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  1. #1

    So that original arms beta idea...

    Essentially based around the notion of execute always being available, but you had to build up to it. And damage/rage income was balanced around essentially filling most every global with slam/ms until you build up enough of an excess to throw in an execute. Since the current arms spec is "Garbage de Maximum" I'm gonna throw a version out. I hate the current arms spec so much. It's such a damn clusterfuck of design issues. BLARGH.

    1. Remove whirlwind
    2. Slam baseline
    3. thunderclap applies rend to current target
    4. No more burst tick at the end of rend
    5. Recklessness is removed
    6. Charge stuns and always generates rage in PvE

    The Mechanics

    1. Blood and Thunder - Granted when sweeping strikes is activated. Your next Thunderclap will afflict all hit targets with rend
    2. Sweeping Strikes - Allows mortal strike to hit all nearby enemies, 2 targets for all other attacks. Can be refreshed pandemic style.
    3. Thunderclap - 9 sec cooldown. Hit decently hard, 20 rage cost
    4. Slam - filler attack, low rage cost, low damage
    5. Mortal Strike - hit hard, generates 10 rage
    6. Headlong Rush remains as is

    Execute - 60 rage. 8 second cooldown when used on targets above 20% (reduce damage against player targets probably called for, maybe 15%)
    Executioner - Reduces rage cost of execute by 50% when used on a target below 20% for 10 seconds

    Mastery: Blade Master - Mortal Strike, Colossus Smash, and Execute have a 10% chance to reset colossus smash and increase damage by 30% (both scale with mastery). Increases the damage of Storm Bolt, Dragon Roar, Ravager, Siegebreaker, Bladestorm, and Shockwave by 10% (scales with mastery)

    Enhanced Rend Perk - successful slam and execute against targets afflicted with rend have a 10% chance to cause Fatal Wound. (just the old burst tick but triggered by an attack, to balance the ease of aoe spreading rend, and because the current enhanced rend perk is awful)

    Recklessness - This is gone. Replaced with Deadly Calm.
    -Deadly Calm - Increases rage generation from all sources by 50% and removes cooldown from execute for 12 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.

    Level 45 Talents

    So a few things would need to change here.

    Taste for Blood - Execute now has a 20% chance to trigger fatal wound
    Sudden Death - Chance on hit to reduce execute cost by 30 rage
    Focused Rage - Mortal Strike reduces rage cost of execute by 7. Stacks consumed upon using execute.

    Defensives

    Only three things.

    1. Iron Skin - New Passive - Reduces all magical damage taken by 10%
    2. Second Wind - 25% leech below 50% health, heals 5% health over 4 seconds when a stun or root is applied to the warrior
    3. Defensive Stance - Arms and Fury only. Gain rage from damage taken and reduce rage gain from auto attacks. Reward us for good defensive stance play on big raid damage, instead of it just being a straight up punishment like it is now. It would be about 50% effective as the PvP bonus currently is in my mind.
    Last edited by Artunias; 2015-05-02 at 08:35 PM.

  2. #2
    A major step in the right direction.
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  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Kostattoo's Avatar
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    For the mechanics: Mastery has to be something easier to grasp for players. It doesn't have to be complicated or give too much. Giving cs and increased dmg that scale might be a tad too much consdering you want this and 10% for the rest.

    Defensives: Defensive stance will be either too powerfull when there is alot of dmg or too shite when there is too little. There has to be some tradeoff for gettign less dmg or ppl will be sitting on def stance alot again. Something like, reduces dmg by 20%? then it reduces rage gained by 20-50% as well.

    Rest seem fine overall, skeptical about the non reckless, cause those executes at the end without high crit...
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  4. #4
    I feel like Sweeping Strikes should be toggled like Blade Flurry, I find it really irritating to have to constantly rebuff it. Maybe make it a stance that grants the SS effect + Blood and Thunder + whatever.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kostattoo View Post
    For the mechanics: Mastery has to be something easier to grasp for players. It doesn't have to be complicated or give too much. Giving cs and increased dmg that scale might be a tad too much consdering you want this and 10% for the rest.

