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  1. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    The statistics bear out. You're the one who denies legality, UN resolutions, official maps, and official reports to parrot the Israeli party line.
    Statistics? Source? Proof? Anything else to say besides your usual twistytwist?
    Every time I asked you for sources, you provided ambiguous answers. Every time I provided facts, sources and proof, you deflected or out-right ignored them.

    You are simply wrong and too blind to see it. Just because you want something to be true, it doesn't make it so.
    I had a toy when I was a child, it was lost because I accidentally set it on fire. I don't go around crying daily that I want my toy back. That is how you sound when you repeat on every 4th post "47' borders blah blah weeeeeeeeh"

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 09:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    What propaganda have I actually spouted though?

    And yes, Israel and Hamas both are arseholes. They both kill innocents. Difference is Hamas is fighting for self-determination and to get their land back, while Israel stole it and keep the Palestinians down.
    That propaganda, maybe? Lol.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Pendulous; 2012-11-18 at 10:52 PM.

  2. #802
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Did I mention you specifically? I just see claims of Israeli and Palestinian propaganda from the two sides and I don't know who to believe. And it's not just claims, people are disputing historical events.

  3. #803
    Quote Originally Posted by Bromance22 View Post
    Palestine was never a country, Palestinians should go to there brothers and sisters in Jordan/Egypt/Syria, there all arabs, all from the same region. Israel is a country formed in what used to be the British Mandate of Palestine, the Arabs didnt like that so they attacked and started a war. Israel won said war, expanded there borders (extremely modest expansion) so that they could make sure they could defend their sovereignty and citizens from harm, being surrounded by a race of people that dont believe they have the right to exist. In the end the one with the biggest stick has control. Israel not only has the biggest stick but is also a first world country, far more advanced than any other in the mid east.
    Only when the palestinain people tell their governments to halt aggression against Israel (rockets every day) and speak out against suicide bombings and wretched things like that will Israel even think about stopping their expansion into the West Bank. The palestinians have been refugees for 60 years and have done nothing with the territory they "control". Israel has professionals in all fields of life, producing doctors, lawyers, businessmen, innovation and the like, Palestinians want to do to Israel what they did to Gaza, turn the whole god dam place into a dependent ghetto that requires handouts to even be able to go about day to day life.

    One last thing. Arabs can be citizens in Israel, Jews cannot in any middle eastern country aside from ISrael. Now i know there is resentment in Israel between the Jewish and Arab peoples, but that is similar to how a Frenchman or Brit would feel about a German after WW1/2, in middle eastern countries if your a Jew you should be killed on the grounds that you are exactly that, a Jew. There is a black and white difference between the two peoples, with very little grey areas.
    what about all the jews in Iran? Iran has the second biggest population of jews outside israel....

  4. #804
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    Statistics? Source? Proof? Anything else to say besides your usual twistytwist?
    Check back and stop being lazy. You've seen maps (denied them with hilarious nonsense; couldn't provide "real maps" because they don't exist,) UN resolutions (again denied outright) and logic (well, denied that but that's obvious)

    Every time I asked you for sources, you provided ambiguous answers. Every time I provided facts, sources and proof, you deflected or out-right ignored them.
    They're only ambiguous to someone insanely irrational.

    You are simply wrong and too blind to see it. Just because you want something to be true, it doesn't make it so.
    Oh pooh pooh. Stop ignoring the facts and the statistics and the evidence and come up with an argument not based on lies. Everything seems to be an ad hominem with you; "you're just wrong!" wins no arguments while the Palestinians have had their land stolen and forced off at gunpoint. It's ridiculous.

    I had a toy when I was a child, it was lost because I accidentally set it on fire. I don't go around crying daily that I want my toy back.
    So millions of innocent people having their land stolen is equivalent to a toy. A. toy. Thousands have been killed in Israeli attacks and tens of thousands starved to death. It's a toy to you. Palestinians are people and deserve a hell of a lot more respect than you show, as all humans do.

    That propaganda, maybe? Lol.
    When your view of the world is so distorted by fallacy and lies, the truth always appears skewed. It's not propaganda; Israel took it at gunpoint, oppress the Palestinians and build illegal settlements. Indisputable facts.

