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  1. #961
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpy View Post
    This is pretty damn pitiful, even for you.
    What, you missed the Chicago teachers strike where they used their students as props?
    You missed the demonstrations in AZ and CA where the teachers took their students to the protests? Seriously? you missed that?

    with the amount of money the US spends on student education they should be first in everything... but they are only first in spending and teacher strikes.

    So you are damn right I blame the teachers and those pulling their strings.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal.

  2. #962
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    My point is that if you want to help poor people, I'm all ears, but 74 years of minimum wage increases have done NOTHING for poor people in the long term aside from cause ridiculous rises in inflation rates.

    Why can't we just call it a failed experiment and move on to solutions that might actually work? Like the Negative Income Tax!
    You're hilariously oversimplifying an incredibly complicated mechanism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    My point is that if you want to help poor people, I'm all ears, but 74 years of minimum wage increases have done NOTHING for poor people in the long term aside from cause ridiculous rises in inflation rates.
    Inflation's low and the only way we've been able to pretend poverty is the same it's always been is by ignoring levels of absolute income.

  4. #964
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    You're hilariously oversimplifying an incredibly complicated mechanism.
    Am I oversimplifying? It sure doesn't feel like that.

    I take a monetarist approach to inflation because that makes the most sense to me. Price-fixing has a pretty poor history of working.

    I think after 74 years of the Minimum Wage, the left owes us a status report on how it's actually faring at increasing the standard of living for the poor, don't you?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 06:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Inflation's low and the only way we've been able to pretend poverty is the same it's always been is by ignoring levels of absolute income.
    Inflation is currently low. Look at what happened historically, though.

    The correlation is awfully strong between the minimum wage introduction/increases and high inflation.

  5. #965
    Am I oversimplifying? It sure doesn't feel like that.
    Sure you are. There are lots of factors for inflation. There are lots of factors for purchasing power. Lots of factors for poverty etc etc etc. If you want to say the minimum wage has failed because its a bad policy you need to account for all the factors involved in povery and inflation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  6. #966
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Inflation is currently low. Look at what happened historically, though.
    Relative to what? Sometimes it's high and sometimes it's low. It's a lot more stable than it was before minimum wage though. I'm not at all suggesting that minimum wage stabilizes inflation, I think there's very little causal relationship between them.

  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Relative to what? Sometimes it's high and sometimes it's low. It's a lot more stable than it was before minimum wage though. I'm not at all suggesting that minimum wage stabilizes inflation, I think there's very little causal relationship between them.
    The minimum wage didn't come along much later than the incorporation of the Federal Reserve, a body whose sole job is to control inflation. Which do you think is more likely to have eased the inflation of the 1800s?

  8. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by Riidii View Post
    Hey!

    Let's be mad at Boeing now!

    "Boeing announced a major restructuring of its defense division on Wednesday that will cut 30 percent of management jobs from 2010 levels, close facilities in California and consolidate several business units to cut costs."

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49729998/Boei...fense_Division

    I feel like I might be doing this for awhile. Damn those businesses.
    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/108966979.html
    EVERETT, Wash. (AP) - Boeing Co. is hiring machinists as it starts ramping up production.

    The Daily Herald of Everett reports that Boeing has added nearly 1,000 production workers in the past eight weeks, including about 190 it plans to hire Friday.

    The Machinists union says that would be the highest number of new machinists hired by Boeing in a single week since 2005.

    After slowing some production lines because of the recession, Boeing says it will speed up its 737, 777 and 747 programs next year.

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    The minimum wage didn't come along much later than the incorporation of the Federal Reserve, a body whose sole job is to control inflation. Which do you think is more likely to have eased the inflation of the 1800s?
    That's why I said I don't see a causal relationship between the minimum wage and inflation.

    Is there some evidence I'm unaware of for such a relationship? I'm always interested in looking at actual data.

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    its called finality, not spite. They were probably waiting to see if Obamacare would be overturned, now that isn't gonna happen. So, they acted accordingly.
    But, they are not waiting to see what happens nor did they know what exectly Romney was going to do with Obamacare, as he promised to keep provisions that were popular, like removal of pre-existing conditions. It's not finality, because it's preemptive.

  11. #971
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Sure you are. There are lots of factors for inflation. There are lots of factors for purchasing power. Lots of factors for poverty etc etc etc. If you want to say the minimum wage has failed because its a bad policy you need to account for all the factors involved in povery and inflation.
    Ignore Laize; we went at it about a week ago. He literally cannot conceive that these things have multiple effects.

    with the amount of money the US spends on student education they should be first in everything... but they are only first in spending and teacher strikes.
    American teachers are notoriously overworked and underpaid compared to teachers in more successful systems.
    Last edited by Zhangfei; 2012-11-17 at 06:35 AM.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  12. #972
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    People will do the same thing on a personal level as well. Blaming a politician for failure beats the shit out of introspection.
    Blaming a former administration for your own failures is popular as well.

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrulerxxx View Post
    People are boycotting companies like this because of what reason?? business??

    Newsflash, this is just the beginning and it's going to happen when obamacare forces companies to adapt to this new thing.

    You can't be mad for companies wanting to make profits, that's how business works. you vote for obamacare, expect the shitstorm to be happening.
    Yes, you can be mad at them. It's our right as citizens to be mad if we want to.

    However, you're right, this is just the beginning. There are going to be a lot of companies cutting full-time people down to part time and hiring more part-time people to fill those hours, just so they don't have to pay for the health care.

    That's the huge huge problem with ObamaCare, this is a massive massive massive massive loophole that allows companies to screw over the average to below average wage earner. Hourly employees are going to get screwed big time by this if something isn't done about it.

    ObamaCare will probably put more people out of health care and fined by the government because of this than there were before.

  14. #974
    Quote Originally Posted by cymraeg13 View Post
    Blaming a former administration for your own failures is popular as well.
    I've never gotten why people think an administration in power for 8 years just stops having an effect as soon as someone else is in office.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  15. #975
    Greed is such a sad thing, these rich assholes really need to all be thrown into a room and kicked in the nuts repeatedly. I'm so, so glad I don't live in the US, your government and large cooperations are pathetic, neither seem to care about the people and only themselves and bickering at each other to fix a thing.

  16. #976
    However, you're right, this is just the beginning. There are going to be a lot of companies cutting full-time people down to part time and hiring more part-time people to fill those hours, just so they don't have to pay for the health care.
    You know what happens when a business cuts its compensation? Businesses that can offer better compensation get their workers. You can't cut compensation without negative consequences on your business.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  17. #977
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    So you are damn right I blame the teachers and those pulling their strings.
    Because if we had teachers that were willing to take the way things are, things would be better? Teachers using their right is a bad thing? It doesn't take string pulling to want a better living, it's what everyone wants. I do not know if it's string pulling or just insanity, but blaming those who are responsible for the education of our country when their working conditions are sub par, is absurd. We should pay teachers more, to attract better teachers.

  18. #978
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Local pizzerias have better pizza anyways
    Synek - best rogue in the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by cymraeg13 View Post
    Blaming a former administration for your own failures is popular as well.
    We are just supposed to ignore why things are the way they are? Blaming Clinton became too unpopular?

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by cymraeg13 View Post
    Blaming a former administration for your own failures is popular as well.
    Can you provide an example of this occurring? Please by very specific. Don't show me Obama blaming Bush, show me Obama blaming Bush for something that was actually an Obama failure.

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