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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    The land that was owned by Palestine. The 93% of it. None of this is disputed, by Palestinians, the UN or Israelis. You want me to actually get all the land deeds? Even the ones destroyed illegally by Israelis?

    http://www.palestineremembered.com/A.../Story573.html

    Are you kidding me? Showing a UN map which holds results from the Palestinian British mandate period?
    And you claim to know your history? The part you are refering to and claiming your arguments on is merely a drop of the full bucket.
    You assume this landnicking game started out in 1946 or somewhere close then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
    This goes back beyond Christ yet the majority of the pro-palstinians here just pick the date that suits the best for them and just wipe out facts that are quite important in the whole to have a proper opinion.

    First i recommend you to look up what a 'palastine' was in the time of the British Mandate, ill give you a hint : there were also Palestinian Jews, which were reffered to as Palestine, but in fact were just Jew.
    Because your definition of a Palestine is clearly not a Jew you're already wrong with your very first assumption.


    This is so much more complicated then most of the people, who think to have a founded opinion on this, can possibly imagine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    I don't celebrate National Native Americans Welcomed Us With Open Arms and Helped Us Survive the First Winter That We Were Woefully Unprepared For and We Repaid Them By Taking Their Lands, Raping Their Women and Murdering Them Day....
    Several Indian tribes see this holiday as the beginning of a process by which they tragically lost their land, and their population was decimated. Every year Indians come together in Plymouth to commemorate their "national day of mourning."

  2. #602
    The Lightbringer Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sersel View Post
    Are you kidding me? Showing a UN map which holds results from the Palestinian British mandate period?
    And you claim to know your history? The part you are refering to and claiming your arguments on is merely a drop of the full bucket.
    You assume this landnicking game started out in 1946 or somewhere close then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
    This goes back beyond Christ yet the majority of the pro-palstinians here just pick the date that suits the best for them and just wipe out facts that are quite important in the whole to have a proper opinion.
    I don't care about pre-legal system things beyond a time where there's no direct connection to the people who lived there. The evidence shows Palestinians owned 93% and zionists owned 7%.

    End of story. Everything else is a form of romanticising nonsense.

    First i recommend you to look up what a 'palastine' was in the time of the British Mandate, ill give you a hint : there were also Palestinian Jews, which were reffered to as Palestine, but in fact were just Jew.
    Yes, that's what the maps show. Palestine was the region of the British mandate. Zionists moved there with British blessing and were relatively peaceful alongside Arabs.

    Because your definition of a Palestine is clearly not a Jew you're already wrong with your very first assumption.
    You what? Palestine is the region. Palestinians were the Arabs who lived there before the zionists started coming in the late 19th century, and who were Palestinian by political observance for about sixty years. Israel was formed out of chunks of Palestine, where the zionists were given hugely unfair amounts of land and Palestinians were forced off in one of the grandest forms of ethnic cleansing seen?

    This is so much more complicated then most of the people, who think to have a founded opinion on this, can possibly imagine.
    O rly?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  3. #603
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Yes, that's what the maps show. Palestine was the region of the British mandate. Zionists moved there with British blessing and were relatively peaceful alongside Arabs.
    so if histories shown us anything its that its impossible to peacefully co exist alongside zionists. theyll just keep taking more and more. they cant help themselves.

  4. #604
    The Lightbringer Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    so if histories shown us anything its that its impossible to peacefully co exist alongside zionists. theyll just keep taking more and more. they cant help themselves.
    I agree, but Israel also has a number of more moderates who really hate their government's policies. There's nothing inherent in the citizenry of Israel to want to keep seizing land, just certain government bodies and some of the more vehement of the populace.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  5. #605
    Being an Arab myself "Saudi Arabian to be specific" I would have to post what most Arabs think about the Palestine-Israel Crisis.
    -Israel plays the role of an innocent child, While Hamas plays the role of the monster.
    -Hamas was installed by Israel in order to have an excuse for destroying gaza every time there was an attack until Palestinians get fed up with it and leave the area so they can take over it. and the whole election thing is a scam.
    -The fact that the USA's first ally is Israel and it would do anything to keep it being recognized as a country, shows that the US government have some "unknown" plans for the middle east. e.x. The Iraq war was nothing more than a scam by George w. Bush.
    -A lot of the blame falls on the dictator Arab leaders because they could have anticipated this and made two official countries from the very start or allow for one country with 2 religions in them just like Lebanon "where Christians and Muslims rule together peacefully"
    -Most Arabs think that their leaders are nothing more than pawns installed by the US for Israel, US benefit.

