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  1. #781
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    so voting in your leaders isnt self-determination?
    Being forced off the land you own isn't self-determination either. That's why Charles de Gaulles' government in exile became a proper government when they retook France.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  2. #782
    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    So far, since the issue escalated, 506 rockets have fallen in Israeli territories, and 267 were intercepted by the Iron Dome systems. Which means, that effectively, 1/3 of all rockets and missiles have been intercepted. Of the 506 rockets that DID land, only about 50 did any damage to property, and only 3 did any damage to human lives.

    Just so you know Iron Dome doesn't try to intercept all rockets. When a rocket is launched they know the vicinity of where it will land. If it's out in the middle of nowhere they just let it go and report it as a rocket fired into Israel. If a rocket has a chance to land to where it could do damage, then Iron Dome fires 2-3 rockets to try to take it out.

    I can see why the numbers may be misleading, and I really think Israel should announce how many rockets they fired upon.

    Also somebody pointed out in this thread that the US bought them for Israel and gave them all the stuff to make them. Actually Iron Dome was 100% built and designed by a company in Israel. The US did give them some money to build more of them. Also they are in talks to trade the technology and have some of them built right here in the US and shipped to bases over seas.

  3. #783
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
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    This is really the last warning here. Any further sniping or flaming or trolling will be met with the full force or our rules system.

  4. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    You took their territories and forced them to leave at gunpoint. That's not self-determination. After all, you can switch off their power and water when you want; that's not self-determination either.

    I could point out the further UN resolution about occupiers needing to leave occupied nations?
    Provide proof for your dribble. If you can.

  5. #785
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    Provide proof for your dribble. If you can.
    Very easy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...tion_1514_(XV)

    Now would you kindly slink back to your 47 borders and leave them alone?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  6. #786
    Quote Originally Posted by Isotope View Post
    Just so you know Iron Dome doesn't try to intercept all rockets. When a rocket is launched they know the vicinity of where it will land. If it's out in the middle of nowhere they just let it go and report it as a rocket fired into Israel. If a rocket has a chance to land to where it could do damage, then Iron Dome fires 2-3 rockets to try to take it out.

    I can see why the numbers may be misleading, and I really think Israel should announce how many rockets they fired upon.

    Also somebody pointed out in this thread that the US bought them for Israel and gave them all the stuff to make them. Actually Iron Dome was 100% built and designed by a company in Israel. The US did give them some money to build more of them. Also they are in talks to trade the technology and have some of them built right here in the US and shipped to bases over seas.
    I am well aware of these points. But rather avoid stating them, to avoid giving the ones firing rockets the certainty of knowing that whenever a rocket is intercepted, the course they set was good.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 08:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Very easy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...tion_1514_(XV)

    Now would you kindly slink back to your 47 borders and leave them alone?
    No part of that resolution says any lands beyond the ones they have need to be given. No part of it means more lands are to be supplied. And no part of it talks about how the scenario changes when the yearning becomes terrorism.

  7. #787
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    No part of that resolution says any lands beyond the ones they have need to be given. No part of it means more lands are to be supplied. And no part of it talks about how the scenario changes when the yearning becomes terrorism.
    Nobody is asking for extra land to be given to Palestine, just the land they legally own. People have the right to self-determination, self-defence and justice, even if the psychopathic bully next door keeps getting bigger guns and keeps killing innocents.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  8. #788
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Actually you didn't answer the question. I asked, for what reason does land belong to someone?
    Read all I wrote when I answered you. I did provide you with all the "ways" for a people to own land. Either they have historical ties to it, it was given to them by whoever owned the land before them, or they took it by force. In this case, Israel happens to fit into all 3 categories. It only helps reinforce their ownership, I'd say.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 09:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Nobody is asking for extra land to be given to Palestine, just the land they legally own. People have the right to self-determination, self-defence and justice, even if the psychopathic bully next door keeps getting bigger guns and keeps killing innocents.
    The land they legally own is legally owned by someone else. They simply want their neighbour's lands, and, as the psychopathic bullies they are, fire rockets and missiles blindly to kill innocent civilians.

    See? 2 can play the twister game.

  9. #789
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    The land they legally own is legally owned by someone else. They simply want their neighbour's lands, and, as the psychopathic bullies they are, fire rockets and missiles blindly to kill innocent civilians.

    See? 2 can play the twister game.
    It's stolen. Stop pretending it's anything but. Look at the land they owned pre 47. All Palestine wants are the lands they owned and were stolen at gunpoint.

