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  1. #41
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordsgamer315 View Post
    The funny thing is that I bet you could not say one thing that the measles or mumps actually did to threaten your life that was worse then what the vaccine itself is doing.
    Wow. That's just ignorant.

    I realize you won't actually read or do anything with the information we present, so I'm probably wasting my time, but the practice of inoculation has reduced the threat of endemic disease to a level where the average person (like you) is ignorant of what the effects of so-called "childhood diseases" were. They killed people, mostly children, but anyone with a compromised immune system, and in greater quantities than you'd think.

    But, no, "oh, they give autism!"

    (sigh)

  2. #42
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Also, if you're going to argue that shots are useless because you never get sick, you can thank herd immunity, which is a result of people getting vaccinated.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by lordsgamer315 View Post
    The funny thing is that I bet you could not say one thing that the measles or mumps actually did to threaten your life that was worse then what the vaccine itself is doing.
    Well, yes, I can. It's not very hard at all, really. For children (who the vaccines you've mentioned are targeted at), the mortality rate in non-vaccinated populations is nontrivial, with hundreds of thousands of people dying annually, and the figure being in the millions before vaccination (source). Vaccines, by contrast, have very mild side effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordsgamer315 View Post
    So as a must, the illnesses are not as dangerous as the vaccines that are supposed to make you immune to them
    This is plainly false. See above.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordsgamer315 View Post
    which to me, disqualifies them as a must, and even things like smallpox almost does not exist, and even if someone were to get it today that was unimmunized, assuming the vaccines worked the way you think they do, we have the medical knowledge and capabilities to deal with it post-illness to make it almost not-threatening. Most diseases were only so dangerous as they were because of the lack of knowledge and ability to do something.
    This is a spectacularly bad analysis of the risk-reward involved. Please inform yourself before forming opinions.

  4. #44
    Brewmaster Desareon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by variant126 View Post
    The vaccine killed more people then the actual flue? This is complete bullshit post your source.[COLOR="red"]
    The only people who died from H1N1, were people who already had a shitty immune system. It was pretty much just like the common cold for most health people. Vaccine cause countless cases of GBS, which is a death sentence in its own. Don't be lazy and fucking google shit.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html
    http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/gbs_qa.htm
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/canada-...-vaccine/16192
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...heir-Toll.aspx
    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500165_162-5246940.html
    http://www.infowars.com/farrakhan-sa...o-kill-people/
    http://digitaljournal.com/article/280790
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/india-re...-children.html

    Not sure about this video though, little speculative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URHhyP4lmQ4

    What is GBS: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/gbs/gbs.htm
    Last edited by Desareon; 2012-11-11 at 05:26 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Also, if you're going to argue that shots are useless because you never get sick, you can thank herd immunity, which is a result of people getting vaccinated.
    i'd just let to take a moment to thank the herd for enabling me to live my life both needle and illness free. you guys rock.
    "Just because you read it on the internet, doesn't mean the person actually said it." - Thomas Jefferson

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    While it isn't a must, I'd recommend them. Most people who are against most shots are to stupid to even know what the shots are for. (talking about people wh o are against ALL shots)
    Well if we are opening up the subject to Shots in general then it is stupid to oppose them outright because they are shots, there are many good ones used today.

    But on the relevancy of the topic, of vaccine shots, none of them provide actual immunity as people are lead to believe, and all of them have equal or worse side effects to the disease itself. Yes I know death is a certainty in anything, walking outside you could get hit by a car, but when a drug has been given a warning that it may cause death, and many many other things, and you see that the thing is for the flu, which typically is not anywhere near lifethreatening given proper care, ie. allowing your body to fight it while providing the nutrition your body needs to do so, then one would be wiser to question the need of the vaccine. I mean most diseases nowadays that you can get a vaccine for are treatable after you get them, while the vaccine does not provide immunity and most of them time actually gives you the disease to some extent.

    But to talk about good shots and bad shots, consider Tetanus, a bacteria based infection, keywords are bacteria and infection. There are two shots for tetanus, the pre-tetanus shot, the vaccine, and the post-tetanus shot, the anti-biotic. Since it is bacteria and an infection the vaccine is useless since you cannot immunize against a bacteria or an infection, you can only try to avoid it and then treat it once it happens. Not to mention tetanus is not when you step on a nail, or get cut by metal. It is when you get cut, and some nasty dirt and stuff gets in there (read feces, and such) and cause an infection. The vaccine cannot prevent your cutting yourself on something that was contaminated, nor can it prevent an infection, but the post-shot can treat the infection, and aid in the removal of the bacteria, though it does not immunize you, so if you get cut by a contaminated thing again you get the tetanus shot again.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    The only people who died from H1N1, were people who already had a shitty immune system. It was pretty much just like the common cold for most health people. Vaccine cause countless cases of GBS, which is a death sentence in its own. Don't be lazy and fucking google shit.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/027956_H1N1_vaccine_CDC.html
    http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/gbs_qa.htm
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/canada-...-vaccine/16192
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...heir-Toll.aspx
    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500165_162-5246940.html
    http://www.infowars.com/farrakhan-sa...o-kill-people/
    http://digitaljournal.com/article/280790
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/india-re...-children.html

    And dozens more.

