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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    Honor is fighting your own battles, without hundreds of thousands of the sons and daughters of other parents dieing for your cause.
    Fun fact: most of Israeli´s politicians served in the army, for example Sharon was a commander of one of the Sayeret commando teams, so in this case they did fight in their time.
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    This law abiding person doesn't consider taking your guns away to be a punishment.
    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    someone who disagrees with me is simply wrong.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    Honor is fighting your own battles, without hundreds of thousands of the sons and daughters of other parents dieing for your cause.
    Maybe you don't realize this, but if me and my brothers and sisters throughout Israel's history (metaphorical ones, yes?) hadn't served in the IDF, we would have been wiped out in 48'. So in fact, this is very much my own battle, as those around me want me dead and gone (not all, but enough to make it necessary to maintain a formidable military).

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    That may be true, but I maintain that it is better to die with honor than to live as a coward.
    while their tactics disgust me, and i find them reprehensible, i can understand them. ive always been a small guy, and bullies always seemed to try targeting me. they were disappointed when i wouldn't stand toe-to-toe with them and duke it out "like a man", but instead took every opportunity given to hurt them as badly as i possibly could. fighting clean is a luxury of the strong, and if the strong wish to push the weak around then the weak will use whatever tactic will help their cause.

    the thing with the situation the OP is alluding to... both sides feel like they have been wronged (imo both are right on this). palestinians feel that israel is bullying them. israel feels that the palestinians are part of a pack of big boys that want to clean the floor with them. and once again, both are somewhat correct (imo)

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Maybe you don't realize this, but if me and my brothers and sisters throughout Israel's history (metaphorical ones, yes?) hadn't served in the IDF, we would have been wiped out in 48'. So in fact, this is very much my own battle, as those around me want me dead and gone (not all, but enough to make it necessary to maintain a formidable military).
    It was only your battle because the leaders of the world forced it upon you. Everyone could have agreed to let you keep the land you legally owned, and let the Arabs keep the land they legally owned.

    Everyone could have been happy. But no, they would not be satisfied because of greed, pride, and religion.

    Foolishness at it's finest...
    Last edited by Purlina; 2012-11-13 at 09:44 PM.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    It was only your battle because the leaders of the world forced it upon you. Everyone could have agreed to let you keep the land you legally owned, and let the Arabs keep the land they legally owned.

    Everyone could have been happy. But no, they would not be satisfied because of greed, pride, and religion.
    Well, if immigration of Jews would have been halted, I would probably have never been born, as my grandfather is a holocaust survivor.
    But other than that, you're probably right.

    Hell, I still remember that when I was little, my parents hoped that by the time I turn 18, the IDF would no longer be needed. Then came the Second Intifada, and the rest is history.

  6. #306
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Perhaps you should read up on the Oslo Accords, it is why the IDF withdrew from Gaza and parts of the West Bank,
    But they didn't, that's the problem. They maintained a presence and continue to cause chaos on innocent people.

    It sure as fuck beats your inconsiderate jackassedness that you displayed with your little comment on those who died.
    Again, who's at fault? The Israeli government and military. Blame yourself for electing murderers?

    And for the record, I don't want you to die (and hence why I didn't say it, although think what you like). I really don't.
    I don't want you to die and I don't want Israel to disappear either! The difference is I think the Israeli government doesn't give a shit about the Palestinians so they perpetrate these inhumane crimes and thus they have every right to fight back in whatever manner they choose. Once again, if Israel had never invaded Palestine and occupied it, we might have some bloody peace. Hell, if they went back to the borders of 67 we'd have a chance.