    Defensives: Defensive stance will be either too powerfull when there is alot of dmg or too shite when there is too little. There has to be some tradeoff for gettign less dmg or ppl will be sitting on def stance alot again. Something like, reduces dmg by 20%? then it reduces rage gained by 20-50% as well.

    Rest seem fine overall, skeptical about the non reckless, cause those executes at the end without high crit...
    I might have worded the mastery poorly. Just so I know if we're on the same page or not, I wanted it to do the same thing it does now to increase MS/CS/Exe damage. Then also have a smaller chance to increase the talents and give a CS reset. The idea of a scaling on CS resets seemed cool to me. But could potentially be too much.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Fog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kostattoo View Post
    Rest seem fine overall, skeptical about the non reckless, cause those executes at the end without high crit...
    Keep in mind that the fury T17 4set is what makes Recklessness any good. Without it (i.e arms) Recklessness really isn't all that much, and honestly, unless it gets buffed, I won't miss it that much when it's gone. A trinket with crit (both on use and proc) does more than Recklessness atm. At least if feels like it.
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  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Kostattoo's Avatar
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    Yeah i know but the problem it doesn't give us enough rage to do something. We don't need the dmg increase. CS reset is a increase by itself in dmg you don't need dmg on top of cs reset, its too much and too bursty something they avoid too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fog View Post
    Keep in mind that the fury T17 4set is what makes Recklessness any good. Without it (i.e arms) Recklessness really isn't all that much, and honestly, unless it gets buffed, I won't miss it that much when it's gone. A trinket with crit (both on use and proc) does more than Recklessness atm. At least if feels like it.
    First of all, we talk about arms as you said, so fury is irrelevant. Arms dmg which comes mostly from executes sub 20%, which almost half of it is during reckless. If you don't get those big executes (coming from reckless being up with rest of cds) then execute doesn't hit all that much as its supposed to. So yeah mastery is good to execute but without crit its meh.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kostattoo View Post
    Yeah i know but the problem it doesn't give us enough rage to do something. We don't need the dmg increase. CS reset is a increase by itself in dmg you don't need dmg on top of cs reset, its too much and too bursty something they avoid too.
    This model I'm proposed would essentially be filing every global. the current rage starved issues shouldn't really be a thing. Also I did nerf mastery from the 36% base it has now to the 30%. With that being in mind that mastery is both more powerful and more widely applied. Either way, that's just a numbers thing that's easy to fix. The play style is what's most important.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kostattoo View Post
    First of all, we talk about arms as you said, so fury is irrelevant. Arms dmg which comes mostly from executes sub 20%, which almost half of it is during reckless. If you don't get those big executes (coming from reckless being up with rest of cds) then execute doesn't hit all that much as its supposed to. So yeah mastery is good to execute but without crit its meh.
    I think you're over estimating the power of recklessness by quite a bit. You get one colossus smash of executes with Reck, and even with Reck as arms you're only at 50-60% crit. Still a lot of rng to not crit there. Obviously execute crits are what win the damage, but recklessness's impact on those is a lot smaller than I think you're making it out to be.

  9. #9
    Please give this man a cookie! Really love your idea.

    Please note: following suggestions are made up with random numbers and are probably imbalanced (too weak/stronk):

    Though I would prefer something different to 'Deadly Calm' as your idea would only be useful for pure Singletarget only. And I dont like Major CDs that don't increase flat damage. My idea:
    - removes CD of MS and increases rage generated by MS to 30 and increases all damage done by 20% for 12sec

