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  1. #841
    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    Why is it ludicrous?

    You deny the basic effects of this legislation?
    Dosen't it have to be enacted first?
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by moogogaipan View Post
    Dosen't it have to be enacted first?
    Responsible people prepare, irresponsible respond.

  3. #843
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    All i can say to the people mad about companies that are doing this is you reap what you sew. If you supported obama, and supported his health care plan...this is what happens, and you got exactly what you wanted.

    No one cares about the fact that socialized medicine has either failed and/or bankrupted every nation thats tried it. People in Europe brag about it too...hasn't it bankrupted you guys also? Last i heard they were trying to ditch it there as well. Its not even just that...its the quality of care...why do you think people came to the US for care from all over the world, including nations with socialized medicine?

  4. #844
    Behold, the "job creators" are actually chameleons. They're job creators when exploiting labor is simple. They're beleaguered business men when labor demands that it be treated with a certain respect and dignity. Honestly, they're only opening the hole for more ethical leaders to blow them out of the water by hiring a better work force.

  5. #845
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moogogaipan View Post
    Dosen't it have to be enacted first?
    That's sort of common sense, which seems to be lost on many people.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  6. #846
    Herald of the Titans Beazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    That's sort of common sense, which seems to be lost on many people.
    Like the poster above said: "Responsible people prepare, irresponsible respond."

    I know, I know ~ Logic isnt allowed when pointing a finger at democrats. Im just sayin`.

  7. #847
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Papa Johns CEO threatens to reduce employee hours or increase pizza prices so he doesn't have to pay for healthcare.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2104202.html


    Murray energy fires 150+ employees in response to Obama re-election.
    http://m.washingtonpost.com/business...684_story.html


    So I guess this is the new thing. Blame layoffs and price increases that were already going to happen on Obama. Murray energy should probably blame the free market for its layoffs, since they are a direct result of the rising competitiveness of Natural Gas via fracking. It's no wonder they deny climate change and lobby for unsafe working conditions to reduce cost.

    Oh look a picture of John Schnatters house. i.imgur.com/T7W2j.png

    Your pizza sucks anyways, John.
    You do realize that there are billionaire democraps who've ordered lay offs in their companies because the company could not afford health care costs. Papa Johns has the balls to say the reason they're laying off people.

    What I find incredibly sad and pathetic is that democraps will boycott a company, thus making it even further difficult to generate revenue. Moreover, the guy has spent his entire career building a business which employees thousands around the world, yet you're going to bitch and cry because he's been paid well for his accomplishment?

    Without men and women who roll the dice, risk themselves financially and their career to build a dream you wouldn't have many of the companies which employee sometimes hundreds of thousands of people, yet you're crying because they've been compensated for that?

  8. #848
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    I know, I know ~ Logic isnt allowed when pointing a finger at democrats. Im just sayin`.
    Preparing for baseless conjecture.

    Some people only use facts. You know, just sayin'.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  9. #849
    So let me try and break down this logic.

    - Liberals yell and scream that they support Obamacare.
    - Economists warn way ahead of time about the increased costs.
    - Liberals denounce it.
    - Obamacare starts coming into effect.
    - Businesses everywhere start to adjust for these costs.
    - Liberals yell and scream that adjusting is mean and unethical.

    Am I following?

  10. #850
    Quote Originally Posted by Rimrot View Post
    You do realize that there are billionaire democraps who've ordered lay offs in their companies because the company could not afford health care costs. Papa Johns has the balls to say the reason they're laying off people.

    What I find incredibly sad and pathetic is that democraps will boycott a company, thus making it even further difficult to generate revenue. Moreover, the guy has spent his entire career building a business which employees thousands around the world, yet you're going to bitch and cry because he's been paid well for his accomplishment?

    Without men and women who roll the dice, risk themselves financially and their career to build a dream you wouldn't have many of the companies which employee sometimes hundreds of thousands of people, yet you're crying because they've been compensated for that?
    I dont believe that I will get a well crafted pizza that passion went into cooking from a workforce that is disregarded - you get what you pay for, happy employees are good employees

  11. #851
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    So let me try and break down this logic.

    - Liberals yell and scream that they support Obamacare.
    - Economists warn way ahead of time about the increased costs.
    - Liberals denounce it.
    - Obamacare starts coming into effect.
    - Businesses everywhere starting to adjust for these costs.
    - Liberals yell and scream that adjusting is mean and unethical.

    Am I following?
    Oh boy, strawman time. But I suppose rewording the argument to attempt to attack others far supersedes maintaining an objective view of reality.

  12. #852
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Oh boy, strawman time. But I suppose rewording the argument to attempt to attack others far supersedes maintaining an objective view of reality.
    Tell me where I'm wrong.

    It seems pretty fucking accurate to me.

  13. #853
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    I'd also like to add some food for thought...

