Perfectly aware of that. But It's not only a matter of supplying weapons. Who doesn't. The west was arming rebels in Libya.
Israel and the USA share something else. Full unconditioned ONE WAY ONLY support that allows them to do as they please.
I wonder what's to gain for the USA with this.
Surely not money or international support.
Which country was here before Israel, again?
The British mandate. And before that, only empires.
Fact is, the Arabs of the region (note, Arabs, not Palestinians, because that term didn't exist until the 70's or so) declined the two state partition plan, and instead decided to launch an attack on the Jews living in the area once Israel was voted to be a country. Then 5 more countries joined (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq) the attack the day after the founding of Israel, all in an attempt to wipe Israel out and take the entire area for themselves.
And they lost.
As far as I can tell, we don't gain anything. But the Israelis are our brothers. In a world that hates us unconditionally, we have to keep our few friends powerful. Even if that means occasionally looking the other way...
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that what we do is any better than Russia or China or anyone else. But let's not pretend that breaking the rules is something exclusive to the US and Israel.
Which country has sponsored this form of cultural genocide and state sponsored terrorism for decades though? And I mean billions and billions of dollars sent along with military equipment and espionage information.
This isn't just "selling them weapons," as loathesome as that is. The American government has vetoed any attempt by other First World countries to get Israel to stop massacring innocent people for having the audacity of fighting back when they are occupied.
In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
Man you just don't get it. This is not a matter of comparison.
Who cares about Russia, china, India whatever.
We're talking about how Israel is bombing civil targets supported by the USA.
Also, you said Israelis are our brothers. Why? Who said that? Why should the support to Israel be UNCONDITIONED especially when the economic situation isn't really bright? This is a twisted unhealthy relationship from which the USA has nothing but to lose from. In international relations, economically, you name it.
Russia might have supported criminals of wars but that is NOT a justification for any other country to do the same. ESPECIALLY for a country that puts itself as the centre of democracy, justice and freedom.
Sorry but that is just ridiculous.
If by surgical strike you mean shelling a civil building with civils inside cause it hides terrorist then it's not surgical but butchery.
Also there is plenty of examples of civil targeting during operation "cast lead" including the bombing of a school with un representatives inside. Plenty of usage of Cluster bombs in Lebanon.
It's only what 5 years ago not 60 man.
And it's not only limited to weapon usage. Some of the goods that aren't allowed in are just plain ridiculous. Milk for babies, cement.
You don't answer to rockets with rockets. And Israel, the richest and more advanced country in the area should lead the example, not being the first one to retaliate heavily.
"Day in day out" = exaggeration to prove someone's point. unhealthy to the debate. the number of casualties in 40 years of rocket launching is minimal. could easily be countered by taking a different approach AND does not justify such heavy retaliation. I'm talking facts here.
Also, how about coming up with another option rather then bombing them all?
It's not like its working anyway.
Unless you want to kill them all, in which case I am right talking about genocide.
And it's also pointless.
Provide a better option, I beg you. We already implemented Iron Dome. But it's obviously not enough.
So unless you have something better, the only two options are 1) sit by and do nothing while being bombarded constantly (and yes, it's constant), or 2) take out the launcher squads in order to deter others from doing it (or at least reduce the number of squads).
Nobody said it was easy.
The movement of Hamas into politics was a massive step towards the right path. As I said before that is exactly what happened in Northern Ireland and after a few years of struggle the resul is this. peace in the north. Sinn Fein is now a normal political party that refuses violence as an answer, shook hands with the queen and all that jazz.
No it's not constant, stop saying that please.
What Israel need to do is suck it up (have to pay for your mistakes), lift the blockade, show that a 2 country solution is possible (not really going anywhere with how things are now), help the switch of forces into politics, let proper elections happen, monitoring them without interfering, and deal with it in a civil way.
All this while constantly defend its territory.
Yes it won't be easy, and yes it'll take a while. But that's the only way for peace to be there.
They nearly had it with the elections, but they had to go and ruin it.
Gotta start from scratch now.
I'm sorry, do you live here that you keep claiming that?
And what you're basically saying is that Israel should suffer massive attacks in order to show its willingness for peace. Brilliant solution...
The instant that security regulations are lifted, we'll be back in the 2002 era, where getting on the bus was a huge life risk. I didn't enjoy that time (and even less so did the people who died), so no thank you.
Israel is a lot of things, but they won the three day war. To the victor goes the spoils. Such is life.
This is the only solution. And this is the only way of achieving it politically. The more you oppress them, the more you'll struggle when the time to do the right thing will come. And it will come. Shutting someone down completely doesnt fix the problem. Yes you will be in trouble. And so would be the Palestinians. But from that point you can move forward. As it is now, you just can't.
What's required is a massive amount of effort from both sides.
But it does happen. It happened in Northern Ireland which was even worse.
Hold on....
You're not really suggesting total extermination is the right solution are you?
Last edited by mmocea043e1e13; 2012-11-13 at 11:47 AM.
No state can abdicate from protecting its population, which is what you are suggesting. Tell you what, go look up the number of rockets fired monthly before operation Cast lead and after it. Those numbers are fairly self-explanatory.
And no, even in its darkest periods, NI did not come even close to the second intifada levels of violence.
What are you talking about? Sinn Fein has always been a "normal" political party, since its founding in 1906. The Provisional IRA, the group responsible for much of the violence related to Northern Ireland was created with help from elements of Sinn Fein in the late 1960. The reason the IRA stopped killing people is because the British government, various Irish Republican groups, and the Irish government were beginning multiparty talks that Sinn Fein was barred from thanks to their association with the IRA. Sinn Fein was to forced to rein the IRA in or face a loss of political relevance in the new emerging order. If Israel and the Palestinians are to follow the Irish model, then Israel should reach out to other Palestinian stakeholders and attempt to marginalize Hamas politically.
When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!