    These are not my opinions but let's be grown ups here and discuss this intellectually.
    i am being completely honest about this and don't take me wrong. I also hate for any blood spill anywhere in the world and I believe that people should work together as humans but not as Jews or Muslims or Christians.

    I do believe people should be more like ... benevolent.

  6. #606
    Let's forget the whole "who started it" argument for a second, and focus on the current situation.

    In every round of escalation, there has always been a certain status quo - Hamas (or other organizations) fire rockets into southern Israel; Israel retaliates by taking out said organizations' members.
    However, this time, Hamas and the Islamic Palestinian Jihad broke the status quo by firing rockets not only on Tel Aviv, but on Jerusalem (to those who will say that it's due to the elimination of Ahmed Al-Jaabari, just take a look at Cast Lead, where high ranking Hamas officers were eliminated and yet not a single rocket was fired beyond the south of Israel).
    This makes the massive recruitment of reservists not the least bit shocking - especially when you consider how Hamas and others are always claiming how holy Jerusalem is to them (not enough to stop them firing rockets at it, I guess).

  7. #607
    The Lightbringer Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Let's forget the whole "who started it" argument for a second, and focus on the current situation.

    In every round of escalation, there has always been a certain status quo - Hamas (or other organizations) fire rockets into southern Israel; Israel retaliates by taking out said organizations' members.
    However, this time, Hamas and the Islamic Palestinian Jihad broke the status quo by firing rockets not only on Tel Aviv, but on Jerusalem (to those who will say that it's due to the elimination of Ahmed Al-Jaabari, just take a look at Cast Lead, where high ranking Hamas officers were eliminated and yet not a single rocket was fired beyond the south of Israel).
    This makes the massive recruitment of reservists not the least bit shocking - especially when you consider how Hamas and others are always claiming how holy Jerusalem is to them (not enough to stop them firing rockets at it, I guess).
    I completely agree with this. In the now, Israel can really only react one way.

    But like you said, it's just the "now." There's also a "why" and that is what I'm dealing with and why I'm so frustrated with Israel's actions.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  8. #608
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Let's forget the whole "who started it" argument for a second, and focus on the current situation.

    In every round of escalation, there has always been a certain status quo - Hamas (or other organizations) fire rockets into southern Israel; Israel retaliates by taking out said organizations' members.
    However, this time, Hamas and the Islamic Palestinian Jihad broke the status quo by firing rockets not only on Tel Aviv, but on Jerusalem (to those who will say that it's due to the elimination of Ahmed Al-Jaabari, just take a look at Cast Lead, where high ranking Hamas officers were eliminated and yet not a single rocket was fired beyond the south of Israel).
    This makes the massive recruitment of reservists not the least bit shocking - especially when you consider how Hamas and others are always claiming how holy Jerusalem is to them (not enough to stop them firing rockets at it, I guess).
    i would agree with you re status quo but not who broke it. Nov 8th the IDF shot a palestinian child which they then responded to rightly or wrongly with rockets. thats what broke the "status quo" and brought us to where we are.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    i would agree with you re status quo but not who broke it. Nov 8th the IDF shot a palestinian child which they then responded to rightly or wrongly with rockets. thats what broke the "status quo" and brought us to where we are.
    Mind sharing a source?

    *Edit*:
    After doing some searches of my own, I've come upon some very mixed reports regarding the incident you've mentioned.
    Some reports say the boy was shot in the head by a helicopter, others that he was shot in the side by a tank or a jeep, and that he died in the hospital. Finally, I've seen one report (which seems the most likely, considering my knowledge of how this conflict works) that he was killed after some members of the Popular Resistance Committees opened fire on an IDF patrol.
    Note that not a single report can in fact validate who it was that killed him.

