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  1. #1041
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    They could try not electing terrorists and killing random civilians. Blockades are only happening because they won't let the ships be inspected for weapons, and are really being used for political purposes, rather than aid. Israel provides aid to Palestine, fyi.
    Again one of cubby's pointless post. Could you give us a plan on how a group of unarmed civilians can take out Hamas out of the picture? You condemning the Palestinians over something that they have no control over is disgusting.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 09:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoxus View Post
    And yet, no nation on Earth, not even a Muslim nation would take the Palestinians in. Israel has absorbed millions, and were willing to let the Palestinians live there too - provided they didn't have to be recognized as a separate nation - and as nomadic people, that probably shouldn't have been a big deal - but no. They (through Arafat) refused any sanctions, demanding to be either Palestine or nothing.

    Something is telling in the fact that no one wants the Palestinians except the Israelis' - too bad they burned the bridge, stole the charred remains, buried them in the sand and left them to rot.

    I hear Iraq has a lot of new openings for immigrants though. /sarcasm.
    Is it wrong to want to be recognised as a nation?

  2. #1042
    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Again one of cubby's pointless post. Could you give us a plan on how a group of unarmed civilians can take out Hamas out of the picture? You condemning the Palestinians over something that they have no control over is disgusting.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 09:20 PM ----------


    Is it wrong to want to be recognised as a nation?
    Palestine is a nation in name only - they were nomads, living in the area for generations. Different tribes that claimed a spit of land that had been wiped out by the Romans. They weren't even unified until Israel was granted by the British. It's only because no one would take them in and incorporate them that they created the PLO and began plotting the overthrow of their 'oppressors'. Arafat was really the big evil here. This is just a continuation of his pogrom. It's sad. But as was noted, those in the Middle East seem to have the longest memories regarding insults and retaliation.

  3. #1043
    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Again one of cubby's pointless post. Could you give us a plan on how a group of unarmed civilians can take out Hamas out of the picture? You condemning the Palestinians over something that they have no control over is disgusting.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 09:20 PM ----------


    Is it wrong to want to be recognised as a nation?
    In a country full of guns and rockets, I'm sure Johnny McPalestinian can conjure up some munitions.

  4. #1044
    All the racism in this thread. How is it not locked? Israel and America are the only terrorists, the other people are doing what little they can against a giant.

  5. #1045
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoxus View Post
    Palestine is a nation in name only - they were nomads, living in the area for generations. Different tribes that claimed a spit of land that had been wiped out by the Romans. They weren't even unified until Israel was granted by the British. It's only because no one would take them in and incorporate them that they created the PLO and began plotting the overthrow of their 'oppressors'.
    I think you just flawlessly described the Jewish people for the past 4000+ years right there.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  6. #1046
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoxus View Post
    Palestine is a nation in name only - they were nomads, living in the area for generations. Different tribes that claimed a spit of land that had been wiped out by the Romans. They weren't even unified until Israel was granted by the British. It's only because no one would take them in and incorporate them that they created the PLO and began plotting the overthrow of their 'oppressors'. Arafat was really the big evil here. This is just a continuation of his pogrom. It's sad. But as was noted, those in the Middle East seem to have the longest memories regarding insults and retaliation.
    Again, is it wrong to want to be recognised as a nation? yes or no?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 09:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausr View Post
    In a country full of guns and rockets, I'm sure Johnny McPalestinian can conjure up some munitions.
    Your thinking of the USA here not Palestine. Not everyone has access to a gun.

  7. #1047
    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Again, is it wrong to want to be recognised as a nation? yes or no?
    better question is if said recognition is more important than the possibility of one's children growing up in peace, and if the lack of said recognition poses a threat to one's culture or freedom

  8. #1048
    I still fail to see why people use the argument that their wasn't a Palestinian state.....

