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  1. #961
    Quote Originally Posted by igame View Post
    The western world has been sympathetic towards Israel because of what they went through during holocaust and rightly so, but how can one continue to support them in face of the extreme and ruthless amount of force Israel is using with no regard to civilian lives.
    Leave it to the jews to find a profit in something as horrible as the holocaust. I'm wondering if by now they're even happy that it happened because it helps them a lot by making them the victim in every situation. Really digusting if you ask me. They're pissing on their own graves.

    Infracted: Please respect other nations/religions
    Last edited by Pendulous; 2012-11-19 at 08:53 PM.

  2. #962
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    The mask slips http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...holocaust.html

    A senior Israeli politician provoked controversy today when he warned that Palestinians firing rockets from Gaza would be punished with a "bigger holocaust" from Israeli armed forces.

  3. #963
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    I was never aware that someone said that. He really need to be ashamed of himself because he wants to inflict a suffering similar to that that was inflicted upon his people in the past. Words cannot describe how disgusted I am with this notion.

  4. #964
    I am Murloc! UncleSilas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    I was never aware that someone said that. He really need to be ashamed of himself because he wants to inflict a suffering similar to that that was inflicted upon his people in the past. Words cannot describe how disgusted I am with this notion.
    That's not the first time that sentiment has come out of Israeli politics. It's a sick notion some extreme politicians share.

  5. #965
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleSilas View Post
    That's not the first time that sentiment has come out of Israeli politics. It's a sick notion some extreme politicians share.
    While we are still in WWII era, let us not forget that while many are losing jobs and livelyhoods, the banks and institutions run by Jews prosper on other's misery.

  6. #966
    I am Murloc! UncleSilas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by igame View Post
    While we are still in WWII era, let us not forget that while many are losing jobs and livelyhoods, the banks and institutions run by Jews prosper on other's misery.
    What? You're implying that private Jewish citizens profit off of the misery of others, and that this somehow impacts on the arguments concerning Gaza? Christians profit off of misery, does that make Ireland a cesspit?:P

  7. #967

    Hi i read Israel news

    Hi i read Israel news & have not heard of such things. I know that Israel politicians take it very seriously in fact there was a Vegan Activist who was frowned upon when he simulate the meat industry with Animal holocaust.

  8. #968
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Matan Vilnai, deputy defence minister, broke that taboo when he used the term "shoah" during interview on Army Radio.

    "The more qassam fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they (the Palestinians) will bring upon themselves a bigger shoah because we will use all our might to defend ourselves," he said.
    I wasnt aware there were grades of holocaust? a bigger shoah? how does that work? unfortunate language from someone as senior as a defence minister.

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    Well, Zionism is/was basically the support of establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. That's essentially giving race A land that race B have lived on for hundreds of years, based on a 2000-year old claim. I wouldn't call it directly racist, but i wouldn't call it completely innocent either.
    I just have to iterate the fact that it's not Palestine (which is just a geographical area named by the Romans after the Philistines), but Israel. Furthermore, while some Palestinians have no doubt lived in this area for hundreds of years, so have some of the Jews. Most (on both sides) haven't.

    Lastly, I'd like to point out that I hate the historical argument, but what bothers me is that when the partition plan was suggested, it was accepted by the Jews and rejected by the Arabs (not known as "Palestinians" at the time), who then proceeded to declare war and open up a 6 front war on Israel. To those saying the partition plan was unfair because Jews owned 7% of the land and Palestinians 93%, let me just say that the land isn't divided up into "What Jews own" and "Everything else belongs to Palestinians". Roughly 50% of what is now Israel was unlivable areas (mainly the Negev desert). The partition plan was drawn up specifically to encompass the Jewish population. By attacking the newly founded Israel (and the Jews before Israel was founded and was just an idea), they lost their territory. When Israel tried to give back the Gaza Strip and the West Bank after the 6 day war, the Egyptians and Jordanians utterly refused. And yet now they (the Egyptians more than Jordan) claim to be the Palestinians' brothers and defenders - and yet if anyone suggests that they take control of Gaza, they will laugh it off.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 11:15 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    I wasnt aware there were grades of holocaust? a bigger shoah? how does that work? unfortunate language from someone as senior as a defence minister.
    It is indeed very unfortunate (and even downright moronic) that he used that term.
    However, this article is from February 2008, so it holds zero relevance (as he's not even in the government anymore).

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    I was never aware that someone said that. He really need to be ashamed of himself because he wants to inflict a suffering similar to that that was inflicted upon his people in the past. Words cannot describe how disgusted I am with this notion.
    I agree, you'd think that they would be the last people on earth to do something like what is happening now, after what happened to them in WWII. How can one sympathize them (I'm not excusing the Nazi's) when they are doing the same thing to other people?