    What is GBS: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/gbs/gbs.htm
    When he asked for a source, he meant scientific sources, not Alex Jones, Mike Adams, and Louis Farakahn.

    The reality is that the influenza virus has killed almost untold people, ranging up into the millions in the worst individual years. That you have the luxury to believe it's no big deal at all is because you've never seen the force of an influenza epidemic. That's because of vaccines.

  8. #48
    Measles, mumps, smallpox, even hpv and meningitis I've had. I don't think I've ever had a flu shot.

    I get sick at least once a year, but the thing is, it's almost never the FLU. End of last month I had stinkin' bronchitis. If I had unlimited money though, I'd probably get a flu shot. I just don't know that it'd do any good.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Every time I get a Flu shot, I get the Flu. So the last 3 years or so, no shot, no flu, coincidence?
    Same here. I have gotten the flu shot 4 times, and I have gotten the flu four times. They were the all the same years. Flu shot, then the flu. No flu shot, haven't gotten the flu.

    I get plenty of other vaccines. All the required ones for school plus meningitis and I stay up to date on tetanus
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Stop out of topic conversation, or I'll show you my giant hammer.

    PS: The hammer is my penis.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by hellosaltygoodness View Post
    i'd just let to take a moment to thank the herd for enabling me to live my life both needle and illness free. you guys rock.
    Freeriding isn't really cool. I mean, if you have a legitimate, clinical level phobia, I defer. But if you just don't really feel like getting shots, suck it up and head in.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 12:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rayden54 View Post
    Measles, mumps, smallpox, even hpv and meningitis I've had. I don't think I've ever had a flu shot.

    I get sick at least once a year, but the thing is, it's almost never the FLU. End of last month I had stinkin' bronchitis. If I had unlimited money though, I'd probably get a flu shot. I just don't know that it'd do any good.
    If you want a flu shot, but don't want to pay money, there's a lot of local clinics that will offer them for free during flu season.

  11. #51
    Not here I don't think. Middle of nowhere's not great for that sort of thing. The health department charges, and that's the only place I can think of. All the other places are commercial: CVS, Wal-Mart, a few other stores.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Well, yes, I can. It's not very hard at all, really. For children (who the vaccines you've mentioned are targeted at), the mortality rate in non-vaccinated populations is nontrivial, with hundreds of thousands of people dying annually, and the figure being in the millions before vaccination (source). Vaccines, by contrast, have very mild side effects.

    This is plainly false. See above.

    This is a spectacularly bad analysis of the risk-reward involved. Please inform yourself before forming opinions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Telwar View Post
    Wow. That's just ignorant.

    I realize you won't actually read or do anything with the information we present, so I'm probably wasting my time, but the practice of inoculation has reduced the threat of endemic disease to a level where the average person (like you) is ignorant of what the effects of so-called "childhood diseases" were. They killed people, mostly children, but anyone with a compromised immune system, and in greater quantities than you'd think.

    But, no, "oh, they give autism!"

    (sigh)
    I like how both of you describe me as both ignorant and uninformed, when as a father of 4, I have done my research, so that I do not blindly inject things into my kids or myself. I have spent the past 5 or so years researching vaccines and the pros and cons of them, and throughout my research I have found many disturbing things. I honestly could get with my wife and post many upon many sources for why vaccines are not as good as you think they are, but why would I waste my time when you are obviously so for them already, and my sources are a little less biased then the WHO (World Health Organization). I mean you can go to the CDC and get ingredient lists, though looking through the reactions they only list the significantly reported events, keyword reported. I have seen people have massive reactions to the most pointless vaccines and for what? To lose their child, or loved one to something they may have never gotten anyway, or even if they did would have been able to to be treated.

    So before you just wave me off as some brainless sheep just because my opinion, which I have gained through research, is different then yours, at least do yourself a favor and question everything. I don't care if anyone believes me or what I say, that is not the point, we need to take each other much less seriously, and stop acting as if our opinion is the only infallible one out there and actually do research. Don't take my word for it, don't take anyone's word for it, do the research yourself, from many sources not just biased one that are paid for their endorsement or their usage of vaccines, etc.

    Oh and i love the "But, no, "oh, they give autism!"" part, because I never mentioned that in any of my posts, so someone here has made a connection there regardless of people saying it or not. I do not vaccinate because of autism, I do not vaccinate because of the research I have done and feel it is not worth the risk the vaccines present, as has been said it is a risk/reward case, and each person needs to weigh those out for themselves.
    Last edited by lordsgamer315; 2012-11-11 at 05:44 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Freeriding isn't really cool. I mean, if you have a legitimate, clinical level phobia, I defer. But if you just don't really feel like getting shots, suck it up and head in.
    i do have a legitimate phobia, when i was a kid i had one snap off in my arm and since then i have been quite terrified of the things. so all the nice people who go vaccinate themselves to prevent illness from reaching me are really doing me a great big favour truly, thank you all.
    "Just because you read it on the internet, doesn't mean the person actually said it." - Thomas Jefferson

  14. #54
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellosaltygoodness View Post
    i'd just let to take a moment to thank the herd for enabling me to live my life both needle and illness free. you guys rock.
    Keep in mind that not getting vaccinated still puts you at risk of becoming an infection vector for others who aren't vaccinated.