    And another thing - where in this entire thread have I expressed support for a form of genocide? I dare you to find a single comment that so much as implies that (without being completely twisted).
    The Israeli government steals arable land and eliminates cultural contact between Palestinian settlements. The plan is to starve them out and break their wills by removing their culture. That's both ethnic and cultural genocide.
    Last edited by Zhangfei; 2012-11-13 at 09:54 PM.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  7. #307
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    But they didn't, that's the problem. They maintained a presence and continue to cause chaos on innocent people.
    Really... Gaza and all of the West Bank has an IDF presence?... really? I'm pretty damn certain that Hamas would tell you there are no IDF anywhere in Gaza. However, I'm also certain, that if y'all keep up the rocket fire that there WILL be an IDF presence there...

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  8. #308
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    They are using Phosphor weapons? I thought every civilized country had stopped using that shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavett View Post
    None fires phosphorus in order to inflict damage, it's used to create a smoke screen for concealed movement and with all artillery shells a missfire happens once in a while.
    They've used it on a densely populated area as recent as 2009.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...orus-civilians
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...hosphorus-gaza

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Really... Gaza and all of the West Bank has an IDF presence?... really? I'm pretty damn certain that Hamas would tell you there are no IDF anywhere in Gaza. However, I'm also certain, that if y'all keep up the rocket fire that there WILL be an IDF presence there...
    Their may not be any soldiers within the border but that does not mean that Hamas controls Gaza. Israel controls Gaza as proven by the fact that the amount of goods coming in and out is limited. The group that controls the border controls the land itself.

    The only difference between now and 10 years ago is the fact that Palestinians aren't losing any of their homes because of Israeli settlers.

    How long do you think Israel can keep on doing things like this? If it wasn't for the US and it's aid (both political and in terms of money) Israel would probably have been destroyed (if their actions didn't change) by now because the current situation is nothing more then a war of attrition.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    But they didn't, that's the problem. They maintained a presence and continue to cause chaos on innocent people.

    Again, who's at fault? The Israeli government and military. Blame yourself for electing murderers?

    I don't want you to die and I don't want Israel to disappear either! The difference is I think the Israeli government doesn't give a shit about the Palestinians so they perpetrate these inhumane crimes and thus they have every right to fight back in whatever manner they choose. Once again, if Israel had never invaded Palestine and occupied it, we might have some bloody peace. Hell, if they went back to the borders of 67 we'd have a chance.

    The Israeli government steals arable land and eliminates cultural contact between Palestinian settlements. The plan is to starve them out and break their wills by removing their culture. That's both ethnic and cultural genocide.
    The plan? Who's plan? Having served 3+ years in the IDF, I've never heard of any such plan.

    Invaded Palestine? There was no invasion because, A) Israel was founded after receiving a majority in the UN vote, and B) Because the British Mandate left in order for Israel to be elected, which means no country was invaded, as there was no country here before.

    However, I'm getting fairly tired of going round and round with this, so I'll just leave it at that.

  11. #311
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    The plan? Who's plan? Having served 3+ years in the IDF, I've never heard of any such plan.
    That's what is happening, whether you like ir or not.

    Invaded Palestine? There was no invasion because, A) Israel was founded after receiving a majority in the UN vote, and B) Because the British Mandate left in order for Israel to be elected, which means no country was invaded, as there was no country here before.
    Palestine was also created out of that mandate; they rejected it for damn good reasons. You invaded them when they decided it was a tad unfair that despite owning 93% of the country, Israel was getting a ridiculously disproportionate amount of land. Straight after the civil war happened because Israel wanted even more land, despite being the invaders.

    However, I'm getting fairly tired of going round and round with this, so I'll just leave it at that.
    Yes, it's ever so bothersome when your country kills tens of thousands of innocents and educated people find that loathesome.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    That's what is happening, whether you like ir or not.



    Palestine was also created out of that mandate; they rejected it for damn good reasons. You invaded them when they decided it was a tad unfair that despite owning 93% of the country, Israel was getting a ridiculously disproportionate amount of land. Straight after the civil war happened because Israel wanted even more land, despite being the invaders.



    Yes, it's ever so bothersome when your country kills tens of thousands of innocents and educated people find that loathesome.
    I love that you're calling yourself educated. I absolutely love it.