  11. #971
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    one only has to look to the founders of modern israel to see the origins of the master plan

    Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25,1982:

    "[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
    David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff.
    From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978:

    "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
    or more recently

    Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998:

    "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
    Michael Ben-Yair, Attorney General of Israel, 1993-1996 (in Ha'aretz):

    "The Intifada is the Palestinian's people's war of national liberation. We [Israel] enthusiastically chose to become a colonialist society, ignoring international treaties, expropriating lands, transferring settlers from Israel to the Occupied Territories, engaging in theft and funding justification for all these activities.. we [Israel] established an apartheid regime."

  12. #972
    Scarab Lord Azalu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaniinchen View Post
    I agree, you'd think that they would be the last people on earth to do something like what is happening now, after what happened to them in WWII. How can one sympathize them (I'm not excusing the Nazi's) when they are doing the same thing to other people?
    Because people don't learn. I don't just feel any sympathy either way

    I'm just glad my government isn't funding this, i'd be mad as hell if my taxes were being put towards this farce. I'm already against the "war on terror" as it is

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    I just have to iterate the fact that it's not Palestine (which is just a geographical area named by the Romans after the Philistines), but Israel. Furthermore, while some Palestinians have no doubt lived in this area for hundreds of years, so have some of the Jews. Most (on both sides) haven't.

    Lastly, I'd like to point out that I hate the historical argument, but what bothers me is that when the partition plan was suggested, it was accepted by the Jews and rejected by the Arabs (not known as "Palestinians" at the time), who then proceeded to declare war and open up a 6 front war on Israel. To those saying the partition plan was unfair because Jews owned 7% of the land and Palestinians 93%, let me just say that the land isn't divided up into "What Jews own" and "Everything else belongs to Palestinians". Roughly 50% of what is now Israel was unlivable areas (mainly the Negev desert). The partition plan was drawn up specifically to encompass the Jewish population. By attacking the newly founded Israel (and the Jews before Israel was founded and was just an idea), they lost their territory. When Israel tried to give back the Gaza Strip and the West Bank after the 6 day war, the Egyptians and Jordanians utterly refused. And yet now they (the Egyptians more than Jordan) claim to be the Palestinians' brothers and defenders - and yet if anyone suggests that they take control of Gaza, they will laugh it off.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 11:15 AM ----------



    It is indeed very unfortunate (and even downright moronic) that he used that term.
    However, this article is from February 2008, so it holds zero relevance (as he's not even in the government anymore).
    Sorry but all Palestinians lived their for more then hundred of years the same can't be about Israeli people. Israel claims the land based on a event that may (or may not) happened 2000 years ago at no fault of the Palestinian or Arab people (The Romans banished the Jews as far as I know).

    And I've told you many times but I will say it again. NO Bloody Nation would have accepted the fact that the UN at that time decided to give the lands which before belonged to the native people to a group of immigrants. Israel doesn't even accept Palestine even though they have a much better claim.

    To emphasise this more every few months I read that a politician (or a terrorist sometimes) claims that Muslims are taking over the country (every time it is a different country and do note that the claim has no basis), and their response is to fight back in some way (laws and terror attacks).

    And on the holocaust remark how is that even a surprise. If Palestinians go to the UN they will suffer heavy consequences, if they attack Israel they will suffer heavy consequences and if they go to the negotiating table they will suffer heavy consequences because talks will never work if the other side things he has nothing to gain.

    Whatever they do the answer is ''they will suffer heavy consequences'', it may not be quick genocide but their has been a slow one going on for years. You can't destroy the infrastructure, (news) buildings, schools, harbours, power-plants, businesses and houses and expect people to live a healthy and productive live. Even if a person isn't killed by a weapon they will eventually get sick.

    The path to peace is simple, the UN acknowledges Palestinian as a sovereign nation which gives some certain rights. Negations only works if both party's are equal which is not the case in the current situation.

  14. #974
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Sorry but all Palestinians lived their for more then hundred of years the same can't be about Israeli people. Israel claims the land based on a event that may (or may not) happened 2000 years ago at no fault of the Palestinian or Arab people (The Romans banished the Jews as far as I know).

    And I've told you many times but I will say it again. NO Bloody Nation would have accepted the fact that the UN at that time decided to give the lands which before belonged to the native people to a group of immigrants. Israel doesn't even accept Palestine even though they have a much better claim.

    To emphasise this more every few months I read that a politician (or a terrorist sometimes) claims that Muslims are taking over the country (every time it is a different country and do note that the claim has no basis), and their response is to fight back in some way (laws and terror attacks).

    And on the holocaust remark how is that even a surprise. If Palestinians go to the UN they will suffer heavy consequences, if they attack Israel they will suffer heavy consequences and if they go to the negotiating table they will suffer heavy consequences because talks will never work if the other side things he has nothing to gain.

    Whatever they do the answer is ''they will suffer heavy consequences'', it may not be quick genocide but their has been a slow one going on for years. You can't destroy the infrastructure, (news) buildings, schools, harbours, power-plants, businesses and houses and expect people to live a healthy and productive live. Even if a person isn't killed by a weapon they will eventually get sick.