  15. #55
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I can't take Flu shots. It has some egg in it and I'm allergic to it.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by lordsgamer315 View Post
    I like how both of you describe me as both ignorant and uninformed, when as a father of 4, I have done my research, so that I do not blindly inject things into my kids or myself. I have spent the past 5 or so years researching vaccines and the pros and cons of them, and throughout my research I have found many disturbing things. I honestly could get with my wife and post many upon many sources for why vaccines are not as good as you think they are, but why would I waste my time when you are obviously so for them already, and my sources are a little less biased then the WHO (World Health Organization). I mean you can go to the CDC and get ingredient lists, though looking through the reactions they only list the significantly reported events, keyword reported. I have seen people have massive reactions to the most pointless vaccines and for what? To lose their child, or loved one to something they may have never gotten anyway, or even if they did would have been able to to be treated.

    So before you just wave me off as some brainless sheep just because my opinion, which I have gained through research, is different then yours, at least do yourself a favor and question everything. I don't care if anyone believes me or what I say, that is not the point, we need to take each other much less seriously, and stop acting as if our opinion is the only infallible one out there and actually do research. Don't take my word for it, don't take anyone's word for it, do the research yourself, from many sources not just biased one that are paid for their endorsement or their usage of vaccines, etc.

    Oh and i love the "But, no, "oh, they give autism!"" part, because I never mentioned that in any of my posts, so someone here has made a connection there regardless of people saying it or not. I do not vaccinate because of autism, I do not vaccinate because of the research I have done and feel it is not worth the risk the vaccines present, as has been said it is a risk/reward case, and each person needs to weigh those out for themselves.
    I realize people generally expect long posts to be addressed with long posts. In this case, it's unnecessary. Let's boil it down to the basics - you claimed that people wouldn't be able to tell you how a disease is worse than the vaccine and I provided data regarding mortality rates. That's a clear and present reason, and your way of addressing it isn't to refute it with conflicting data, it's to say you're a dad and that you've got less biased sources than one of the world's most credible health institutions.

    Let's be perfectly fucking clear - not all opinions are equally valid. if you think the efficacy of vaccines is in doubt, let's have both of us take an AVA series and inhale anthrax spores. I'll take my chances, you'll die a terrible, painful death. The reality, as anyone who's ever done a shred of research (and by research, I don't mean googling things, I mean doing science that gets published) in the field will confirm for you is that the benefits of vaccines vastly outweigh the negatives. This isn't close, it isn't debatable, and even saying, "I have kids!" won't make it so.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 12:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hellosaltygoodness View Post
    i do have a legitimate phobia, when i was a kid i had one snap off in my arm and since then i have been quite terrified of the things. so all the nice people who go vaccinate themselves to prevent illness from reaching me are really doing me a great big favour truly, thank you all.
    I defer then! Yeah, I know some people have a legitimate abject horror of needles. I suppose if they had risk factors, I'd try to get them to go in for some vaccines, but it sounds like you're good to go (I think?). Hooray herd immunity!

    The only downside to herd immunity is that it enables absolute obliviousness on the part of some.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 12:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    I can't take Flu shots. It has some egg in it and I'm allergic to it.
    Yeah, this is from growing the virus; presently, it's usually grown in chicken eggs, and the antigens are isolated from there. The other day, I saw a presentation about development of mammalian cell lines that could possibly carry it that might mitigate this problem in the future. I have no idea how far off that is though.
    Last edited by Spectral; 2012-11-11 at 05:52 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Keep in mind that not getting vaccinated still puts you at risk of becoming an infection vector for others who aren't vaccinated.
    well then, maybe now they'll learn to go get vaccinated next time. ha.
    "Just because you read it on the internet, doesn't mean the person actually said it." - Thomas Jefferson

  18. #58
    The reason I don't like flu shots is thus:

    This year the company I work for was offering free flu shots to anyone who wanted them. I got said shot in my arm, and said arm hurt like hell for the rest of the day and somewhat hurt the day after that. I googled "Very sore arm after a flu shot" and was very surprised at the responses I seen. Some people have to live with the pain I experienced their WHOLE life simply because they wanted a flu vaccine, and some had the pain ongoing for years.

    I'm going to pass from now on >.>

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by hellosaltygoodness View Post
    well then, maybe now they'll learn to go get vaccinated next time. ha.
    Some people really, really can't. Immunocompromised folks and such.

  20. #60
    Every year I get a flu shot I get the flu, every year I skip it, I don't.

    Cut my hand pretty bad on a chair spring the other day (throwing out the chair since it had the spring popping out in the first place), in and out of the hospital in 45 minutes for my tetanus shot. It's not that I hate needles, I just hate getting sick from something that was supposed to make me getting sick less likely.

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