Gaza rocket fire resumes

[rnbwtrout]

Probably because it's not Israeli territory at all, it's Palestinian territory which was stolen from them.

Israel was created after WW2 to give the Jews a state, which they'd wanted for a long time, (and to get them out of Europe, but nobody likes to bring that up). This state was carved out of the British mandate of Palestine. Its capital was to be Tel Aviv. Jerusalem was to be a neutral city administered by the United Nations just like Trieste and Danzig.

and how did Britain get this 'mandate'? by right of might. you so easily accept this british 'mandate' and throw away the jewish 'mandate'. the jews have a far better claim to the land than britain and won it the same way.

Oh, fun fact, vast majority of Palestinians are in favour of a two state solution and don't want Israel destroyed, they simply want a return to the borders which were agreed on after WW2 when Israel was created. Of course Israel won't do that because they have a hold on all the best land now, and want to keep it.

then let the jews have it and get out of there. they won it by right of might and have ancestral claims to it. i can see a case if the palestinians were a whole different culture and people from all of their neighbors so that establishing their own state was the only way to keep their culture alive. but that's not the case at all. get out of there and go live in peace in another arab country where they speak the same language, have the same customs and worship the same way. there's 4 of them right next to the palestinians: lebannon, syria, jordan and egypt.

[Darsey]

How do you steal a country? Do you put it in your bag when no one is watching?

[Mnevis]

How do you steal a country? Do you put it in your bag when no one is watching?

let the jews have it and get out of there. they won it by right of might

Different rules for petty theft and nationalism.

[Bakis]

Terror met with terror. Same old, same old.

[Ave07]

here's a thought: why do palestinians want to live in hostile israeli territory? they speak arabic, live an arabic culture and are muslims.

newsflash, there are 4 arabic countries right next to you that you can easily live in who speak the same language, live the same way and worship the same god. YET...you insist on living with the jews. my mind is blown.

its like if america turned to shitsville, the logical place most americans would be headed to is canada: same language, close enough culture and religion. in the palestinians case, instead of heading to canada, they head to mexico and wonder why there's so much tension.

Wow you clearly have no idea how the world works.

[rnbwtrout]

Wow you clearly have no idea how the world works.

i admit its an idealistic idea. but tell me, whats to stop a smart palestinian from just moving to one of the neighboring arab countries and say i've had enough. im going to start a new life in peace? i'll tell you what's stopping them: pride and religious fervor, 2 of the most stupid and irrational emotions to humans.

the so-called arab league could and still can solve this whole problem by taking in and resettling the palestinians in arab lands. imo, they're worse than the jews. they went to war with israel on behalf of the palestinians, but when they lost the war, they just completely turned their backs on the people they were supposedly championing.

it's like if somehow the UK were to be overran by a foreign power and the U.S., Canada and Australia were to say: "FU british citizens; we aint gonna help you a damn bit or resettle any of you into our countries." that would never freaken happen. but that's exactly what the so-called "arab league" is doing to the palestinian people.

[N-7]

here's a thought: why do palestinians want to live in hostile israeli territory? they speak arabic, live an arabic culture and are muslims.

newsflash, there are 4 arabic countries right next to you that you can easily live in who speak the same language, live the same way and worship the same god. YET...you insist on living with the jews. my mind is blown.

its like if america turned to shitsville, the logical place most americans would be headed to is canada: same language, close enough culture and religion. in the palestinians case, instead of heading to canada, they head to mexico and wonder why there's so much tension.

USA, UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc... share the same language, very similar cultures, and are mostly christians/atheists, why don't they move to one country instead of being all over the place?

Also, if you were living in a neighbourhood and then someone came to live in nearby, are you the one who is insisting on living near them? It doesn't matter if you have relatives in another neighbourhood does it?

---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 06:11 AM ----------

i admit its an idealistic idea. but tell me, whats to stop a smart palestinian from just moving to one of the neighboring arab countries and say i've had enough. im going to start a new life in peace? i'll tell you what's stopping them: pride and religious fervor, 2 of the most stupid and irrational emotions to humans.

the so-called arab league could and still can solve this whole problem by taking in and resettling the palestinians in arab lands. imo, they're worse than the jews. they went to war with israel on behalf of the palestinians, but when they lost the war, they just completely turned their backs on the people they were supposedly championing.

it's like if somehow the UK were to be overran by a foreign power and the U.S., Canada and Australia were to say: "FU british citizens; we aint gonna help you a damn bit or resettle any of you into our countries." that would never freaken happen. but that's exactly what the so-called "arab league" is doing to the palestinian people.

