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  1. #1541
    I don't think anyone is claiming there isn't enough food in Gaza, do they?
    I don't think even Hamas is claiming that.

  2. #1542
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeDayKeen View Post
    I don't think anyone is claiming there isn't enough food in Gaza, do they?
    International help organizations do point out that there isn't enough food.
    Yet with the poverty rate, it's probably more the case that people cannot afford proper nutrition.

  3. #1543
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Both are israeli sources, and can easily be dismissed as false and rather suspected propaganda.
    Haaretz is one of the most anti-Israel newspapers in existence, so I doubt they'd go to any lengths to paint Israel in a positive light.

  4. #1544
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Haaretz is one of the most anti-Israel newspapers in existence, so I doubt they'd go to any lengths to paint Israel in a positive light.
    Is that so?

    A 2003 study in The Harvard International Journal of Press/Politics found that Haaretz reporting was more favorable to Israelis than Palestinians and more likely to report stories from the Israeli side
    (Source: Matt Viser. Attempted objectivity: An analysis of the New York Times and Ha'aretz and their portrayals of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The Harvard International Journal of Press/Politics. 2003, Vol. 8, No. 4, 114–120. )

    -If that's the definition of an "anti-Israel" newspaper, then I wonder what you would call a paper reporting with a Palestinian bias.
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  5. #1545
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Is that so?

    (Source: Matt Viser. Attempted objectivity: An analysis of the New York Times and Ha'aretz and their portrayals of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The Harvard International Journal of Press/Politics. 2003, Vol. 8, No. 4, 114–120. )

    -If that's the definition of an "anti-Israel" newspaper, then I wonder what you would call a paper reporting with a Palestinian bias.
    I won't criticize the analysis, but as an Israeli living in Israel and seeing most issues that Haaretz releases, it's my opinion (and many others in Israel) that it's an incredibly anti-Israel paper.

  6. #1546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    I won't criticize the analysis, but as an Israeli living in Israel and seeing most issues that Haaretz releases, it's my opinion (and many others in Israel) that it's an incredibly anti-Israel paper.
    From what I found, I disregard haaretz altogether.
    I refered to them as israeli source, since they have an israeli domain. News found from them look to me as a hunt for sensationalism. One can find pro and con Israel. In both cases it usually screams lust for sensation. And the spark of truth would have to be found through more investigation.

  7. #1547
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    International help organizations do point out that there isn't enough food.
    Yet with the poverty rate, it's probably more the case that people cannot afford proper nutrition.
    I'm not quite sure of that either, IIRC, back in 2000 or so there was a problem with UNWRA reserves being depleted, but I think it got handled back then.
    I don't think the problem is hunger so much, as in getting the correct nutrition, something which would be obvious as the population depends on International Aid, also would explain obesity. I think if people would starve there we would've heard a lot more about it.

    Oh, though I do agree that the rich people there (mostly Hamas affiliated folks) can afford better food, because all kind of supplies get smuggled in, but I reckon it's more expensive that the stuff the Aid organizations hand out. But I say that based on logic.

  8. #1548
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    One thing about this whole debate I'd like an answer to is wtf is up with Egypt. Egypt controls the southern border, but they don't send any aids nor do they open the border.

    I mean Israel is closing the borders because they are getting missiles fired at them and the reason they won't let anyone is the same reason the airports in your country have metal detectors.

    I'm perhaps suggesting that it might be slightly unfair to blame Israel here. Especially since Hamas have said they want to drive the jews into the sea. It's not about Palestine, it's about jews - and it looks to me like Egypt wants to keep the blood boiling. Just thought I'd clear that up.

    Oh, btw, a recent study has shown that Palestinians are some of the most overweight people in the world. I wonder, what with all the suffering, how that happened.
    The entire economy of Gaza is depended on foreign aid since they don't have the equipment or materials to rebuilt (destroyed harbour, airport, power-plant, roads), I think the unemployment rate is something like 50%. So half the grown population can't work (because their is no economy since the last war) but they do get foreign aid so they find food. But if all you can do during the day is eat and sleep chances are you will most likley gain allot of weight since you aren't doing anything during the day.

    Also the major reason why the economy of Gaza is in shambles is because of 2 major things. First is the blockade that Israel placed after hamas gained control over Gaza and second the war that occurred a few years ago. During the war Israel destroyed key area's (airports, powerplant, still under construction port) and as far as I know people in gaza never really managed to recover since they didn't have the materials needed to rebuild.

    Also the reason why Egypt is assisting Israel right now is the same reason why it has always. Egypt is getting money from the US and right now the Egyptian government can't afford (the whole revolution thing did hurt them financially ) angering the US will probably stop the foreign aid.

