alter your perception of how life was before you were wealthy. It's almost the exact same phenomenon that causes people to think that if they just had more money all their problems would go away. The brain's terrible way of estimating things combined with its piss poor historical accuracy make for some pretty big disparities between the wealthy and not.

Some other wealthy people might be of the mentality "Well this guy isn't collecting aluminum cans out of dumpsters, he's not half as poor as I was and look at me now." The mentality is "If I could do all this, why can't he bootstrap himself to at least middle class?"

---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 10:46 PM ----------



I'd rather be like Switzerland than Sweden. Looks like we're on a good path.

Cognitive Dissidence at it's best (or worst) I guess. Kinda like how a drunk remembering a fight sees himself like Bruce Lee when in the fight he was more like Andy Dick. I can see it, seen plenty trying to remember their past and many of them end up remember it being much better or worse than it really was.

[Laize]

Cognitive Dissidence at it's best (or worst) I guess. Kinda like how a drunk remembering a fight sees himself like Bruce Lee when in the fight he was more like Andy Dick. I can see it, seen plenty trying to remember their past and many of them end up remember it being much better or worse than it really was.

That idea goes the other way too.

Poor people love imagining that if they just had more money, all their problems would go away.

In reality, the reason they're poor to begin with is usually that they're bad at managing money. Look at how many people win the lottery and go back to being grindingly poor in less than 2 years.

In reality, most poor people are poor because they manage their money so badly that there's nothing in the bank when adversity strikes.

I really believe that if everyone were good at managing their money then the wealth distribution wouldn't look anything like the top quintile holding 93% of the wealth.

[Wells]

Poor people love imagining that if they just had more money, all their problems would go away.

To be fair to a fairly significant extent they are correct. When you're poor your concerns tend to revolve around stuff like "will I make rent".

In reality, most poor people are poor because they manage their money so badly that there's nothing in the bank when adversity strikes.

I'd love to see what you're basing the bolded on.

I really believe that if everyone were good at managing their money then the wealth distribution wouldn't look anything like the top quintile holding 93% of the wealth.

I don't think blaming the poor for the rich getting richer and richer is really fair. Its not like the poor are the ones spending millions creating a government that is favorable to them in so many ways.

[Fugus]

That idea goes the other way too.

Poor people love imagining that if they just had more money, all their problems would go away.

In reality, the reason they're poor to begin with is usually that they're bad at managing money. Look at how many people win the lottery and go back to being grindingly poor in less than 2 years.

In reality, most poor people are poor because they manage their money so badly that there's nothing in the bank when adversity strikes.

I really believe that if everyone were good at managing their money then the wealth distribution wouldn't look anything like the top quintile holding 93% of the wealth.

I have seen plenty who are poor and really bad at managing money but I have seen quite a few who are actually really good at managing money out of necessity but are flat out poor cause they are not offered any opportunities to earn any real money. I actually get comments on how I can stretch a budget further than anyone else but I am still poor as crap cause most jobs refuse to pay more than about $200 a week out here no matter what and I keep getting stuck with jobs that flat out don't make ends meet no matter what. Being able to eat off of $50 for 2 weeks without relying on ramen doesn't matter much when even at your best, it would take you 2 and a half weeks of pay just to pay for 1 months rent in a single wide trailer in a high crime area 12 miles from where you work, let alone the other expenses.

Well, was nice talking to ya, but got to go. Later.

[Laize]

To be fair to a fairly significant extent they are correct. When you're poor your concerns tend to revolve around stuff like "will I make rent".

Well yes, those are the bulk of their problems. Those problems are usually derivative of their poor money management skills, though.

I'd love to see what you're basing the bolded on.

http://www.tnr.com/article/environme...-self-control#

I don't think blaming the poor for the rich getting richer and richer is really fair. Its not like the poor are the ones spending millions creating a government that is favorable to them in so many ways.

I'm not blaming anyone for anything.

The rich get richer because they're good at being rich. There's nothing to love or loathe about that fact.

[Wells]

You are seriously misrepresenting that article. Essentially what they're saying is that financial decisions are way harder for the poor because every choice involves giving something up in addition to money and that that constant exertion of willpower has an effect. Saying most poor people are poor because they're bad with money is just the same old "poor people are poor because they're dumb" with a nice new paint job. All the financial planning in the world won't do you much good when you're on minimum wage and find out you have cancer.

[Tojara]

Dominoes use to be ass but they had this thing a few years ago where they were super interested in feed back (I think 2008 or 2009). I guess they listened because the quality of their food is way way better.

We don't have Papa Johns where I live in Canada but every time we ordered in when we went on Vacation in Florida it was ass. Just buy other pizza lol.