    That's what a psychopathic bully does - steal land and blame the victim. Israel is a terrorist state. It kills tens of thousands more innocents than Hamas ever could.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Nobody is asking for extra land to be given to Palestine, just the land they legally own. People have the right to self-determination, self-defence and justice, even if the psychopathic bully next door keeps getting bigger guns and keeps killing innocents.
    Hear Hear!


  11. #791
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
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    wow.. not listening and we're 1 step away from thread close..

  12. #792
    Scarab Lord xylophone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzzie View Post
    wow.. not listening and we're 1 step away from thread close..
    I think you're bluffing, you don't have the guts...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Lets say you have a two 3 inch lines. One is all red and the other is 48% red and 52% blue. Does that mean there's a 50-50 chance they're both red or is the second line matching the all red line by 48%?
    ^^^ Wells using an analogy

  13. #793
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzzie View Post
    wow.. not listening and we're 1 step away from thread close..
    I think it should close. It's not going anywhere.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  14. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    It's stolen. Stop pretending it's anything but. Look at the land they owned pre 47. All Palestine wants are the lands they owned and were stolen at gunpoint.

    That's what a psychopathic bully does - steal land and blame the victim. Israel is a terrorist state. It kills tens of thousands more innocents than Hamas ever could.
    And we're back to throwing all sense outta the window and back to namecalling and propaganda. Cheers, you just reminded me why Hamas can only be stopped with guns.

    A good time to close this as any, if after 40 pages all you can come up with is repeated and over-chewed lines.

  15. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    I am well aware of these points. But rather avoid stating them, to avoid giving the ones firing rockets the certainty of knowing that whenever a rocket is intercepted, the course they set was good.
    Or do you state that we fired upon 'X' amount of rockets and took out 'Y' amount. To make the Hamas see that they aren't doing anything for their work and could force them to stop that way. Making it seem like they are actually hitting targets in Israel gives them the confidence that they are actually doing something.

    One more thing I think people should know or understand. These rockets have zero guidance on them. So when Hamas launches them they have no idea where they are going to end up. So they are just blindingly firing rockets into Israel hopping to hit anything. No matter what your stance on the issue is, you cannot condone those types of actions.

  16. #796
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    And we're back to throwing all sense outta the window and back to namecalling and propaganda. Cheers, you just reminded me why Hamas can only be stopped with guns.

    A good time to close this as any, if after 40 pages all you can come up with is repeated and over-chewed lines.
    The statistics bear out. You're the one who denies legality, UN resolutions, official maps, and official reports to parrot the Israeli party line.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  17. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    I didn't realize RoI was launching hundreds of rockets a year into England.
    your right, they werent throwing rockets over the wall that hit no one, they were planting car bombs next to parliament buildings and killing many

  18. #798
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    So far all I've taken away from this discussion is that both the pro-Israel party and the pro-Palestine party are filling the air with propaganda and nothing is true. Is it safe to assume that both sides are assholes? I mean, I'm really confused here.

  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by undercovergnome View Post
    your right, they werent throwing rockets over the wall that hit no one, they were planting car bombs next to parliament buildings and killing many
    Newsflash, Hamas and other Islamic terrorist groups have been doing that in Israel for years. The only reason it hasn't happened as much in the past decade, is simply because of the blockades and the stricter passage of Palestinians into Israel. Which, seeing the results, shows how effective it is.
    I rather have blind rockets daily, than a suicide bomber in a school once a month.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 09:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    So far all I've taken away from this discussion is that both the pro-Israel party and the pro-Palestine party are filling the air with propaganda and nothing is true. Is it safe to assume that both sides are assholes? I mean, I'm really confused here.
    You're right to be confused. But what you must know, on this topic, is that Hamas are firing rockets blindly into Israel, which forced the Israeli army to waltz in and kick some ass to stop them. For every action, there is a reaction. And the first reaction of the Pro-Palestinians is stating how right they are by blindly firing rockets at civilians, and how wrong Israel is for defending itself. We're all assholes. But even assholes can be right and wrong.

  20. #800
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    So far all I've taken away from this discussion is that both the pro-Israel party and the pro-Palestine party are filling the air with propaganda and nothing is true. Is it safe to assume that both sides are assholes? I mean, I'm really confused here.
    What propaganda have I actually spouted though?

    And yes, Israel and Hamas both are arseholes. They both kill innocents. Difference is Hamas is fighting for self-determination and to get their land back, while Israel stole it and keep the Palestinians down.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

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