    Now, I'd like to state that I am indeed sorry he died. I'd also like to say that these types of clashes are very much a part of the status quo, sad as it may be. Firing rockets on Jerusalem, however, is not. In fact, it's probably the biggest violation of the status quo that could have happened. Jerusalem, the city that's said to be the holiest place to all three Abrahamic religions, was attacked by a rocket strike.
    Last edited by Liara; 2012-11-17 at 11:26 AM.

  10. #610
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    There is a certain skewedness here, a definite tinge of "David and Goliath". I would like to point out that Israel was formed on land where people already lived, and had lived for a long time, without them getting any say in it. This theft of land has many sad paralells in history though, as does the illegal occupation of palestinian areas and the wall built (a wall that frequently separate people from their fields as well as vital services such as medical services). Let that lie though, and let us look at the current facts:

    *Hamas and/or groups that may / may not be controlled or controllable by them are shooting missiles towards Israel. Civillians are frequently injured or killed.
    *Israel is bombing Gaza, civillians are frequently killed.

    Seems to me neither side wants peace, and the civillians are the ones that suffer (in pure numbers, more palestinians than israelians, but suffering is not measured in numbers alone). So long as neither side shows any desire for peace, my sympathy goes out to the civillians, and I condemn the action of both the Israeli government and the groups that fire missiles from Gaza. Both of them are acting in a inhumane and foul way.
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  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    But of course, they send their children onto Palestinian buses with bomb vests so they can blow themselves up in the name of God... oops... they dont do that, the Palestinians do...

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 12:00 AM ----------



    I've come to the same conclusion about you that it appears several others have, you are so convinced in your propaganda that you cant see reality in the least, so... I'm done wasting my time with you, when the IDF finally gets tired of the bullshit they'll take the action they deem necessary to silence the rockets coming out of Gaza.
    well when u get kick out of ur own house by a "country" with the help of the Big Boss USA (yeah thats a fair fight) u kind of get a little pissed of... and u talk about killing childrens? yeah cuz isreal havent kill any palestinian kid at all... the isreal ppl are so nice, we should give them a private heaven only for them

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    I don't care about pre-legal system things beyond a time where there's no direct connection to the people who lived there. The evidence shows Palestinians owned 93% and zionists owned 7%.
    You know your approach to this whole conflict is exactly the reason why its a conflict, you don't care about 'pre-legal' systems which in fact were definately legal systems, yet you just chose to deny it because they don't fit in your reality, yet those are facts that happened.
    You assume because something is historical beyond your knowledge that it's pre-legal, hate to burst your bubble but you're so wrong again.
    Probably out of the same perspective you may even deny the happening of the holocaust.


    And you fail to understand the difference between a zionist, a jew and a palestinian jew, which i hinted you before, but you chose to not look it up and neglect it. Which is fine, but it doensnt add to your credibility and makes people not take you serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    You what? Palestine is the region. Palestinians were the Arabs who lived there before the zionists started coming in the late 19th century, and who were Palestinian
    The fact you define Palestinians merely as Arabs is your first fault. And try to look up who lived in the area before Palestine was actually Palestine, and im not referring to the Britisch Mandate Palestine..
    Although i can imagine that this is your referencepoint, as this is the only referencepoint in history that would make the point of the current Palestinians valid, yet it's the wrong reference point as this isnt the point the conflict started.

    But then again it totally fits in your way of neglecting parts of history that don't fit in your history.
    Last edited by Sersel; 2012-11-17 at 02:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    I don't celebrate National Native Americans Welcomed Us With Open Arms and Helped Us Survive the First Winter That We Were Woefully Unprepared For and We Repaid Them By Taking Their Lands, Raping Their Women and Murdering Them Day....
    Several Indian tribes see this holiday as the beginning of a process by which they tragically lost their land, and their population was decimated. Every year Indians come together in Plymouth to commemorate their "national day of mourning."

  13. #613
    Update:
    More rockets have been fired at Tel Aviv, but were intercepted by the newly stationed Iron Dome battery.

  14. #614
    Situation gets more dire everyday. I wonder when USA will realize israel is massacrating those folks and will stop suporting it. Of course it depends on USA citizens saying STOP to their leaders suporting israel. Why should USA fight a war from a country that thinks thats above all others in the region?
    English is not my main language so grammar errors might happen.

