1. #1

    90 talent for each boss

    Looking to see which 90 talents benefits the most from encounter to encounter, ill post my personal choice and I want to see others opinions.

    Vaults
    Stoneguards - KJ
    Feng - AV
    Gara'jal - AV
    Spirit Kings - KJ
    Elegon - MF
    Will - AV

    HoF
    Vizier - KJ(?) this one is weird to me, KJ helps a lot moving from discs etc however AV can be used during the huge raid aoe part of the fight too
    Blade Lord - KJ
    Garalon - KJ *sucks being a kiter
    Wind Lord - AV
    Amber - ?? Currently using AV during progress but thinking KJ will be better
    Grand Empress - ??

    ?? - Haven't done these fights/completed so not sure which is best

    Summary; the default "go-to" talent seems to be KJ, if you don't care about min maxing talents on fights just pick this one up and you're gravy
    Last edited by Destroyed; 2012-11-09 at 11:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome MisterSoup's Avatar
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    I agree with everything on the list so far, except for Elegon. I personally use Archimonde's Vengeance, because the damage returned through this ability is affected by both the 50% damage buff from the raid zone, and also the additional damage taken by Elegon after each cast of Draw Power.

    You can assume 4 orb waves killed each time the "draw phase" occurs, meaning Elegon casts Draw Power 5 times per full phase, That's a full 100% damage (50% after the first "draw phase," 100% after the second) that he takes from all sources, on top of the additional 50% done at all times while inside the raid zone.

    During the final phase, each little bit of DPS helps - that isn't news to anyone. This is where AV really starts to shine.

    Assume 40,000 damage taken per second (this is not at all accurate, as the damage you actually do take will ramp up throughout the phase, due to the "Overcharged" debuff. This is just a roughly-smoothed amount to consider the entire phase with.)

    At 40,000 damage taken per second, you are returning 5% of that damage, and then adding 50% more to that amount. That amount is then multiplied by 100% for the actual amount dealt to Elegon.

    ((40000 * 0.05) * 1.5) * 2) = 6,000 damage dealt PASSIVELY per second to Elegon

    Once you use the ability to get it's full effect, this amount is actually REALLY noticeable.

    ((40000 * 0.25) * 1.5) * 2) = 30,000 damage dealt to Elegon for the duration of the effect. Afterwards, all damage contribution from AV will expire for the remainder of the phase.

    Again, these amounts are accurate mathwise, just to give you a general idea of how much hurt you can pump into Elegon during the final phase with minimal effort. The actual amounts being returned will vary with your debuff stacks and other factors. But this really does add up to an extreme amount of damage per execute time.

    Note: I know a lot of people take Mannoroth's Fury for the additional AoE range for sparks and orbs, but I really don't think it's necessary. If you use Harvest Life for spark damage, and get used to casting a SB: SoC right as Elegon is finishing his casts of Draw Power, you really shouldn't need the extra AoE range.

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterSoup View Post
    I((40000 * 0.25) * 1.5) * 2) = 30,000 damage dealt to Elegon for the duration of the effect. Afterwards, all damage contribution from AV will expire for the remainder of the phase.
    Over 8 seconds, that is a grand total of 240k damage. That's less than what a single Haunt would deal. A fel flame in a global would deal almost half of that... and that's the worst DPET ability we have. For an entire talent point, that ability is just underwhelming.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome MisterSoup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Over 8 seconds, that is a grand total of 240k damage. That's less than what a single Haunt would deal. A fel flame in a global would deal almost half of that... and that's the worst DPET ability we have. For an entire talent point, that ability is just underwhelming.
    Again, the numbers themselves aren't accurate, only the math behind them. You'll actually only be taking about 24,000 damage per second baseline, increasing by 5% continuously. I let the 5% portion of AV take care of this one.

    I use the active effect of this after 10 stacks, and continue to take additional stacks until the effect expires. Note that I ONLY do this because our healers aren't having any difficulties keeping people alive during this phase, and I'm keeping Dark Bargain, Healthstone, Mortal Coil and Unending Resolve all close-by to prevent myself from dying.

    Over the entire course of the encounter this past week, AV contributed 1 million damage to my total, and almost entirely passive. If that was a raid cooldown, a weapon proc, a set bonus or anything, it would be considered almost mandatory. Most of this was also dealt during that final phase (amounting to about 400,000 damage), which is easily the most crucial phase in the encounter. I've had wipes on bosses with less health than that, so it really can help cement a kill.

    Keep in mind that, since there isn't that much movement during the final phase (none except for clearing debuff stacks) and there is absolutely no AoE, the other two talents don't contribute to this at all. ALSO, the amount returned through this talent will be even higher on Heroic, so take that into consideration.

    After all is said and done, my point is just this: the final phase is easily the most crucial for damage, and this talent really does shine for that phase. The other two talents, however, contribute nothing to it.
    Last edited by MisterSoup; 2012-11-06 at 07:54 PM.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Haizer's Avatar
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    I agree with nearly all of those, except for Gara'jal. I found that using MF for the shadow realm is absolutely amazing. You can dot nearly all of them with SB: SoC(Aff obviously). I have found more use for it than AV, which is great for dolls, but not really useful overall.