    Did I mention you specifically? I just see claims of Israeli and Palestinian propaganda from the two sides and I don't know who to believe. And it's not just claims, people are disputing historical events.
    I just asked, it wasn't a criticism. There are blatantly ignorant pro-Israelis and blatantly ignorant pro-Palestinians. That doesn't mean the middle is right.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement - more blatant disregard for laws by Israel.
    Last edited by Zhangfei; 2012-11-18 at 07:31 AM.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  5. #805
    Quote Originally Posted by undercovergnome View Post
    what about all the jews in Iran? Iran has the second biggest population of jews outside israel....
    Lol, where did you get that from?
    There are about 10.000 Jews left in Iran.
    For comparison, there are close to 6 million Jews in the US, and close to 200 thousand in Argentina, as examples.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 09:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    When your view of the world is so distorted by fallacy and lies, the truth always appears skewed. It's not propaganda; Israel took it at gunpoint, oppress the Palestinians and build illegal settlements. Indisputable facts.
    I am just quoting this, for the incredible contrast and your inability to apply the first line to yourself. All you do is spew lies. And shout "LIAR" whenever you're presented with the truth. It gets quite tiresome.

  6. #806
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    I am just quoting this, for the incredible contrast and your inability to apply the first line to yourself. All you do is spew lies. And shout "LIAR" whenever you're presented with the truth. It gets quite tiresome.
    Please deal with the facts at hand for once, such as your defence of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement and how it breaks the Oslo treaty, making Israel the main cause for Hamas' rockets?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  7. #807
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
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    Just going to jump in here and say, reports are great, but reporting someone you disagree with is not. We see through that stuff. Reporting doesn't mean someones gonna get an infraction. Abusing the system to report people you disagree with will in fact earn you ban points.

  8. #808
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzzie View Post
    Just going to jump in here and say, reports are great, but reporting someone you disagree with is not. We see through that stuff. Reporting doesn't mean someones gonna get an infraction. Abusing the system to report people you disagree with will in fact earn you ban points.
    Much love.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 09:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Please deal with the facts at hand for once, such as your defence of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement and how it breaks the Oslo treaty, making Israel the main cause for Hamas' rockets?
    Now you're talking about Israeli settlements in the West Bank, while Hamas controls the Gaza Strip, and the missiles are fired FROM the Gaza Strip, while the West Bank is peaceful and tries to achieve their goals through diplomacy?
    You mean how the Gaza Strip was much quieter and even the Palestinian people living there had betters lives UNTIL 2006 when Israel pulled back the settlements from there?

    I don't see the relation between the settlements in the West Bank and Hamas trying to kill innocents by firing missiles from Gaza. I also see no reason to bring up Oslo treaty when speaking about a terrorist group firing on civilians.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 10:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    the Palestinians have had their land stolen and forced off at gunpoint.
    I want proof and sources of that. If you can provide for such a blatant lie.

  9. #809
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    Yes, in fact they are fantastic tanks, with superb targeting ability. The US built them. The are the M1A1 tanks, and they are, for that region, top of the line. Those tanks participate in "bullseye" contests regularly, hitting targets more than a mile away, no larger than a motorcycle.
    No, they are actually better then Abrams (Merkava 4). Built by themselves. It's a MBT, and APC rolled into one unit, it's actually fucking ingenious and amazing piece of hardware, but that is another story.
    "Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus

  10. #810
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Now you're talking about Israeli settlements in the West Bank, while Hamas controls the Gaza Strip, and the missiles are fired FROM the Gaza Strip, while the West Bank is peaceful and tries to achieve their goals through diplomacy?
    It's all Palestine, we don't divide up other countries like this.

    You mean how the Gaza Strip was much quieter and even the Palestinian people living there had betters lives UNTIL 2006 when Israel pulled back the settlements from there?
    Woah you mean the illegal invaders brought money and resources? Of course it's slightly "better" when that happens. It shows how crap it is when they're not there which demonstrates how ridiculous it is.

    I don't see the relation between the settlements in the West Bank and Hamas trying to kill innocents by firing missiles from Gaza.
    You broke the treaty so the non-aggression element is finished. Do you really think Israel is a God that can subvert all law and rules and not receive some retribution?

    I want proof and sources of that. If you can provide for such a blatant lie.
    Well, you have the 1948 war and the 1967 war that both stole land illegally - you cannot seize territory through warfare according to the UN. So there's those - you do agree those happened, right?