It is not an idealistic idea it is a stupid one. An idealistic idea would be wanting both to live in peace...

[Mnevis]

it's like if somehow the UK were to be overran by a foreign power and the U.S., Canada and Australia were to say: "FU british citizens; we aint gonna help you a damn bit or resettle any of you into our countries." that would never freaken happen. but that's exactly what the so-called "arab league" is doing to the palestinian people.

You think we'd advise the UK to roll over? lol.

here's a thought: why do palestinians want to live in hostile israeli territory?

\

Could cut the irony here with a knife.

[N-7]

it's like if somehow the UK were to be overran by a foreign power and the U.S., Canada and Australia were to say: "FU british citizens; we aint gonna help you a damn bit or resettle any of you into our countries." that would never freaken happen. but that's exactly what the so-called "arab league" is doing to the palestinian people.

If the US, Canadian, and Australian military might was as weak as that of Arab nations then yeah they would have said "FU British citizens" and the British citizens would be within their right to defend their country with any means possible. If these countries retain their powers in this ridiculous comparison, then they would simply attempt to drive off that invading force and probably succeed which is what the Arab League tried to do drive an invading force out but unfortunately they failed.

Actually, while Europeans weren't "best buddies" when a Muslim country took over Spain, they all shared the same religion and similar cultures. You know what they did to help those Spanish people? nothing at all.

[Mercadi]

i admit its an idealistic idea. but tell me, whats to stop a smart palestinian from just moving to one of the neighboring arab countries and say i've had enough. im going to start a new life in peace? i'll tell you what's stopping them: pride and religious fervor, 2 of the most stupid and irrational emotions to humans.

The arabs in Palestinian territories consider Israel their own. In schools children are being taught that the land is rightfully theirs, and that the jews have no rights to exist. This fuels the conflict, and nothing can be done besides containing the threat within Gaza/refugee camps that are already grossly overpopulated (due to culturally high birthrate) and on the verge of sanitary disaster. All that the arabs can do is to encourage sending their young to die in mindless skirmishes, and pleading to the U.N..
If Israel is forced to cancel the blockade, a flood of weaponry will dash down into Gaza, and a flood of young Muslim gentlemen seeking vengeance will pour outwards, surely not contributing the the peaceful resolution of the conflict.

Something to watch about the arab education in Palestine:

[N-7]

Something to watch about the arab education in Palestine:

All I see is some random YouTube video with some pictures of children carrying guns probably taken out of context and no sources or references to back up their claims. Who is the one using propaganda?

[Mercadi]

All I see is some random YouTube video with some pictures of children carrying guns probably taken out of context and no sources or references to back up their claims. Who is the one using propaganda?

Well, if you have something to show that the arab education in Palestine is not inducing hate of jews I will be interested in seeing that.
If you so seek a news channel tag or a specific format (if that would make you trust whatever piece of information you're given), you can find many more videos on the same topic, coming from different parties.

[N-7]

Well, if you have something to show that the arab education in Palestine is not inducing hate of jews I will be interested in seeing that.
If you so seek a news channel tag or a specific format (if that would make you trust whatever piece of information you're given), you can find many more videos on the same topic, coming from different parties.

The burden of proof is on the person making a contentious claim. I did not claim to know anything about Arab education in Palestine, you did therefore you are the one who needs to provide a reputable source for your information instead of a propaganda video.

[Mercadi]

The burden of proof is on the person making a contentious claim. I did not claim to know anything about Arab education in Palestine, you did therefore you are the one who needs to provide a reputable source for your information instead of a propaganda video.

Alright, I agree. I did get my eyes on Jerusalem Post article about a research conducted by IMPACT-SE (The Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education) on contents of Palestinian arab textbooks.
I understand that both JPost and IMPACT-SE can hardly be considered non-interested parties, but in this conflict there is possibly no unbiased media that has some information about what is going on between Israel and the arabs.