  13. #313
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    I give no fucks about the Geneva convention right now. I'm talking about honor. It is dishonorable to use civilians as shields, and good men would prefer to die in battle than to hide like a coward.

    Geneva Convention or not, only dogs do such things.
    Yeah... and combine subhumanizing with the fairly rational observation that in a disproportionate modern conflict like this one that it's difficult to tell who's the enemy and you have "surgical strikes" destroying police headquarters and greenhouses, and schoolgirls riddled with IDF bullets for being in range of a checkpoint.

    Tell you what, you convince the Palestinian militants to wear uniforms so the IDF can sweep through and arrest them all, and I'll nominate you for the Nobel Peace Prize. Because if it were that simple, it would be easy, and maybe Israel wouldn't need a domestic occupation force.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    All things considered, Israel has shown a lot of restraint in this whole ordeal with the Palestinians. I mean, this is basically the same situation as Saddam and the Kurds. And we all know how Saddam handled that...

    Kudos to Israel for not just exterminating them.
    what the hell did I just read. Seriously.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 11:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    So surprising......, it seems there will never be peace, not to mention Isreal is threatened more than ever with the regimes around it collapsing and being replaced by deeply religious people.
    Quite the opposite. Exactly the opposite.

  15. #315
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post
    Tell you what, you convince the Palestinian militants to wear uniforms so the IDF can sweep through and arrest them all, and I'll nominate you for the Nobel Peace Prize. Because if it were that simple, it would be easy, and maybe Israel wouldn't need a domestic occupation force.
    I don't think I could convince them. And that's not my point. I'm just sick of people glorifying them when they act like cowardly animals.

  16. #316
    I think that after so much time it's really ridicoulus that the world and especially USA, Eu and Russia haven't stepped up and put an end to this mess that Israel and Palestina are putting up for so long, give them an ultimatum, or you cut this crap by the end of the year or we send troops on the border to keep you two kids separated.
    All this mess is still here cause the world don't have the balls to deal seriously with those two .

  17. #317
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    I think that after so much time it's really ridicoulus that the world and especially USA, Eu and Russia haven't stepped up and put an end to this mess that Israel and Palestina are putting up for so long, give them an ultimatum, or you cut this crap by the end of the year or we send troops on the border to keep you two kids separated.
    All this mess is still here cause the world don't have the balls to deal seriously with those two .
    I'm not sure we could enforce that. America *might* be able to forcefully occupy Israel. And that's only if we put the full weight of our military into the effort, and were willing to sustain tens of thousands of casualties.

    As for the notion that the EU or Russia could take military action against Israel without being slaughtered upon their arrival, I cannot take it seriously.

    Israel is not to be trifled with.

  18. #318
    I'm not saying invading israel, i'm saying that they create a large border like a neutral zone patrolled by neutral military forces to keep them separate much like it's currently going on in libano.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    I think that after so much time it's really ridicoulus that the world and especially USA, Eu and Russia haven't stepped up and put an end to this mess that Israel and Palestina are putting up for so long, give them an ultimatum, or you cut this crap by the end of the year or we send troops on the border to keep you two kids separated.
    All this mess is still here cause the world don't have the balls to deal seriously with those two .
    This is because you certainly do not understand the world. You don't understand israel is still standing because of the power of money lies corruption and murder, undermining countries soverenty and gaging its people wisdom and moral and will to live prosper in peace. This is the doing of the scum of the earth and their puppets.
    This is evil genius at its finest.

    Sleep well kiddo, don't be too curious it would wreck you, wouldn't it?

  20. #320
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    in case you wondered what the effects of the phosphorous bombs israel used in gaza are like do a simple google

    https://www.google.com/search?q=phos...O8rltQbC4YCwCA

    all of the images are just too disturbing to link here. if you really feel thats a justified response then you have lost your humanity.

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