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  1. #61
    Brewmaster Desareon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    When he asked for a source, he meant scientific sources, not Alex Jones, Mike Adams, and Louis Farakahn.

    The reality is that the influenza virus has killed almost untold people, ranging up into the millions in the worst individual years. That you have the luxury to believe it's no big deal at all is because you've never seen the force of an influenza epidemic. That's because of vaccines.
    Like I said, google it. I just listed to the 8 from the search. Dozen more pages. The fact GBS has been linked to the vaccine is proof enough.

  2. #62
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellosaltygoodness View Post
    well then, maybe now they'll learn to go get vaccinated next time. ha.
    Being an ass about this is the wrong way to go. And you seem to have missed my post mentioning nasal vaccinations.

  3. #63
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellosaltygoodness View Post
    well then, maybe now they'll learn to go get vaccinated next time. ha.

    Allergic to eggs.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by reikoshea View Post
    Cut my hand pretty bad on a chair spring the other day (throwing out the chair since it had the spring popping out in the first place), in and out of the hospital in 45 minutes for my tetanus shot. It's not that I hate needles, I just hate getting sick from something that was supposed to make me getting sick less likely.
    You get that feeling a little off isn't quite the same thing as having tetanus, right? That tetanus causes remarkably painful muscle contractions, result in excruciating paralysis and eventual death? Really, on balance, feeling crummy for a day isn't so bad.

  5. #65
    Just throwing it out there, but the flu vaccine administered via needle is "dead", ie; you won't get the flu from it being injected into you. However the nasal spray is a live attenuated virus (its alive and in theory shouldn't give you a serious flu, but it does happen, but the plus side is either way you will be better protected)

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    Like I said, google it.
    I've spent a decade actively doing research in immunology. I don't mean using the google, I mean doing actual research, that gets published. The "google it bro" defense isn't going to impress me at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    I just listed to the 8 from the search. Dozen more pages.
    Yeah, there's a lot of fucking bullshit on the internet. This isn't exactly a secret. You linked Louis Farakahn's take on the matter. Do you realize that? Do you realize it doesn't make you look like you have any clue at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    The fact GBS has been linked to the vaccine is proof enough.
    Indeed, GBS is linked to vaccination; it's an occasional side effect, but fairly rare. Compared to the nature of the diseases prevented, it's a pretty easy cost-benefit to weigh. You realize that saying, "yeah, well, that turns out bad sometimes" isn't really an argument?

  7. #67
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willfox View Post
    Just throwing it out there, but the flu vaccine administered via needle is "dead", ie; you won't get the flu from it being injected into you. However the nasal spray is a live attenuated virus (its alive and in theory shouldn't give you a serious flu, but it does happen, but the plus side is either way you will be better protected)
    Not to mention that if you are worried about getting sick from the vaccine you can get it when being sick won't be a big hassle for you.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Some people really, really can't. Immunocompromised folks and such.
    thats a very good point, and i'm definitely being a real bitch to those people by not going myself. i'm still not going though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Being an ass about this is the wrong way to go. And you seem to have missed my post mentioning nasal vaccinations.
    sorry didn't see it, still don't. i have never heard of being vaccinated nasally but if that was an actual possibility with flu shots, i would probably do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willfox View Post
    Just throwing it out there, but the flu vaccine administered via needle is "dead", ie; you won't get the flu from it being injected into you. However the nasal spray is a live attenuated virus (its alive and in theory shouldn't give you a serious flu, but it does happen, but the plus side is either way you will be better protected)
    wow, apparently its pretty common then. i guess the doctor i never go to see for my shots never got the chance to tell me about it all the times i wasn't there D:
    "Just because you read it on the internet, doesn't mean the person actually said it." - Thomas Jefferson

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by hellosaltygoodness View Post
    tsorry didn't see it, still don't. i have never heard of being vaccinated nasally but if that was an actual possibility with flu shots, i would probably do that.

    wow, apparently its pretty common then. i guess the doctor i never go to see for my shots never got the chance to tell me about it all the times i wasn't there D:
    Yep, it's fairly common! I'm not sure what the public availability, but I know it's freely available for folks on the NIH campus during flu shot week. I'm under the impression that local clinics will offer both versions as long as supply holds.

  10. #70
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    I see this is a lost cause. Carry on then.

  11. #71
    Only time I got the flu was when they gave me the dam shot...Never again.

  12. #72
    I don't really ever get the flu shot but I'm not young or old and have the a incredibly strong immune system anyways believe I do considering I have been ill in over 4 years but those other viruses hell yes I'm getting a vaccine and I will probably get the flu shot when the time comes to start doing such a thing.

  13. #73
    Brewmaster Desareon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Yeah, there's a lot of fucking bullshit on the internet. This isn't exactly a secret. You linked Louis Farakahn's take on the matter. Do you realize that? Do you realize it doesn't make you look like you have any clue at all?
    I don't even know who that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I've spent a decade actively doing research in immunology. I don't mean using the google, I mean doing actual research, that gets published. The "google it bro" defense isn't going to impress me at all.
    I can't exactly post something I get from the library can I, or any other physical papers I can get a hold of?

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    I don't even know who that is.
    So, you're linking shit from crazy people you've never heard of. Stellar!

    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    I can't exactly post something I get from the library can I, or any other physical papers I can get a hold of?
    Is it 1994 again and I missed something?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    I've not taken a flu shot ever (or as long as I can remember, might've when I was too young to recall) and I've been just fine.


    Well, I've had the flu quite a few times. Like once every other year. But I think it's a small price to pay not to have the government read my thoughts outside of business hours.
    That's just silly. There's nothing like that in vaccines, it's in your toothpaste...it's in the toothpaste!

