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  1. #21
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    All things considered, Israel has shown a lot of restraint in this whole ordeal with the Palestinians. I mean, this is basically the same situation as Saddam and the Kurds. And we all know how Saddam handled that...

    Kudos to Israel for not just exterminating them.
    And whatever the opposite of kudos are to Israel for inciting this sort of thing in the first place.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubalus View Post
    nothing 'legal' about said borders, the UN and most countries want israel to respect the pre-1967 borders, which Israel refuses and can do so since the US will shoot down anything that tries to enforce this/make it happen. Can understand why israel keeps control over the disputed area's but they are very much in dispute,
    If the US wasn't blindly doing everything Israel wants and blocking everything that criticizes Israel the borders would have been back to 'normal' decades ago.
    How dare those Israelis refuse to give back the Golan Heights so that Syria can shell their towns for THE 3RD TIME!

  3. #23
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Awesome, we're going to have this thread again!
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    How dare those Israelis refuse to give back the Golan Heights so that Syria can shell their towns for THE 3RD TIME!
    Yes, Syria is in position of shelling anything.

    I only wish native americans weren't so assimilated to the local population and were given modern weaponry so we could see how the hypocricy of US breaks down.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Yes, Syria is in position of shelling anything.

    I only wish native americans weren't so assimilated to the local population and were given modern weaponry so we could see how the hypocricy of US breaks down.
    I think not. American minority groups dealt with the massive injustice in our social, political, and economic systems by trying to effect change through non-violence. Spoiler alert! It worked! In the time that the Palestinians and Israelis have been fighting, the United States has gone from a place with codified legal racism to having a black man as president. But, I'm sure another 20 years of suicide bombs, home-made rockets that don't kill anybody, and European chiding will change things for the Palestinians.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    I think not. American minority groups dealt with the massive injustice in our social, political, and economic systems by trying to effect change through non-violence. Spoiler alert! It worked! In the time that the Palestinians and Israelis have been fighting, the United States has gone from a place with codified legal racism to having a black man as president. But, I'm sure another 20 years of suicide bombs, home-made rockets that don't kill anybody, and European chiding will change things for the Palestinians.
    Yeah, Europe should make direct move against the ruling body of Israel.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    I think not. American minority groups dealt with the massive injustice in our social, political, and economic systems by trying to effect change through non-violence.
    Nah, most of the injustices done to the Native Americans where dealt with by simply dying / being moved to reservations...

    But hey, we let them own casinos!

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Yeah, Europe should make direct move against the ruling body of Israel.
    I'm sure that will work out well.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    I'm sure that will work out well.
    Of course it won't because then Israel would launch their illegal nukes as per their Samson Option, what would happen anyhow if any arab country would get upper hand of Israel. "If we go, everyone goes" - motto of Israel ruling party. Good thing those nukes are in stable hands.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Of course it won't because then Israel would launch their illegal nukes as per their Samson Option, what would happen anyhow if any arab country would get upper hand of Israel. "If we go, everyone goes" - motto of Israel ruling party. Good thing those nukes are in stable hands.
    And now we're into silly territory were there are "illegal" nuclear weapons. Of course, the Pakistani and Indian nuclear programs are fine for some reason.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    And now we're into silly territory were there are "illegal" nuclear weapons. Of course, the Pakistani and Indian nuclear programs are fine for some reason.
    They atleast let investigators in, while Israel still doesn't let the IAEA even to their country for proper check-up.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    And whatever the opposite of kudos are to Israel for inciting this sort of thing in the first place.
    Israel incited? Funny, because I recall Israel being attacked even before it was ever founded, then attacked by 5 more countries on the day after its founding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Of course it won't because then Israel would launch their illegal nukes as per their Samson Option, what would happen anyhow if any arab country would get upper hand of Israel. "If we go, everyone goes" - motto of Israel ruling party. Good thing those nukes are in stable hands.
    I'd love to see your sources for this so called motto.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Israel incited? Funny, because I recall Israel being attacked even before it was ever founded
    Good sign of the actual residents of the region not wanting a nation forced up their throats eh? It's almoust like saying no nation would put up a fight when something else gets erected into middle of their areas.

    I'd love to see your sources for this so called motto.
    Well duh, it's fairly obviously something I made up based on the Samson Option which says the same thing but is not "official".
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post

    I'd love to see your sources for this so called motto.
    Doesn't every country with nukes have a MAD policy? That's the entire point of having nukes after all...

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    Doesn't every country with nukes have a MAD policy? That's the entire point of having nukes after all...
    Samson Option isn't MAD per say, because it is concerning two parties in nuclear engagement. Samson Option is all about "If we go under, we take EVERYONE with us"
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  16. #36
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Israel incited? Funny, because I recall Israel being attacked even before it was ever founded, then attacked by 5 more countries on the day after its founding.
    Have you really looked into what's going on over there? The giant walls, military checkpoints, the taking of land against Israel's own laws, with the police and military looking the other direction, the shooting of non-violent protesters? Yeah, Palestine has some crappy people doing crappy things, but at least their crappy things aren't institutionalized. The legitimate forces of Israel are enforcing apartheid and enabling land theft. That is absolutely incitation.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
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  17. #37
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Have you really looked into what's going on over there? The giant walls, military checkpoints, the taking of land against Israel's own laws, with the police and military looking the other direction, the shooting of non-violent protesters? Yeah, Palestine has some crappy people doing crappy things, but at least their crappy things aren't institutionalized. The legitimate forces of Israel are enforcing apartheid and enabling land theft. That is absolutely incitation.
    She lives there as far as I know.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 05:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    All things considered, Israel has shown a lot of restraint in this whole ordeal with the Palestinians. I mean, this is basically the same situation as Saddam and the Kurds. And we all know how Saddam handled that...

    Kudos to Israel for not just exterminating them.
    Yeah restrain *cough* 2009 *cough*...

  18. #38
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    She lives there as far as I know.
    Well that's fair enough, but you can't just look at how Israel has been attacked and ignore the crappy things they're doing. Israel isn't a blameless innocent in this scenario. Nor are the Palestinians.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  19. #39
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Well that's fair enough, but you can't just look at how Israel has been attacked and ignore the crappy things they're doing. Israel isn't a blameless innocent in this scenario. Nor are the Palestinians.
    I agree both sides have done horrible things and the only disadvantaged bunch are the civilians and innocents.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    Doesn't every country with nukes have a MAD policy? That's the entire point of having nukes after all...
    As far as I know, nukes are supposed to be a deterrent. A country is much less likely to be attacked (as in open warfare, not guerrilla tactics like those used against Israel) when the attacker knows they might get nuked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Well that's fair enough, but you can't just look at how Israel has been attacked and ignore the crappy things they're doing. Israel isn't a blameless innocent in this scenario. Nor are the Palestinians.
    I do indeed live here (and am male). I never claimed that Israel is blameless - it's definitely not.
    But I was referring to the specific remark about Israel being the inciter.

    And while I know most people won't believe me (because after all, when has anyone changed their opinion about something like this?), but the IDF most certainly does not enforce any kind of apartheid. We don't even control Gaza, and most parts of the West Bank are controlled by the PNA's agencies (see areas A, B and C).
    It really is a shame how terrible Israel's PR office, and how phenomenal the anti-Israel PR is.
    I mean, by looking at the media you'd think every single IDF soldier is a bloodthirsty maniac who only wants to eat Palestinian children (hint, we're not).

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