    Their wasn't a Jewish state either
    Their was however Palestinian people controlling majority of the area's (as proof that the UK didn't have to deal with any opposing groups till it was clear that the Jewish people where taking over)

    Maybe it is a European descented thing to justify the suppression and murder of natives. As far as I know natives every single country where European migrated to had to deal with stealing of land, murder and basic right restriction.

  9. #1049
    Mechagnome lupii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    better question is if said recognition is more important than the possibility of one's children growing up in peace, and if the lack of said recognition poses a threat to one's culture or freedom
    It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. If they joined through Israel, there is a high risk of assimilation and being treated like second class citizens at this point (what with the whole resistance thingy). So would they possibly loose their culture without recognition? I would say there is a valid risk.

    We have seen assimilation attempts in probably every country in the world in some way or another, at least in the form of colonization. The problem is that the Palestinians will be pinned for the actions of Hamas, the large will be pinned for the actions of the few. This is what I believe will happen.

  10. #1050
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Again, is it wrong to want to be recognised as a nation? yes or no?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 09:46 PM ----------


    Your thinking of the USA here not Palestine. Not everyone has access to a gun.
    In the middle east they are plentiful and cheap, they hold outdoor weapons markets where you can buy anything barring nukes.

  11. #1051
    Legendary! Tierbook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    All the racism in this thread. How is it not locked? Israel and America are the only terrorists, the other people are doing what little they can against a giant.
    Defending your nation against terrorists makes you a terrorist no wonder the world is so screwed up today

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 05:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    In the middle east they are plentiful and cheap, they hold outdoor weapons markets where you can buy anything barring nukes.
    and i imagine its a bit easier to get those weapons that are available to them
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

  12. #1052
    Scarab Lord cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Again one of cubby's pointless post. Could you give us a plan on how a group of unarmed civilians can take out Hamas out of the picture? You condemning the Palestinians over something that they have no control over is disgusting.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 09:20 PM ----------


    Is it wrong to want to be recognised as a nation?
    Love the personal attacks, I'll gladly take the high road here. What you fail to realize is that many nations want to see a two-state solution, but the terrorist leaders of Palestine can't afford to have peace, so they keep pulling this crap over and over again.

    If they really wanted peace for their people, why aren't they at the negotiating table instead of lobbing rockets at random civilians. Hammas isn't even targeting specific installations, are they? Just a country trying to live in peace.

    To be recognized as a nation, one must first act like one.
    The less you know, the more you believe.


    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hate, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

  13. #1053
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    Defending your nation against terrorists makes you a terrorist no wonder the world is so screwed up today

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 05:07 PM ----------



    and i imagine its a bit easier to get those weapons that are available to them
    You can buy an AK47 out there for as little as $6 US, gives an idea how cheap things are. Grendaes, RPGs, even anti aircraft weapons can be had for much less than the price of a modern smart phone.

  14. #1054
    Quote Originally Posted by lupii View Post
    It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. If they joined through Israel, there is a high risk of assimilation and being treated like second class citizens at this point (what with the whole resistance thingy). So would they possibly loose their culture without recognition? I would say there is a valid risk.

    We have seen assimilation attempts in probably every country in the world in some way or another, at least in the form of colonization. The problem is that the Palestinians will be pinned for the actions of Hamas, the large will be pinned for the actions of the few. This is what I believe will happen.
    Current Arab-Israeli citizens aren't second class citizens (in fact, some might say they're slightly above everyone else due to affirmative action), so I really don't see why the Palestinians would have been any different.

    Also, I wish Hamas were few, but sadly their numbers are pretty decent. Not to mention all the other militias (Islamic Palestinian Jihad, the different Resistance Committees and a few minor ones).

  15. #1055
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Maybe it is a European descented thing to justify the suppression and murder of natives. As far as I know natives every single country where European migrated to had to deal with stealing of land, murder and basic right restriction.
    That is the history of the world, not just Europeans.

  16. #1056
    Mechagnome lupii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Love the personal attacks, I'll gladly take the high road here. What you fail to realize is that many nations want to see a two-state solution, but the terrorist leaders of Palestine can't afford to have peace, so they keep pulling this crap over and over again.