  9. #1549
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    I won't criticize the analysis, but as an Israeli living in Israel and seeing most issues that Haaretz releases, it's my opinion (and many others in Israel) that it's an incredibly anti-Israel paper.
    Then perhaps there might exist the possibility of you being biased in the matter? Regardless, I maintain that newspaper that favour israeli viewpoints over others cannot possiblybe refered to as "anti-israel".
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  10. #1550
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeDayKeen View Post
    I'm not quite sure of that either, IIRC, back in 2000 or so there was a problem with UNWRA reserves being depleted, but I think it got handled back then.
    I don't think the problem is hunger so much, as in getting the correct nutrition, something which would be obvious as the population depends on International Aid, also would explain obesity. I think if people would starve there we would've heard a lot more about it.

    Oh, though I do agree that the rich people there (mostly Hamas affiliated folks) can afford better food, because all kind of supplies get smuggled in, but I reckon it's more expensive that the stuff the Aid organizations hand out. But I say that based on logic.
    Here's what I found... Most recent...
    Source United Nations.

    i quote:
    Meanwhile, the UN World Food Programme (WFP) was scheduled to begin food distributions for more than 30,000 people to prevent the conflict from deepening hunger in Gaza, which is already a food-insecure area.
    http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.as...=#.ULD9XIaC-ks

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-24 at 11:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Then perhaps there might exist the possibility of you being biased in the matter? Regardless, I maintain that newspaper that favour israeli viewpoints over others cannot possiblybe refered to as "anti-israel".
    As an Israeli living in Israel, of course Liara is biased. Who wouldn't, given the situation he lives in?
    But I can assure you that you can reason with him. He tries to be fair, if you show the same fairness in return.

  11. #1551
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    As an Israeli living in Israel, of course Liara is biased. Who wouldn't, given the situation he lives in?
    But I can assure you that you can reason with him. He tries to be fair, if you show the same fairness in return.
    Thanks, I appreciate that

  12. #1552
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liara View Post
    Thanks, I appreciate that
    anytime.

    We are on MMOC.. we are not, not should we be an extention of the war front and zone.
    I believe we, the rather neutral and directly un-effected people should be happy for every first hand experience contribution.
    It's easy for us to judge and prejudge. The bullets don't fly around our heads.
    We are safe and many of us were rather worried about the steal they can make on black friday, or to get a turkey leg..

    I love reading accounts from both sides. It helps me to find a middle ground.
    Last edited by Wildtree; 2012-11-24 at 05:40 PM.

  13. #1553
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    anytime.

    We are on MMOC.. we are not, not should we be an extention of the war front and zone.
    I believe we, the rather neutral and directly un-effected people should be happy for every first hand experience contribution.
    It's easy for us to judge and prejudge. The bullets don't fly around our heads.
    We are safe and many of us were rather worried about the steal they can make on black friday, or to get a turkey leg..

    I love reading accounts from both sides. It helps me to find a middle ground.
    I'm Israeli as well, I actually live very close to the border, and let me tell you: getting rockets thrown at your house is not fun.
    I am also not under the illusion that everyone on the other side is a terrorist, and I don't condone any sort of harm directly aimed at civilians.
    Despite what people around the world might think, we are not monsters, I only want to live in peace at the land I consider my home- and even though I understand the other side can not accept me being here, I can't get up and leave. I won't. This is my home, I have no other.
    What I would like to see is peace, to coexist with our neighours and maybe even be friends, but if that is not an option I would settle at not being under constant rocket and bombing threats. I hope people on the other side will accept that to.
    What I do fear though, is that Hamas can't accept my presence here, and that's a huge issue.
    Well, I hope things will be better.
    Also, if you read back in this thread you see a huge amount of unbased hatred, even going as far as claiming Jews are happy the Holocaust happens, that is an awful notion, that just shows how little people understand and how much hate they are fed- these things disturb me even more, because I can understand why Hamas would hate me, but that people who are completly unattached to the situation on a personnal level would think those things... I can't understand it.

  14. #1554
    JeDayKeen it must be terrible to have rockets aimed at your house, but what is your stand about collective punishment? do you think that make people listen less to fundamentalists?

    If you know why Hamas would hate you, now why are the Israel government taking every opportunity to give Hamas a excuse to hate? Wildtree and I have taken up the similarity to the Palestinian and Ireland conflict, and I can only note that government of Israel are doing the opposite to what the British government did to end the conflict.

  15. #1555
    Quote Originally Posted by a77 View Post
    JeDayKeen it must be terrible to have rockets aimed at your house, but what is your stand about collective punishment? do you think that make people listen less to fundamentalists?