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 06:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    I don't even know who that is.



    I can't exactly post something I get from the library can I, or any other physical papers I can get a hold of?
    Google:scholar
    sciencedirect.com

    Online resources for peer reviewed papers. Likely a fair few will only let you read the abstract, maybe a bit more, but there are free ones.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I realize people generally expect long posts to be addressed with long posts. In this case, it's unnecessary. Let's boil it down to the basics - you claimed that people wouldn't be able to tell you how a disease is worse than the vaccine and I provided data regarding mortality rates. That's a clear and present reason, and your way of addressing it isn't to refute it with conflicting data, it's to say you're a dad and that you've got less biased sources than one of the world's most credible health institutions.

    Let's be perfectly ~ clear - not all opinions are equally valid. if you think the efficacy of vaccines is in doubt, let's have both of us take an AVA series and inhale anthrax. I'll take my chances, you'll die a terrible, painful death. The reality, as anyone who's ever done a shred of research (and by research, I don't mean googling things, I mean doing science that gets published) in the field will confirm for you is that the benefits of vaccines vastly outweigh the negatives. This isn't close, it isn't debatable, and even saying, "I have kids!" won't make it so.
    I said that you could not tell me one thing that made the disease worse then the vaccine that is for it, and all you provided me with was the info on the disease itself, nothing regarding the actual vaccine itself, except for that it is endorsed by WHO, which is the problem with your source, they are not unbiased, and they provide no sources for their numbers they give, nor proof that vaccines actually did it, or health itself improves. They themselves say that 95% of the deaths occur in low-income countries with weak health infrastructures, which is a significant number right there. I never once said that the diseases did not kill, nor that they were dangerous, I simply stated that the vaccines are just as much so in various ways. According to your info in, 2010 139,300 people died, 95% of which were in low-income countries with weak health infrastructure, which leaves only 6,965 deaths in more advanced countries with better health care, which in relation to the overall population is a small number of deaths among those that could have been treated. Now speculation dictates how many of those were of the lower income part of these more advanced countries that either a did not know of treatment, or could not afford it, sure neither of us know that for sure, nor does the WHO release that breakdown, but it is just as relevant.

    The only reason I even mentioned being a dad, was not to say that that makes me right and my opinion valid, but was intended to show that as a responsible parent and adult I do my research to make sure that I can make decisions based on whether it is worth the risk or not. In four years that my oldest has been a live he has been sick a total of three times, the first two were near his birth when my wife and I were still for vaccinating, and the symptoms he felt were the same as listed on the side effects of the same vaccines he had been given, since then we did our research and found the information we did, and the only time he has been sick since was a couple months ago, he had respiratory problems through croup, which the doctor's attribute to him having down syndrome. My other three have not been sick with more then a cold, period, and they remain unvaccinated. I myself have been unvaccinated for the past 12 years and have had no major illness that would otherwise incapacitate me. I have personally seen parents close to me lose their loved one's because of unnecessary vaccines.

    You are right not all opinions are equal, and I am not here to state mine is more or less then yours, especially when it is our duty as individuals to do our own research and make our own decisions based on the information we find. I applaud you for your faith in vaccines that you would inhale anthrax to prove your point, but why would I knowingly inhale a deadly substance, when my whole philosophy is based on avoidance and proper care. I would simple walk away from the opportunity to inhale anthrax, and if you did so anyway and survived congratulations, apparently we both made decisions that extended our life beyond anthrax.

    As far as this being debatable, you mention as others who have done research (meaning actual published research) would have your opinion, when I have found many who disagree, and I did not simple google my research, I am not an idiot, I obviously do not just trust anybody's word as law, I have found many people who have published works that disagree with the mainstream belief that vaccines are necessary and should be mandatory. And you speak as one that has held some published works of his own, so if you have I would love to read them, I am open to reading anything... believe it or not I am an open-minded person, I just have not found any scientific papers or research to convince me that the truth is contrary to my current beliefs, but I continue to look, hoping one day that the medical community will actually be able to get rid of sickness and illness as a whole, never am I expecting it though. So to your "this isn't debatable" I contest that statement, and say it is debatable, and should remain debatable, until one side or the other is proven 100%, which is likely to never happen. Until then it is up to us individuals to make our decisions on our own research and choose which side the risk/reward truly leans. My having kids is not a qualifying statement that I am correct, it is a statement of responsibility, it is my responsibility to do my best research to be able to provide them the safest and healthiest life possible, until the point that they can themselves assume that responsibility for themselves.
    Last edited by lordsgamer315; 2012-11-11 at 06:36 AM.

  17. #77
    Brewmaster Desareon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    So, you're linking shit from crazy people you've never heard of. Stellar!



    Is it 1994 again and I missed something?
    -I said I did a quick google search and posted the top 8 links, whats not to get?
    -Alternative media is untrustworthy, but government funded programming is?
    -As for posting papers, printer doesn't exactly work atm.

  18. #78
    Lordsgamer315:

    One of the reasons, despite your lack of vaccination, that you haven't fallen ill is because of the people around you who HAVE vaccinated. You're relying on the herd immunity.

  19. #79
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Being among the top 8 results of a Google search doesn't automatically make you a legitimate source.
    Last edited by Grizzly Willy; 2012-11-11 at 06:35 AM.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    -I said I did a quick google search and posted the top 8 links, whats not to get?
    -Alternative media is untrustworthy, but government funded programming is?
    -As for posting papers, printer doesn't exactly work atm.
    If you don't know what a "paper" refers to in the context of science, you're woefully unqualified to discuss science.

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