0 Rogues used in BL world first kill of Empress

[Lysah]

Yeah, this "bugs me" more. It's all Cata again, where they needed to double the AP buff for melee otherwise they would't be competitve in DS. It's clar and well-known that mages and locks atm are really the kings of dps (F*** HASTE PALADIN TANKS), but if you look at the entire raid, melee are covering only a few spots.

The damage is definitely an issue, as melee can't even dream of keeping up with ranged on a fight like Elegon (even rogues who are arguably the most suited with elusiveness and cloak to avoid having to reset their debuff stacks), but the larger issue in my opinion is just how much worse it is to be melee in ANY fight. Virtually every fight so far is easier if you just leave your melee at home, damage aside.

[MalooTakant]

You really never tryed envenom+Fok before then. It's pretty decent, Or Get 10 combo points envenom then crimson tempest then FoK spam. It's not bad.....

Hell, Even as sub with a decent mastery you can pull good numbers with CT

Who are you trying to convince here bud...

Even if those options are "decent" they don't stack up to any of the other classes.

[Blutelf]

0 Sense found in post about BL world first kill of Empress.

[Samaramon]

My thoughts?
Saw this thread coming when I first saw the pic.

On topic: who cares. Last HC kill they had (in Cata something?) they had no shamans, same thread happened.
Maybe their rogue had the flu -_-

[ZulZul]

First tier cata shamans say hi.

[Illitti]

First tier cata shamans say hi.

Not exactly. Shaman were absolutely useless in T11. Rogues have the best cleave in the whole game, and are thus the top DPS for Garalon and Un'sok. It's just that Shek'zeer doesn't really have cleaving going on, which hurts Rogue DPS too much. I'm fine with classes having specialties, but the way Blizzard does it takes it too far. Buffing Rogue single target DPS while nerfing BF would be good idea imo. Also as has been said, problem with Shek'zeer is melee problem, not a rogue problem specifically.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

0 DK's your thoughts?

Both tanks were blood dks

---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 11:23 AM ----------

Many got shit wrong, here's the BL setup:

7 x Healers: 1 MW monk, 2 Holy paladin, 2 priest (don't know if holy/disc) and 2 resto shamans.

2 x Tanks
Both Blood Tanks as far as I know, MMO champ linked to Absol's 85 pally tank and not his 90 DK tank according to Affinitii.

16 x dps
3 x moonkin
1 x feral-cat
1 x shadowpriest
2 x lock
1 x warrior
1 x ret
2 x elemental
1 x hunter
3 x mage
1 x monk

---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 11:33 AM ----------

rogues aside, I think it's important to note that there were almost no meeles, if there were 2 tanks and 1 ret pally, then the reason is not that it's a personal vendetta towards rogues, it's more like the fight is favoring ranged or that meele might represent a complication to the fight that can't be avoided.

Guilds at this level will always find the way to the prize thru the path of less resistance. If the fight is ranged friendly, the composition will be ranged. If the fight is meele friendly they'll get a meele heavy comp.

I suspect the only reason they brought the ret (and 2 holy paladins) were for the hand of sacrifices, devotion auras and so on, could simply mean that the tactic BL went for required 3 paladins...

Some classes/specs bring alot of utility, rogues don't.

[Kuthe]

Our video has been streamed for the Garalon kill. We used 4 rogues.

Okey, well, just further makes the OP's point useless.
One whole boss didn't use a class, big whoop.

Thanks for clarifying regardless. I never watch streams.
Congrats regardless to your guild.

[ripslyme]

10 combo points envenom CT FoK. Yeah, It's not hard as mut.
That's the best way to max poison dmg in an aoe burst.

so with the level of haste right now you take your ramp up time lets say 20sec and bam ready to explode

oh adds are already dead damn

[det]

Min / Maxing has always been part of the World first race and that includes stacking some classes and benching others. Doesn't mean those classes are generally OP or useless

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Min / Maxing has always been part of the World first race and that includes stacking some classes and benching others. Doesn't mean those classes are generally OP or useless

From the outside it looks that way, what many below the "world first tier" guilds don't understand is that they have to optimize everything, lack of gear, limited time and having to push for hours on end "forces" them to look in places for increased effectiveness to do encounters. Ragnaros got 3 healed because of dps requirements, some guilds solotanked it with a blood DK, just because one class wasn't taken for a fight doesn't mean it's bad... it means other classes/specs are better suited or tactics required an extra druid or paladin for cooldowns, if you're butthurt because a top guild benched rogues for one fight to get world first then you're so far away from understanding their mindset that it's scary.

[Sarac]

We all know that Rogues are superawesome and you are top dps at every single target fight, cleaving fights & aoe fights.

Now move on, we want to discuss why Rogue's have been benched.

P.S: While Blood Legion did not use 1Rogue, it does not mean that Rogues are bad now.

Rogues are balanced, do you really have to be number 1 on logs to make rogues stop bitching? Theres shitloads of speccs that are off a lot worse. You can meter whore again aiming end of MoP just like every other patch end Xpack...atleast you are certain to compete best dmg at some point

[Ixuzcc]

Obviously, since Blood Legion didn't use Rogues and didn't feature a lot of Death Knights and Warriors, the classes suck and you MUST reroll.

There is just no alternative.