    So our rotation while Deadly Calm would be like:
    ST >20%: CS -> pop DC -> 2x MS -> Execute -> 2x MS -> Execute -> 2x MS -> Execute (exchange any MS for procced CS or Execute if excess rage)
    ST <20%: CS -> pop DC -> MS -> Execute -> MS -> Execute -> ... (exchange any MS for procced CS or Execute if excess rage)
    2/3-target-Cleave: as above but additionally pop SS and apply Rend on all targets via TC
    AoE: pop SS, apply Rend via TC, MS-spamfest

    Additionally, I would make Enraged Regeneration baseline for all Warrior specs (maybe nerf it to 20%) and balance our Lvl 30 talents around that:
    - Second Wind: heals the Warrior for 10% over 4sec after being victim of any CC except Snares and Fears
    - Crazed Berserker: grants the Warrior 20% Leech at all times (Fury/Arms only)
    - Tough Defender: heals the Warrior for 3% of total HP each 5sec (Protection only)
    - Impending Victory: Victory Rush is now usable at all times and has a CD of 30sec. Killing Blows won't reset the CD anymore.


    regarding Iron Skin:
    It's really not needed if Def-Stance was changed properly.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by chooi View Post
    Please give this man a cookie! Really love your idea.

    Please note: following suggestions are made up with random numbers and are probably imbalanced (too weak/stronk):

    Though I would prefer something different to 'Deadly Calm' as your idea would only be useful for pure Singletarget only. And I dont like Major CDs that don't increase flat damage. My idea:
    - removes CD of MS and increases rage generated by MS to 30 and increases all damage done by 20% for 12sec

    So our rotation while Deadly Calm would be like:
    ST >20%: CS -> pop DC -> 2x MS -> Execute -> 2x MS -> Execute -> 2x MS -> Execute (exchange any MS for procced CS or Execute if excess rage)
    ST <20%: CS -> pop DC -> MS -> Execute -> MS -> Execute -> ... (exchange any MS for procced CS or Execute if excess rage)
    2/3-target-Cleave: as above but additionally pop SS and apply Rend on all targets via TC
    AoE: pop SS, apply Rend via TC, MS-spamfest

    Additionally, I would make Enraged Regeneration baseline for all Warrior specs (maybe nerf it to 20%) and balance our Lvl 30 talents around that:
    - Second Wind: heals the Warrior for 10% over 4sec after being victim of any CC except Snares and Fears
    - Crazed Berserker: grants the Warrior 20% Leech at all times (Fury/Arms only)
    - Tough Defender: heals the Warrior for 3% of total HP each 5sec (Protection only)
    - Impending Victory: Victory Rush is now usable at all times and has a CD of 30sec. Killing Blows won't reset the CD anymore.


    regarding Iron Skin:
    It's really not needed if Def-Stance was changed properly.
    Cool deadly calm idea. Numbers probably a bit stronk, but easy enough to fix.

    I think the healing talent row is ok, but a few buffs in self heals would be alright. The main thing about Iron Skin is I feel like magic is our only weak point, defensive stance is good and plate is still noticeable against obliterate and such. An overall buff to d-stance would be too strong I think, but we could use some help in the magic department.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Artunias View Post
    I think the healing talent row is ok, but a few buffs in self heals would be alright. The main thing about Iron Skin is I feel like magic is our only weak point, defensive stance is good and plate is still noticeable against obliterate and such. An overall buff to d-stance would be too strong I think, but we could use some help in the magic department.
    My problem with our healing talents is that we don't have a choice really. In nearly all situations there is just no reason not to take ER because that 30% on-demand heal is just too good in comparison. That's why I would like to have ER baseline (maybe nerf to 20% and let it scale to a portion with AM) to give us the opportunity in specializing for certain situations: SW for mainly PVP, a passive low heal talent and another average on-demand heal (though I'm open for other cool ideas).

    Don't forget that D-Stance alone is a flat 20% decrease for all damage taken and that we already have DBTS. I think it would just be enough if they gave us the opportunity to sit in D-Stance if necessary without sacrificing all of our DPS output. Let's say, half the rage income via auto-hits (just a quick idea).

