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  1. #461
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    Wonder if they send the ground troops this to escalate things with iran and become a bigger war
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20351553

  2. #462
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    I don't see Iran trying to get involved. They'll huff and puff quite a bit, but I don't think they want to take on Israel. It would only weaken their position further with NATO and possibly bring the hostilities straight to their doorstep for little gain, since it's questionable they could take Israel to begin with.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I don't see Iran trying to get involved. They'll huff and puff quite a bit, but I don't think they want to take on Israel. It would only weaken their position further with NATO and possibly bring the hostilities straight to their doorstep for little gain, since it's questionable they could take Israel to begin with.
    Which is why Iran wants Nuclear Weapons. They, like Isreal, are pretty much surrounded by hostile nations on all sides, by virtue of being different. Unlike Isreal, Iran isn't backed by a much larger country that funnels massive amounts of up to date tech and weaponry into them to use them as a stalking horse.

    Now, I don't support, at all, the proliferation of nuclear weapons, but I understand Irans' reasoning. Meanwhile, I completely understand why Isreal has taken such a hardline stance about everything. Invaded before you were founded? Check. Invaded after you were founded? Check. Religious differences with neighboring nations? Check. Have a massive amount of your population flee the invasion force who is there to 'help' them, then have those same people demand you grant them land? Check.

    That isn't to say Isreal hasn't done some obscene things, but acting like one side or the other is blameless is a joke. Acting like you can't understand why Isreal is the highly military country it is is also a joke.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by dannypoos View Post
    Wonder if they send the ground troops this to escalate things with iran and become a bigger war
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20351553
    I really do hope Israel goes in and ends it. I would drink to that, getting pretty sick of Palestine.

    However, like you say, it would be a good opportunity for Iran to take action. I wouldn't be THAT worried about what Iran could inflict on Israel, but still, it's unwanted war nonetheless.

  5. #465
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Respectfully, Bakis, indiscriminate is the rockets coming FROM Gaza... as has been said before... if Israeli citizens are legitimate targets then you have to agree that civilian areas in Gaza are legitimate... if one isn't legit, then neither are.
    No, that's really silly. You have invaders and the invaded. The invaded have every right to fight back against a superior power. The invader has no moral ground to stand on.

    It's like the French resistance; they kicked arse and helped win the war. If German citizens died, then they died. The Germans were the invaders who seized their land.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    No, that's really silly. You have invaders and the invaded. The invaded have every right to fight back against a superior power. The invader has no moral ground to stand on.

    It's like the French resistance; they kicked arse and helped win the war. If German citizens died, then they died. The Germans were the invaders who seized their land.
    What? So the invaded are always morally obliged to fight back? How about considering the reasons they were invaded for... Understand that and you will understand why Israel needs to get in there and kick some ass.

  7. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    What? So the invaded are always morally obliged to fight back? How about considering the reasons they were invaded for... Understand that and you will understand why Israel needs to get in there and kick some ass.
    For wanting to own the land they own?

    Jolly good. Primary rule is satisfied.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    For wanting to own the land they own?

    Jolly good. Primary rule is satisfied.
    Guess you haven't heard of the six day war?

  9. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    Guess you haven't heard of the six day war?
    Guess you haven't heard about the two state partition set up by the UN that was fundamentally unfair that kicked it off?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Guess you haven't heard about the two state partition set up by the UN that was fundamentally unfair that kicked it off?
    How was in fundamentally unfair?

  11. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    How was in fundamentally unfair?
    The mandate was divided up unfairly. Palestinians owned 93% of the land, zionists 7%. Israel was given far more land disproportionately to what they actually owned.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    The mandate was divided up unfairly. Palestinians owned 93% of the land, zionists 7%. Israel was given far more land disproportionately to what they actually owned.
    Well since it was actually owned by Britain, I kind of think that they could split up up how they want between Palestinians and Jews. I find it funny that you have you say zionists instead of Jews. Your racism is shining through.

  13. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Well since it was actually owned by Britain, I kind of think that they could split up up how they want between Palestinians and Jews. I find it funny that you have you say zionists instead of Jews. Your racism is shining through.
    No, it was ruled by Britain. The actual land was owned by Palestinians.

    And I say zionists because the Jewish people who emigrated to Palestine in the hopes of creating an Israeli state were... zionists.

    It's not strictly accurate - or at least intellectually weaker - to call them "Jews," just like "Germans" or "English." Zionism expresses a particular philosophy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

    Edit to say: plenty of Jews hated and continue to hate zionism and consider it against Judaism, which is why it's more racist to conflate them than not.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    No, it was ruled by Britain. The actual land was owned by Palestinians.

    And I say zionists because the Jewish people who emigrated to Palestine in the hopes of creating an Israeli state were... zionists.

    It's not strictly accurate - or at least intellectually weaker - to call them "Jews," just like "Germans" or "English." Zionism expresses a particular philosophy.
    /yawn. Sure it was. Britian had control over the area at the end of WW2, said to the newly formed UN that they are going to cede control of it and it might be a good place to try and help the displaced jewish community.

  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    /yawn. Sure it was. Britian had control over the area at the end of WW2, said to the newly formed UN that they are going to cede control of it and it might be a good place to try and help the displaced jewish community.
    All good and nice ideas. To do it the UN stole land from Palestine - these statistics of ownership are well-documented. Are you implying post Revolutionary War in the USA that nobody actually owned land and it was a bloodthirsty free-for-all?

    Palestinians owned the land that was stolen from them. Not hard to grasp.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  16. #476
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    It have been a shaky ceasefire but both side have ignored incidents, its not like people are like a hive mind, the head do not know that the tail do. Now just right before the Israeli election, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu choose to steep up the heat several magnitudes, and is "rewarded" by Hamas to declare open war, a statement who suit him perfect to use as a club in the election.

    This latest escalation is only a unscrupulously move to win a election, the question is whether the voters can see through it, or is swept away by nationalism/bloodlust.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    All good and nice ideas. To do it the UN stole land from Palestine - these statistics of ownership are well-documented. Are you implying post Revolutionary War in the USA that nobody actually owned land and it was a bloodthirsty free-for-all?

    Palestinians owned the land that was stolen from them. Not hard to grasp.
    Well yes, anyone who supported the British lost their land. Just like after the civil war a lot of southern gentry lost a lot of land as reparations.

    As far as I understand, Palestinians in the land set aside for Isreal kept their land but would have the Isreal government as their Government. Most of them fled the 'saving army' or fought against the Jews. You lose your land when you fight against the government.

  18. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Well yes, anyone who supported the British lost their land. Just like after the civil war a lot of southern gentry lost a lot of land as reparations.
    No they didn't and no they didn't. And these are after wars; the issues of ownership were not in doubt but transferrence.

    The point is Palestine did nothing wrong and legally owned the land and it was stolen from them by the UN's idea that, funnily, Israel supported because, hey! Free land for nothing!

    What a disgusting state.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  19. #479
    heh. Ignore what you don't like because it just doesn't exist, eh?

  20. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    heh. Ignore what you don't like because it just doesn't exist, eh?
    Hey, if that's your philosophy, it's working extremely well for you!
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

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