  15. #615
    Stood in the Fire Darkis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Update:
    More rockets have been fired at Tel Aviv, but were intercepted by the newly stationed Iron Dome battery.
    God help them if they hit Bat Yam. Then shit'll get real =)
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  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefastus View Post
    Situation gets more dire everyday. I wonder when USA will realize israel is massacrating those folks and will stop suporting it. Of course it depends on USA citizens saying STOP to their leaders suporting israel. Why should USA fight a war from a country that thinks thats above all others in the region?
    Allow me to correct you -
    1) Israel isn't "massacring" anyone. The IDF is using surgical strikes against terror cells in the Gaza Strip (you know, the ones who are launching rockets vaguely directed into cities in the hope of killing as many Israelis as possible). The only reason there have been civilian casualties among the Gazan population, is that these terror cells choose to operate within heavily populated areas (in the hope that Israel will kill as many civilians as well, so that they can then be called "massacring" by people like you).

    2) The US has absolutely no involvement in Operation Pillar of Cloud, and Israel is not the US's lapdog / puppet / whateverthefuckyouwanttocallit.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 05:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkis View Post
    God help them if they hit Bat Yam. Then shit'll get real =)
    Hahaha Hell hath no fury like a Bat-Yamian scorned :P

  17. #617
    Stood in the Fire Darkis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Allow me to correct you -
    1) Israel isn't "massacring" anyone. The IDF is using surgical strikes against terror cells in the Gaza Strip (you know, the ones who are launching rockets vaguely directed into cities in the hope of killing as many Israelis as possible). The only reason there have been civilian casualties among the Gazan population, is that these terror cells choose to operate within heavily populated areas (in the hope that Israel will kill as many civilians as well, so that they can then be called "massacring" by people like you).

    2) The US has absolutely no involvement in Operation Pillar of Cloud, and Israel is not the US's lapdog / puppet / whateverthefuckyouwanttocallit.[COLOR="red"]
    Hamas has openly admited to using civilians as humas shield quite a while ago, so that comes as no surprise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Hahaha Hell hath no fury like a Bat-Yamian scorned :P
    Yeah, i can almost hear knives being sharpened, and Subaru engines warming up =)
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  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkis View Post
    Yeah, i can almost hear knives being sharpened, and Subaru engines warming up =)
    I literally snorted with laughter from reading that

  19. #619
    The Lightbringer Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sersel View Post
    You know your approach to this whole conflict is exactly the reason why its a conflict, you don't care about 'pre-legal' systems which in fact were definately legal systems, yet you just chose to deny it because they don't fit in your reality, yet those are facts that happened.
    Alright. Find me some evidence that zionists owned the land and not Palestinians then?

    You assume because something is historical beyond your knowledge that it's pre-legal, hate to burst your bubble but you're so wrong again.
    Probably out of the same perspective you may even deny the happening of the holocaust.
    Lulz. I know what the diaspora is, that should be enough to make this sidebar argument unneeded.

    And you fail to understand the difference between a zionist, a jew and a palestinian jew, which i hinted you before, but you chose to not look it up and neglect it. Which is fine, but it doensnt add to your credibility and makes people not take you serious.
    I know what the difference is. Tell me why it even matters.

    The fact you define Palestinians merely as Arabs is your first fault. And try to look up who lived in the area before Palestine was actually Palestine, and im not referring to the Britisch Mandate Palestine..
    You mean the Palestinian Arabs in the Ottoman Empire?

    Although i can imagine that this is your referencepoint, as this is the only referencepoint in history that would make the point of the current Palestinians valid
    What the hell are you talking about? The only valid part of history here is who owned the land before the UN divided it up and screwed over the Palestinians to give disproportionate land to the new Israeli state. Who lived there two hundred years ago is irrelevent. The Palestinians had their lands and homes seized and were forcibly evicted, often at gunpoint.

    But then again it totally fits in your way of neglecting parts of history that don't fit in your history.
    I clearly know a lot more than you?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  20. #620
    its funny how Israel threatened for more than a year that they will attack iran, and then they attack gaza,
    and its funny how the Syrian and the Iranian government threatened to attack Israel and the they attack their own people .
    "We always knew that our rights can only be regained by force and that is why we have chosen the ammunition box instead of the ballot box"
    "الامة التي لا تحسن صناعة الموت لا تحسن صناعة الحياة"

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