    If they really wanted peace for their people, why aren't they at the negotiating table instead of lobbing rockets at random civilians. Hammas isn't even targeting specific installations, are they? Just a country trying to live in peace.

    To be recognized as a nation, one must first act like one.
    On the other hand, Israel has not been doing their part in making peace. The blockade that has been strangling the Palestinians for years, the assassinations that have been going on that started the roll for this current round of violence. I think your, albeit excellent point, applies to both sides, not just Hamas. Israel, in terms of a land issue, would not want them to be a nation. From a joint-state idea, would you want some guys that you used to want out partnering with you in government matters?

    This issue is larger than what we see, sadly. I do not think that a solution is simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Current Arab-Israeli citizens aren't second class citizens (in fact, some might say they're slightly above everyone else due to affirmative action), so I really don't see why the Palestinians would have been any different.

    Also, I wish Hamas were few, but sadly their numbers are pretty decent. Not to mention all the other militias (Islamic Palestinian Jihad, the different Resistance Committees and a few minor ones).
    Given the restrictions and actions by Israel, it doesn't surprise me that they have a strong military base. Don't like how Israel is treating you? Join Hamas today!

    The only reason I think this is because of how I think, from what I know, what would happen if they were placed into Israel society. I think their history would lead to discrimination against them, if not politically then socially. That would push them to a lower class.
    Last edited by lupii; 2012-11-19 at 10:15 PM.

  17. #1057
    Quote Originally Posted by lupii View Post
    So would they possibly loose their culture without recognition? I would say there is a valid risk.
    i may be a naive optimist, but imo they have the potential to be stronger together than either ever could be apart. but i might be the only person on the face of the planet that thinks that, lol

  18. #1058
    Mechagnome lupii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    i may be a naive optimist, but imo they have the potential to be stronger together than either ever could be apart. but i might be the only person on the face of the planet that thinks that, lol
    I hope that by some miracle that your optimism proves to be true.

  19. #1059
    Quote Originally Posted by lupii View Post
    Historically, Christianity was the big problem. What, with it's 10+ crusades under the church, attacking Judaism and Islam.

    Now, up to the conflicts with Israel and the Gaza strip, I do not know of any war started in the name of Judaism. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Islam is the really interesting thing because it is probably the most peaceful in nature of the religions. it is the leaders that propagate these wars and label it religion as a reason. But that is like anything. For example, Al-Qaeda practice a corrupted variant of Islam to meet their needs, where they are taught to sacrifice themselves, etc.
    The Israeli regime is Zionist, Zionism is an almost extreme form of nationalism. It is the reason they have started so many wars in the Middle East.
    Zionism is a disgusting, and very dangerous thing, and it gives Judaism a very bad name.

    I was once told by a Jewish guy I know:

    Jews teach their children that the Jewish people were chosen by god to spread his word (not implying that they are racially superior in any way), since they were the first godly religion at that time and they were successful; both Islam and Christianity branched off from Judaism.

    Zionists teach their children that they are the chosen people because they were chosen by god and they’re better than anyone else.
    Last edited by The North Remembers; 2012-11-19 at 10:25 PM.
    Night gathers, and now my watch begins.


  20. #1060
    Mechagnome lupii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The North Remembers View Post
    The Israeli regime is Zionist, Zionism is an almost extreme form of nationalism. It is the reason they have started so many wars in the Middle East.
    Zionism is a disgusting, and very dangerous thing, and it gives Judaism a very bad name.

    I was once told by a Jewish guy I know:

    Jews teach their children that the Jewish people were chosen by god to spread his word (not implying that they are racially superior in any way), since they were the first godly religion at that time and they were successful; both Islam and Christianity branched off from Judaism.

    Zionists teach their children that they are the chosen people because they were chosen by god and they’re better than anyone else.
    SO thats what they mean when they speak of Zionism...Okay. I thank you for that insight.

    That explains the actions of Israel a little bit.

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