  12. #12
    For sure. It could be interesting if Enraged Regen was baseline and the healing tier turning into something like

    Second Wind - a non shit version
    Shield Wall
    Iron Skin?

    But you're point of actually having a choice depending on the situation. Something like that could definitely work.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Kostattoo's Avatar
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    ER baseline would be too powerful imo. Rather make the current 2nd wind baseline, a little on the weak side but good enough for a passive. In its place something like bt/ss/ms heals now for 5% or something like druids 5% healing aura, when its not healing yourself it heals raid.
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  14. #14
    I'm just going to ignore the numbers because that's what comes after.... The thing I'd like to touch on is how nice the rotation sounds. No more tab rend, good ol' slam and interesting management of rage during execute phase vs. (you have 2-3 target rended, TfB is doing its job, but the amount of rage consumed in the execute just nullifies the fun). Per now im like always above 60 rage pre 20% and when 20% im craving for the single drop of rage I can get it's just frustrating overall...

  15. #15
    all warrior needs is a massive buff to mortal strike
    also 50% ms again....deserved imo

  16. #16
    Dreadlord Bizerk's Avatar
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    The problem with the game right now is that blizzard aren't changing anything. Their new philosophy is to keep bad specs bad for a whole expansion because they think the majority of players have no idea how to play the game and read patch notes.

    I think their argument was "returning players" finding their character different. As if there are any of those.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Archimtiros's Avatar
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    It's two fold. While that reasoning has it's own merit (whether or not you agree with it), another key point is that it takes an awful lot of time and iteration to make big class changes, assuming they even have plans laid out to do so. Unfortunately that's time they simply don't have either in their work schedule, or time in between tiers to make changes happen. Consider that making big changes not only upsets whatever balance they have going during players progression, influences their gearing choices, roster choices, or even forces some players to decide they love/hate the new spec and do/not want to play it anymore... all in the middle of their guilds progression. This goes double when talking about multiple classes/specs and causing this kind of confusion for not one of a players characters but potentially many.

    I know we'd all rather see instantaneous results, but it is actually a much smarter decision to use the lead up time for planning and make all the changes at the same time, during the downtime between expansions where everyone can get a relatively clean start.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    It's two fold. While that reasoning has it's own merit (whether or not you agree with it), another key point is that it takes an awful lot of time and iteration to make big class changes, assuming they even have plans laid out to do so. Unfortunately that's time they simply don't have either in their work schedule, or time in between tiers to make changes happen. Consider that making big changes not only upsets whatever balance they have going during players progression, influences their gearing choices, roster choices, or even forces some players to decide they love/hate the new spec and do/not want to play it anymore... all in the middle of their guilds progression. This goes double when talking about multiple classes/specs and causing this kind of confusion for not one of a players characters but potentially many.

    I know we'd all rather see instantaneous results, but it is actually a much smarter decision to use the lead up time for planning and make all the changes at the same time, during the downtime between expansions where everyone can get a relatively clean start.
    Maybe they should have used all that time during beta and the development of WoD to get Arms right in the first place. It's not like they didn't have mountains of beta feedback to gain ideas from.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budong View Post
    Maybe they should have used all that time during beta and the development of WoD to get Arms right in the first place. It's not like they didn't have mountains of beta feedback to gain ideas from.
    I won't argue, but it's obvious they wanted to try something different. Just looking at the three Warrior specs and how greatly differentiated from one another they are (in theme, if not intent), makes me hope there was some grand experiment behind the concepts of design.

    A "lets see how players react to a much slower playstyle than they are used to (Arms), a much faster one than any other in the game (Glad) and one that is completely dependent on the random factor (Fury)."

    Unfortunately, all three are failures in my opinion. The answer isn't in one extreme or the other, at least not without options to balance it out, namely well balanced talents.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bizerk View Post
    I think their argument was "returning players" finding their character different. As if there are any of those.
    There was 3 million. They stuck around for 3 months and all left again.

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