    Second: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus - pay attention to
    Nur-eldeen Masalha writes that over 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants left their towns and villages in 1948, while Rashid Khalidi puts the percentage at 50.[8][9] Factors involved in the flight include Jewish military advances, attacks against Arab villages and fears of massacre after Deir Yassin,[10]:239–240 which caused many to leave out of panic; expulsion orders by Zionist authorities; the voluntary self-removal of the wealthier classes,[11] the collapse in Palestinian leadership,[12] and an unwillingness to live under Jewish control.[13] Later, a series of laws passed by the first Israeli government prevented them from returning to their homes, or claiming their property. They and many of their descendants remain refugees.[14][15] Later in the war, Palestinians were expelled as part of Plan Dalet.[16] The expulsion of the Palestinians has since been described by some historians as ethnic cleansing,[17][18][19] while others dispute this charge.[20][21][22]
    Force them off with guns then steal their land. Job done. Classic ethnic cleansing.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  11. #811
    The US and Israel are allies.

  12. #812
    Gotta love pointless holy wars over a fictional fairy in the clouds.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Wikiy; 2012-11-18 at 01:25 PM.

  13. #813
    Banned Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blimey View Post
    gotta love pointless holy wars over a fictional fairy in the clouds.
    hey god is an elf not no sissy fairy

    edit:.... where did all my capitol letters go

  14. #814
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blimey View Post
    Gotta love pointless holy wars over a fictional fairy in the clouds.
    Are you kidding? Israel and Palestine are fighting over land, not religion.

    Let's not bring religion into this. For one, it's banned. For two, it's pretty much irrelevant.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  15. #815
    Quote Originally Posted by undercovergnome View Post
    what about all the jews in Iran? Iran has the second biggest population of jews outside israel....
    just to clarify, that is only in the middle east..not the entire world..

    EDIT: would you losers stop using wikipedia as a credible source..lol

  16. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    So far all I've taken away from this discussion is that both the pro-Israel party and the pro-Palestine party are filling the air with propaganda and nothing is true. Is it safe to assume that both sides are assholes? I mean, I'm really confused here.
    I'd say that's pretty accurate.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  17. #817
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    It's all Palestine, we don't divide up other countries like this.
    Deflection #1. Countries are divided into zones, areas, states, cities, town. We DO divide countries like this. They divided it themselves when the West Bank agreed to be governed by the PLO and whats left of them, and Gaza strip "decided" (Read: were forced at gun point by Hamas) to choose Hamas as their government.

    Woah you mean the illegal invaders brought money and resources? Of course it's slightly "better" when that happens. It shows how crap it is when they're not there which demonstrates how ridiculous it is.
    Ridicule a statement when you have no actual comeback. Classy. You know who was harmed when Israel pulled out? The average joe man, the guy working for a living. The same kind of man you and your peers like to use for human shields and agenda-pushers for your goals.

    You broke the treaty so the non-aggression element is finished. Do you really think Israel is a God that can subvert all law and rules and not receive some retribution?
    We broke the treaty, by forcing them to fire missiles and rockets blindly towards innocent civilians, for the last 4 years or so? Or maybe we broke it by kidnapping a soldier and keeping him hidden underground for over 5 years...? Or wait, maybe we broke it by smuggling missiles and armaments through underground tunnels. Or maybe by attempting suicide bombings in their cities. Oh, wait... That was them.

    Are you aware that anyone with an internet connection can edit a wikipedia article?
    Also, do you mean to tell me them dirty Jews dared punish the ones who raised their weapons against them together with the armies of 7 other countries?! HOW DARE THEY!
    Punishment is so weird, no humans do it. Specially against the guys who just tried to kill them. Just sayin'
    Last edited by Valort; 2012-11-18 at 09:36 AM.

  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Are you kidding? Israel and Palestine are fighting over land, not religion.

    Let's not bring religion into this. For one, it's banned. For two, it's pretty much irrelevant.
    They fight over both. And fighting over land doesn't make it all better. In fact it shows that humans are the dumbest and instinctual animal on earth.

  19. #819
    Quote Originally Posted by Celltrex View Post
    They fight over both. And fighting over land doesn't make it all better. In fact it shows that humans are the dumbest and instinctual animal on earth.
    He still denies the only reason they fight over land is because of their religious differences.
    Otherwise, Jerusalem wouldn't be the veto-card on every peace talk to this day.

  20. #820
    I think what concerns me the most is that 1 out of 8 rockets that Gaza launches don't even make it outside the borders of Gaza. Stories are now coming out about how they are claiming civilian deaths from Israeli air strikes when it is in fact a rocket fired from Gaza that killed them.

    http://elderofziyon.blogspot.co.il/2...as-killed.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/wo...ire.html?_r=1&
    http://www.usnews.com/news/world/art...an-battle-zone

    No matter what side you agree with the fact is Gaza is doing just as much damage to their own people as they are claiming Israel is.

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