    If you know why Hamas would hate you, now why are the Israel government taking every opportunity to give Hamas a excuse to hate? Wildtree and I have taken up the similarity to the Palestinian and Ireland conflict, and I can only note that government of Israel are doing the opposite to what the British government did to end the conflict.
    I am ashamed to say I don't know much about the Irish\British conflict, but I reckon, as we are talking about very diffrent cultures (Mid east vs. UK) that the same method might now work.
    What I think, and note I am not a great politician, that could help better the situation is improving the economic status in the Strip, but it's easier said then done... Also, I think improving personal freedom in the Strip (forming a real democracy, freedom of speech and religion) will greatly benefit the process. I think Israel is missing a golden chance in the West Bank just because the situation there is getting so much better, the ground is right for fruitful peace talks (Gaza, not so much...).

    And I am against collective punishment, obviously. I think if a closure is imposed on the Strip against the import of guns and weapon parts, it should focus on that (and I think this is where the situation is headed, there are already all sort of changes in the system since the fighting stopped).

  16. #1556
    Quote Originally Posted by svenforkbeard View Post
    If you keep poking a bear with a stick, don't get all whiny when it turns around and uses what it has at its disposal.

    I cant believe someone is justifying Hamas actions by saying the effect is negligible.[COLOR="red"]
    When the bear (israel in your analogy) constantly kills Palestinians by bulldozing them in their homes to make settlements, the rather oblivious and underarmed person is going to use whatever is in his disposal to get the attention of the bear to stop doing that thing.

    I butchered that analogy but my point makes sense lol.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2012-11-24 at 07:35 PM.
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  17. #1557
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    They atleast let investigators in, while Israel still doesn't let the IAEA even to their country for proper check-up.
    Considering Israel is higher up in the pecking order when it comes to nuclear technology in the eyes of the UN, and they aren't led by a psychotic terrorists like the freaks in Iran, Syria and Pakistan, the need for investigations is irrelevant since they are far less likely to use them to exterminate a whole country full of people rather then Al Asaad and whatnot. The big difference is that Israel has no intention of wiping another race off the map, unlike Iran and Syria which would love nothing more then to eliminate Israel from existence.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-24 at 02:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Martoshi View Post
    You're saying this as if it somehow justifies locking up and walling in a whole nation in refugee camps. It doesn't.



    Israeli politicians, including a deputy prime minister and the minister of interior has stated that it is the precise intention of Israel to do just that, it's also completely in line with the facts on the ground.
    It seemed pretty acceptable for Germany to do it for quite some times before anyone did anything.

  18. #1558
    The Middle East has caused enough problems for the past 2000 years. If they didn't have oil under that desert, I couldn't see why any rational country would fund that area of the world. Once all the oil is drilled from the sand, I hope all those animals in the Middle East wipe themselves out and do the rest of the world a favor for waisting recourses trying to police them
    Last edited by One-Eyed Jack; 2012-11-24 at 10:20 PM.

  19. #1559
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Considering Israel is higher up in the pecking order when it comes to nuclear technology in the eyes of the UN, and they aren't led by a psychotic terrorists like the freaks in Iran, Syria and Pakistan, the need for investigations is irrelevant since they are far less likely to use them to exterminate a whole country full of people rather then Al Asaad and whatnot.
    Oh, yeah, sure, Iran, Syria and Pakistan (Pakistan already has nukes, mind you) would love nothing more than to use their nukes and in return assure they themselves are getting nuked. If any of those countries nuked anyone, it would be identical to detonating the same nukes in their own countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    The big difference is that Israel has no intention of wiping another race off the map, unlike Iran and Syria which would love nothing more then to eliminate Israel from existence.
    About Israel not wanting to wiping another race off the map, well, you're just wrong because Israeli politicians have already said they'd like to destroy the Palestinians. Sure, those are just extremists. That only means, though, that Iran, Syria and Pakistan have more extremists.

    Also, no politician (including the Iranian president) from those 3 countries has ever said they wanted to wipe Israel off the map. I love how you're basing your entire argument on an American media (which is hugely biased and non-objective) report where the Iranian president supposedly said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map, which was actually later established to have been a mistranslation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    It seemed pretty acceptable for Germany to do it for quite some times before anyone did anything.
    Except we aren't living in mid-20th century, or are we? What's the point of that post anyways? What the hell does Nazi Germany have to do with the current Gaza situation?
    Last edited by Wikiy; 2012-11-25 at 02:07 AM.

  20. #1560
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    It seemed pretty acceptable for Germany to do it for quite some times before anyone did anything.
    What happened to Germany afterwards?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 01:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by One-Eyed Jack View Post
    The Middle East has caused enough problems for the past 2000 years. If they didn't have oil under that desert, I couldn't see why any rational country would fund that area of the world. Once all the oil is drilled from the sand, I hope all those animals in the Middle East wipe themselves out and do the rest of the world a favor for waisting recourses trying to police them
    You know that during the dark ages which happen to be in your "past 2000 years", the Middle East was the "Roman Empire" of that era right?

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