    We have millionaire celebrities, that tell us who we should vote for, lambaste the opposition, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire musicians, that sing about how fucked up one side is over the other, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire athletes, who we call role models, talk all day about, root for their teams, yet they provide nothing to society.

    In fact we look up to all these people and damn near deify them in their own right. We want to look like them, dress like them, throw a ball like them, yet they really do not contribute to society.

    Yet here we have people...who give people jobs....JOBS...and you are going to speak of them like they are the worst people in the world.

  14. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    I'd also like to add some food for thought...

    We have millionaire celebrities, that tell us who we should vote for, lambaste the opposition, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire musicians, that sing about how fucked up one side is over the other, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire athletes, who we call role models, talk all day about, root for their teams, yet they provide nothing to society.

    In fact we look up to all these people and damn near deify them in their own right. We want to look like them, dress like them, throw a ball like them, yet they really do not contribute to society.

    Yet here we have people...who give people jobs....JOBS...and you are going to speak of them like they are the worst people in the world.
    so in your eyes, A guy selling pizza is more valuable to society than Universal healthcare? cmon man, if you arent trolling you should be ashamed
    Last edited by undercovergnome; 2012-11-16 at 07:45 PM.

  15. #855
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    Tell me where I'm wrong.

    It seems pretty fucking accurate to me.
    Yes, because attacking a strawman is really damn productive.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  16. #856
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Yes, because attacking a strawman is really damn productive.
    Again, tell me where I'm wrong. I welcome it.

    Don't be a talking parrot.

  17. #857
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    I'd also like to add some food for thought...

    We have millionaire celebrities, that tell us who we should vote for, lambaste the opposition, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire musicians, that sing about how fucked up one side is over the other, yet provide nothing to society.
    We have millionaire athletes, who we call role models, talk all day about, root for their teams, yet they provide nothing to society.

    In fact we look up to all these people and damn near deify them in their own right. We want to look like them, dress like them, throw a ball like them, yet they really do not contribute to society.
    Then stop watching movies, listening to music, and watching sports. No one is forcing you to throw money at them...

  18. #858
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    Tell me where I'm wrong.

    It seems pretty fucking accurate to me.
    Misconstruing the purpose of obamacare as well as the economic reasons behind it (when the numbers work out, the cost isn't nearly as high as the GOP cries about since it saves money in a number of areas), as well as the reasons behind it
    I could be wrong, but while parts of Obamacare have been implemented, it has not been put in in its entirety yet.
    Businesses always have to adjust costs. Its just how things work, and ultimately if a business cannot adapt to a new business setting it will die out. Papa Johns drastically overreacted and made a public spectacle hyperbolizing the cost to his company, especially given that his competition would be facing increased costs as well. It was, therefore, not a rational adaptation but a serious blunder that has already begun to hurt his company.
    No one is saying that when met with increased costs measures must be taken into account to balance the new costs out. The objection is that the costs are being passed entirely onto the workers when the cost is not as high as the CEO estimated, and there is a massive surplus for upper management that doesn't justify passing it onto the workers even if he were not to raise the price of his pizzas by a minute amount.

    Its funny how things change when you actually apply logic and reason to a situation rather than looking at it in terms of black or white.

  19. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Misconstruing the purpose of obamacare as well as the economic reasons behind it (when the numbers work out, the cost isn't nearly as high as the GOP cries about since it saves money in a number of areas), as well as the reasons behind it
    I could be wrong, but while parts of Obamacare have been implemented, it has not been put in in its entirety yet.
    Businesses always have to adjust costs. Its just how things work, and ultimately if a business cannot adapt to a new business setting it will die out. Papa Johns drastically overreacted and made a public spectacle hyperbolizing the cost to his company, especially given that his competition would be facing increased costs as well. It was, therefore, not a rational adaptation but a serious blunder that has already begun to hurt his company.
    No one is saying that when met with increased costs measures must be taken into account to balance the new costs out. The objection is that the costs are being passed entirely onto the workers when the cost is not as high as the CEO estimated, and there is a massive surplus for upper management that doesn't justify passing it onto the workers even if he were not to raise the price of his pizzas by a minute amount.

    Its funny how things change when you actually apply logic and reason to a situation rather than looking at it in terms of black or white.
    So should the cost be entirely passed onto the pizzas? It sounded like Papa Johns was doing a split between the pizzas and the workers.

    If it was entirely passed onto the business, the price increase would be much larger. Surely lowering demand.

    And that isn't what anyone wants.

    Or are you suggesting the company should just eat the profit loss?
    Last edited by Riidii; 2012-11-16 at 08:00 PM.

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    So should the cost be entirely passed onto the pizzas? It sounded like Papa Johns was doing a split between the pizzas and the workers.

    If it was entirely passed onto the business, the price increase would be much larger. Surely lowering demand.

    And that isn't what anyone wants.
    Show me one person who would change the amount of pizza he would eat, because of a 10 cents increase. In return I will show you a person who should not be eating out.


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