    The path to peace is simple, the UN acknowledges Palestinian as a sovereign nation which gives some certain rights. Negations only works if both party's are equal which is not the case in the current situation.
    You're right, the current situation isn't equal. Israel recognizes the Palestinian people's right to a state. The Palestinians don't recognize Israel as a Jewish nation. Their leaders want it all. You know what? Fuck that.

    And you can keep claiming that the area belonged to the Palestinians. They weren't even a "people" before the 50's-60's, they were simply Arabs from different countries (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc.), and the area was controlled by the British, and the Ottomans before them.
    To quote Zuheir Mohsen, leader of the as-Sa'iqa faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization, from an interview he gave to the Dutch newspaper Trouw:
    Between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences. We are all part of ONE people, the Arab nation. Look, I have family members with Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship. We are ONE people. Just for political reasons we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new tool to continue the fight against Israel and for Arab unity.
    A separate Palestinian entity needs to fight for the national interest in the then remaining occupied territories. The Jordanian government cannot speak for Palestinians in Israel, Lebanon or Syria. Jordan is a state with specific borders. It cannot lay claim on - for instance - Haifa or Jaffa, while I AM entitled to Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem and Beersheba. Jordan can only speak for Jordanians and the Palestinians in Jordan. The Palestinian state would be entitled to represent all Palestinians in the Arab world and elsewhere. Once we have accomplished all of our rights in all of Palestine, we shouldn't postpone the unification of Jordan and Palestine for one second.
    You could of course claim this is anecdotal, and I won't deny that - however, every single peace of evidence that has been brought against Israel (such as the holocaust remark) is also completely anecdotal.

    To sum up - Israel (well, most of it) recognizes the Palestinians' right to statehood, whereas Hamas doesn't recognize Israel.
    A quote that articulates it rather well -
    If Hamas puts down its weapons, there will be peace. If Israel puts down its weapons, there will be no more Israel.
    You can try and deny it all you want - but the fact of the matter is that Israel doesn't send its soldiers to mindlessly and indiscriminately kill Palestinians, whereas the Palestinian factions send rockets, suicide bombers (that we have managed to stop) and random shooters to kill as many Israeli citizens as possible, regardless of whether they are civilian or military.

  15. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    You're right, the current situation isn't equal. Israel recognizes the Palestinian people's right to a state. The Palestinians don't recognize Israel as a Jewish nation. Their leaders want it all. You know what? Fuck that.

    And you can keep claiming that the area belonged to the Palestinians. They weren't even a "people" before the 50's-60's, they were simply Arabs from different countries (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc.), and the area was controlled by the British, and the Ottomans before them.
    To quote Zuheir Mohsen, leader of the as-Sa'iqa faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization, from an interview he gave to the Dutch newspaper Trouw:
    And how the hell does it even belong to Israel then? Their weren't even that many jews 70 years ago......

    And Israel does not acknowledge the the right for a Palestinian state, actions speak louder then words especially if you look at Israel actions at the West Bank and East Jerusalem where the government removes Palestinian from their homes.

  16. #976
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Israel never wanted peace. It engineer s conflict as an excuse for ethnic cleansing. TBh I'm actually shocked at what I've discovered just by reading about the subject in order to take part in the debate here. It's far far worse thanmost ppeople realised.

  17. #977
    Quote Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post
    Israel never wanted peace. It engineer s conflict as an excuse for ethnic cleansing. TBh I'm actually shocked at what I've discovered just by reading about the subject in order to take part in the debate here. It's far far worse thanmost ppeople realised.
    Funny guy.

    Mod edit: Please be more constructive when posting.
    Last edited by Wikiy; 2012-11-19 at 02:48 PM.

  18. #978


    I'll just be leaving this here...

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 07:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by a77 View Post
    From the article "IDF tanks fired at terror targets in the Strip following the attack. Gaza medical sources said that four people were killed and 25 others were injured." must be fantastic tanks who only hit "terror targets"
    Don't you know? It's Israel's policy that if you aren't a Jew you're a terrorist. NO EXCEPTIONS.

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post


    I'll just be leaving this here...
    Aid only begun from 1967, cheap propaganda.

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post


    I'll just be leaving this here...
    Sigh...
    First map is wrong, because what's colored as "Palestine" is mostly barren wasteland (the Negev Desert) that belongs to no one. Again, it doesn't go "what Jews owned" vs "everything else belonged to Palestinians".
    Second map is roughly correct - it was drawn up to encompass the two populations - Jewish and Arab. God knows why the Arabs felt like the Negev was worth anything to them.
    Third map is again due to Arab aggression - they attacked Israel in order to wipe it out, and lost, thus losing some of their land.
    Fourth map is absolute bogus - the PLO controls the West Bank, with IDF presence in some of the Areas (read about A, B and C areas for further information). Why is there IDF presence, you ask? Because in the Six Day War, Jordan lost control of the West Bank and Egypt of the Gaza Strip - and they never wanted them back (Israel offered).

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