  6. #6
    mannoroths is good for elegon

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterSoup View Post
    I agree with everything on the list so far, except for Elegon. I personally use Archimonde's Vengeance, because the damage returned through this ability is affected by both the 50% damage buff from the raid zone, and also the additional damage taken by Elegon after each cast of Draw Power.

    You can assume 4 orb waves killed each time the "draw phase" occurs, meaning Elegon casts Draw Power 5 times per full phase, That's a full 100% damage (50% after the first "draw phase," 100% after the second) that he takes from all sources, on top of the additional 50% done at all times while inside the raid zone.
    Could you please elaborate on the timing for casting Archimonde's Vengeance. Do you cast it as soon as it is up or do you wait for a specific damage taking phase?

  8. #8
    Destruction:

    Stoneguards - Mannoroth's Fury
    Feng - Mannoroth's Fury
    Gara'jal - Mannoroth's Fury
    Spirit Kings - Mannoroth's Fury/KjC. Depends on if I'm on MC break out duty or not
    Elegon - Mannoroth's Fury
    Will - Mannoroth's Fury


    Vizier - KJC
    Blade Lord - KJC
    Garalon - Mannoroth's Fury
    Wind Lord - KJC? It doesn't really matter a whole lot on this fight but KJC at least helps for breaking people out.
    Amber - Mannoroth's Fury. Increased range for RoF is great for blood damage
    Grand Empress - AV could be good, but I'm using MF for the increased range for the add phase


    Affliction:

    Stoneguards - KJC
    Feng - KJC
    Gara'jal - Mannoroth's Fury
    Spirit Kings - KjC.
    Elegon - Mannoroth's Fury
    Will - KJC


    Vizier - KJC
    Blade Lord - KJC
    Garalon - Mannoroth's Fury
    Wind Lord - KJC
    Amber - Mannoroth's Fury. Increased range for SoC is great for blood damage
    Grand Empress - AV could be good, but I'm using MF for the increased range for the add phase (shameless copy and paste here :P)

  9. #9
    Huh... MF for the spirit realm. Seems almost overkill, least on 10s especially if going down with a Boomkin regularly? Also, MF also seems overkill. Not to mention, hardly anybody that actually has ranked is using SoC, much less not have AV.
    Last edited by Moggie; 2012-11-09 at 07:01 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Moggie View Post
    Huh... MF for the spirit realm. Seems almost overkill, least on 10s especially if going down with a Boomkin regularly? Also, MF also seems overkill. Not to mention, hardly anybody that actually has ranked is using SoC, much less not have AV.
    No boomkin for one, two using MF means that FnB can generate you embers in the spirit realm when adds are up. That lets you havoc the two large adds down bottom and then come up with 4 embers for CDs/Buff.


    If you're talking about affliction, that's just what I used for the first kill, ever since then I've been destro as it's just better for the fight in terms of boss damage with our comp.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    You havnt stated if this is normal or heroic, and in what spec.

    They all pretty much suck anyway...

  12. #12
    Aint the 20% snare from KJC bad for Vizier attenuation phase ?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by n0n3 View Post
    Aint the 20% snare from KJC bad for Vizier attenuation phase ?
    If you start off in the right direction quickly you can easily follow the circle even with 2 stacks.

  14. #14
    You need MF on Elegon for Energy Charges, without you'll have maybe 2 SoCs hit before going out of range. This outweighs the benefit of AV.

  15. #15
    AV for Voodoo Dolls sounds like it would be a good idea.
    I did Gara'jal for the first time last night with the same impression, when he casts voodoo dolls on me I will pop AV and he will take that much more damage - and I have to say I was very disappointed in it.

    Over 9 attempts, AV did 55k damage. Now you might say "Well you weren't voodoo dolled that often were you?" On the contrary, I was voodoo dolled over those 9 attempts for a total of 7 minutes, and 36 seconds. On attempt 6 is when I realized that it wasn't doing anything for me. I looked over recount to see how much damage it did (this is the fight I actually had a chance to cast it), and it did 3115 damage. My melee hits harder then that. On the kill attempt Voodoo Dolls was on me for a total of 120 seconds, and Archimode's Vengeance passive did 0 damage.

    This report pretty much confirms that AV for Gara'jal is garbage.

    *Edit*, after looking at the actual numbers Archimode's Vengeance actually does in my logs, the only fight where it will have a real benefit is Feng. And even then the damage is so minimal (~280-300k damage) that any other talent would be more beneficial. I would say go with MF, but only because I am demo and movement really doesn't hurt my DPS unless I am mana and fury starved (which I have never been both). So far though I haven't seen a fight outside of Will of the Emperor or Elegon where MF would do any good. So at least for demo, I would go with MF until Blizzard realizes how weak these talents really are in the current content and fixes them.

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