[Milchshake]

"Obama is a 'cooshi'", at the 1:30 mark... seriously what are they teaching over there.



We can cherry pick videos all day.

[N-7]

Alright, I agree. I did get my eyes on Jerusalem Post article about a research conducted by IMPACT-SE (The Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education) on contents of Palestinian arab textbooks.
I understand that both JPost and IMPACT-SE can hardly be considered non-interested parties, but in this conflict there is possibly no unbiased media that has some information about what is going on between Israel and the arabs.

So you agree that in a such conflict it is really hard (if not impossible) to obtain an accurate representation of the situation unless you've experienced it first hand? I probably could come up with a source claiming that Israel education system promotes intolerance towards Arabs.

And guess what I found this Pro-Palestine source: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...854285479.html , Pro-Israel source: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/a-goo...arabs-1.459832 , Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_..._against_Arabs

All basically saying that the Israeli education system promotes hate against Arabs even Arabs living in Israel. Does that make it true? I don't really know but it certainly seems convincing if even pro-Israel websites are claiming that it is happening.

[Mercadi]

So you agree that in a such conflict it is really hard (if not impossible) to obtain an accurate representation of the situation unless you've experienced it first hand? I probably could come up with a source claiming that Israel education system promotes intolerance towards Arabs.

And guess what I found this Pro-Palestine source: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...854285479.html , Pro-Israel source: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/a-goo...arabs-1.459832 , Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_..._against_Arabs

All basically saying that the Israeli education system promotes hate against Arabs even Arabs living in Israel. Does that make it true? I don't really know but it certainly seems convincing if even pro-Israel websites are claiming that it is happening.

I don't remember being taught to hate Arabs at school in Israel. Neither was I required to read racist literature.
There were ceremonies where fallen soldiers were remembered, and serving to defend Israel was highly encouraged, but that's about it.
Among kids, though, there were many who lost relatives in suicide bombings or while serving in the Army. Their feelings towards Arabs were generally negative (but neither encouraged or punished by teachers).

[N-7]

I don't remember being taught to hate Arabs at school in Israel. Neither was I required to read racist literature.
There were ceremonies where fallen soldiers were remembered, and serving to defend Israel was highly encouraged, but that's about it.
Among kids, though, there were many who lost relatives in suicide bombings or while serving in the Army. Their feelings towards Arabs were generally negative (but neither encouraged or punished by teachers).

You not being required to do so doesn't necessarily mean that someone else didn't have to. I have provided you with several sources some are pro-Israel and some aren't. I am not saying that it is true I am just saying that it is compelling more than a one-side story or a random YouTube video.

[Mercadi]

You not being required to do so doesn't necessarily mean that someone else didn't have to. I have provided you with several sources some are pro-Israel and some aren't. I am not saying that it is true I am just saying that it is compelling more than a one-side story or a random YouTube video.

I get your point, posting that video was indeed a foolish thing to do. Although, given how much each point of view on the conflict polarizes media, any news article could be reduced to propaganda (would only take a bit more effort to do that with an article coming from a "respectable" media source).

[rnbwtrout]

The arabs in Palestinian territories consider Israel their own. In schools children are being taught that the land is rightfully theirs, and that the jews have no rights to exist. This fuels the conflict, and nothing can be done besides containing the threat within Gaza/refugee camps that are already grossly overpopulated (due to culturally high birthrate) and on the verge of sanitary disaster. All that the arabs can do is to encourage sending their young to die in mindless skirmishes, and pleading to the U.N..
If Israel is forced to cancel the blockade, a flood of weaponry will dash down into Gaza, and a flood of young Muslim gentlemen seeking vengeance will pour outwards, surely not contributing the the peaceful resolution of the conflict.

Something to watch about the arab education in Palestine:

i've gotten more involved in this conversation than i care, but there were many ways for the jews to avoid this exact situation directly after the end of their war. the jews held all the cards at that point and played them poorly; ridiculously poorly.
yes, i still believe the arab league has a responsibility and an answer to this conflict; but ultimately, the jews could have taken care of, cleaned house, tied up all the loose ends early on and didn't.