[Sendai]

Rogues are balanced, do you really have to be number 1 on logs to make rogues stop bitching? Theres shitloads of speccs that are off a lot worse. You can meter whore again aiming end of MoP just like every other patch end Xpack...atleast you are certain to compete best dmg at some point

I'm certainly tired of reading this "rogues are balanced". Specs? Rogue is a class, not a spec. You can't compare plain rogues to enhancement shamans or retribution paladins, as they have other roles, but rogues only got melee DPS.

This is the chronology of rogues in MOP :

-It's alpha yet, talent trees may change.
-It's the beginning of beta, many changes will happen.
-It's only been two weeks, all these things will be fixed.
-There's still time to change talents and things.
-They are tweaking numbers, but they can still change talents.
-Rogues are fine, one patch note in four builds means they are balanced, only few tweaks needed.
-Things will be fixed during the expansion, now just some changes before release.
-Rogues are balanced, you FOTMers don't know how to play. Stop whining!
-Rogues are fine, still overpowered, they are still owning arena and raids.
-Well, rogues are the least used class in all arena brackets together with monks, but they are still balanced, it's other classes that are much better. They are still amazing in PVE!
-The class is the least used class in the entire game, with a tiny margin over monks, but it's because people don't like to play backstabbing cowards that vanish when fight is looking bad.
-No rogues used in some of the heroic kills? Well, they are balanced, it's not the end of the world, you just have to learn to play.


And so on.

[Sarac]

I'm certainly tired of reading this "rogues are balanced". Specs? Rogue is a class, not a spec. You can't compare plain rogues to enhancement shamans or retribution paladins, as they have other roles, but rogues only got melee DPS.

This is the chronology of rogues in MOP :

-It's alpha yet, talent trees may change.
-It's the beginning of beta, many changes will happen.
-It's only been two weeks, all these things will be fixed.
-There's still time to change talents and things.
-They are tweaking numbers, but they can still change talents.
-Rogues are fine, one patch note in four builds means they are balanced, only few tweaks needed.
-Things will be fixed during the expansion, now just some changes before release.
-Rogues are balanced, you FOTMers don't know how to play. Stop whining!
-Rogues are fine, still overpowered, they are still owning arena and raids.
-Well, rogues are the least used class in all arena brackets together with monks, but they are still balanced, it's other classes that are much better. They are still amazing in PVE!
-The class is the least used class in the entire game, with a tiny margin over monks, but it's because people don't like to play backstabbing cowards that vanish when fight is looking bad.
-No rogues used in some of the heroic kills? Well, they are balanced, it's not the end of the world, you just have to learn to play.


And so on.

And theres almost always only 1 viable specc for PvE so why bother, it doesn't make a single difference to what I said. They are doing decent dmg just like some others are only doing decent damage. The only difference is rogues are number 1 dps in some patches compared to those others dps so when you are not top dps you start crying.

Unless you are bottom dps as a pure dps class I see no reason for whining. Being in the middle isn't a bad thing...and if that makes top guilds stop taking rogues for 1-2 weeks because of lack of gear to fill that few dps loss than so be it.

[Socialhealer]

Because rogues bring absolutely nothing to the table in a 25man raid.

huge personal survival? rogues should take much less damage than just about every other class with abilities like vanish feint and cloak.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

huge personal survival? rogues should take much less damage than just about every other class with abilities like vanish feint and cloak.

Like that matters...
All that can kill you is avoidable.
Raid damage will be healed through, if healers can't handle that then healers suck.
One of the reasons resto druids aren't "great" is because all they bring is throughput, they don't have an effective raid CD. Yes tranquility is great AFTER you take damage or in high frequency aoe pulses like last phase Elegon, but in many cases a power word: Barrier or Devotion Aura is prefferable. Same with rogues, other classes/specs bring MORE to the table.

[Suggs]

Your thoughts?

No.....how about us listening to your thoughts on the thread you created.
Pathetic waste of time threads where the op has fuck all to contribute to it whatsoever.
Why not state why you think they didnt take a rogue in your thread opener? or at least anything but 'your thoughts' or 'discuss' like so many other mongs that do the same.
Not even going to mention the topic of the thread either....everytime one class is not in one of these world first kills these threads appear.
Laughable beyond reason.

Edit - lol you havnt even replied in your piss poor thread you created....what was the point of this again?

[Faroth]

1 warrior
1 death knight
4 paladins

Totally unfair, imbalanced, wtf, this is proof Blizzard doesn't balance plate classes....

4 shaman
1 hunter
Totally unfair, imbalanced, wtf, this is proof Blizzard doesn't balance mail classes.....

4 druids
2 monks
0 rogues
Totally unfair, imbalanced, wtf, this is proof Blizzard doesn't balance leather classes....

3 mages
3 priests
2 warlocks

Apparently cloth are somewhat balanced.


Seriously, just because rogues aren't #1 on DPS with or without trying, there's no need to make a personal crusade claiming they're broken. They've been the dominant DPS class for 8 years. I'd imagine a lot of rogue players switched over the nerf (heck, over any nerf) even while some rogues said they needed adjustment down.

I'm not a world first raider, not anywhere remotely close, but we didn't have a mage or warlock in our raid in Cataclysm. Had nothing to do with the class, just that we didn't have anyone that wanted to bring one. We had multiple druids, multiple hunters. We would have possibly benefited from more class diversity, but....you bring the player, not the class right?

What if those monks were previously rogues and the players in BL wanted to try the new class and liked it?

[klaps_05]

ive personally never seen rogues being THIS garbage in an expansion in both pvp and pve - completely useless class. every rogue that I have played with is now either a mage or a warrior, rogue expansions have come to an end.