[Laize]

You are seriously misrepresenting that article. Essentially what they're saying is that financial decisions are way harder for the poor because every choice involves giving something up in addition to money and that that constant exertion of willpower has an effect. Saying most poor people are poor because they're bad with money is just the same old "poor people are poor because they're dumb" with a nice new paint job. All the financial planning in the world won't do you much good when you're on minimum wage and find out you have cancer.

Ignore the catastrophic case of cancer as that's both rare and covered by the public under even current US law.

Let's talk about a catastrophe that isn't covered. Say your car gets totaled by a falling tree branch and you don't have comprehensive coverage. That's catastrophic for someone earning minimum wage.

What aspects of this person's life that they're in control of could have been done differently?

Could they have worked a second job? Lived in cheaper living accommodations? Spent less on cigarettes? Gone to the bar less?

The poor are more likely to eat at fast food joints and smoke than someone who's better off. I find it difficult to reconcile the fact that it's cheaper to NOT smoke and eat fast food (instead brown-bagging a lunch) with the idea that the poor aren't any worse at decision making than the not-poor.

[Wells]

Ignore the catastrophic case of cancer as that's both rare

Medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy.

and covered by the public under even current US law.

Depends on your state. Medicaid ain't exactly generous and you can be pretty badly off and still not qualify, especially if you live in a GOP state.

I don't really care about what you can personally reconcile Laize, I care about data and testable claims. Are poor people often bad with money? Sure. Are most people who are poor that way because they're bad with money? Even if that's actually a testable claim its not one you'd defended.

[Talen]

You can't be mad for companies wanting to make profits, that's how business works. you vote for obamacare, expect the shitstorm to be happening.

I'd think better of his excuse if he wasn't proposing a 14 cent per pizza rise to cover a 4 cent per pizza contribution. In the same vein, he gives away 30 million dollars of pizza every year. Maybe if he cut back a little, he'd be able to afford the 8 million or so he'd need for Obamacare.

EJL

[Vizardlorde]

Medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy.

Depends on your state. Medicaid ain't exactly generous and you can be pretty badly off and still not qualify, especially if you live in a GOP state.

I don't really care about what you can personally reconcile Laize, I care about data and testable claims. Are poor people often bad with money? Sure. Are most people who are poor that way because they're bad with money? Even if that's actually a testable claim its not one you'd defended.

Yup medicare is kinda tough to get if you are not extremely poor
I live in a family of 4 with 2 working adults a mooching student (me) and a child with and income of roughly 50k to 70k a per year( including commissions) . A year and a half ago my mother was involved in a horrible chain car accident in which she did not cause or contribute to in anyway (she was the last person hit) and her bones in her left arm were splintered to smithereens. Her car insurance pays her 10 grand the 2nd insurance involved paid 10 grand and the guy who caused everything had an expired insurance and only got a couple of fines. Because of the 20k recieved from insurances mom did not qualify for emergency medicaid. And she received a 135k medical bill for everything from the pain killers to the surgery. If it werent for the kindness of the doctors and the hospital my family would be in deep shit right now.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I used to work at Papa John's as a delivery driver when I was young and hadn't graduated from high school. I was paid pennies for gas mileage (some crazy low rate that equated to about half the cost of gas) and minimum wage plus whatever I made in tips. The managers somehow never seemed to understand in both high school and later in college that when I gave them my schedule of workable hours, it meant that I COULD NOT WORK the hours I did not put down, and would go ahead and sign me up to work in the middle of classes and then wondered where I was when I didn't show up for my shift.

I always admired Papa John for his "came up from nothing" business but after his latest temper tantrum when Papa John's is making record profits and whining that he has to raise prices of pizza to pay for employee health care, I've lost all admiration for him.

[Laize]

Medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy.

Depends on your state. Medicaid ain't exactly generous and you can be pretty badly off and still not qualify, especially if you live in a GOP state.

I can't speak for all states, but I lived the exact scenario you laid out (Cancer and near minimum wage with no insurance) when I was 22. I am neither bankrupt nor poor. So you'll forgive me if I, at least in NJ, have difficulty believing that medical costs have a legitimate reason for being the #1 cause of bankruptcy beyond people making shitty decisions.

I don't really care about what you can personally reconcile Laize, I care about data and testable claims. Are poor people often bad with money? Sure. Are most people who are poor that way because they're bad with money? Even if that's actually a testable claim its not one you'd defended.

Just what, exactly, would convince you of this?

There's certainly no SYSTEM keeping poor people poor. No one (except payday loan originators) have an INCENTIVE to keep poor people poor. Avoiding the clusterfuck of things like low-balance charges at banks and other things "designed" to keep people poor isn't that difficult.