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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post
    Spoiler: You're both right. (in that you both can collect evidence and scripture that support your perspective. Saying that there's no whiff of genocide or intolerance in the Bible only means you haven't read it.)

    Justification for slavery and war for you, support for tolerance and enlightened attitudes toward the poor for you. Everyone's happy. Of course you don't have to be a member of one of the Abrahamic religions to consider your ingroup intrinsically superior to another, the chosen people, it was pretty damn important to humans thousands of years ago, and we haven't entirely grown out of it.
    Well said. The converse is also true: Meaning that saying that there's evidence of genocide or intolerance in the Qur'an only means you haven't read it.).

    TL,DR: We should drop the hate for each other.

  2. #502
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    The mandate was divided up unfairly. Palestinians owned 93% of the land, zionists 7%. Israel was given far more land disproportionately to what they actually owned.
    Tell us something.. you say the land belongs to the Palestinians... prove which land, when it was acquired, and from who.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  3. #503
    Brewmaster ThatCanadianGuy's Avatar
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    Hey look! American tax dollars at work! -_-

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by ttak82 View Post
    Well said. The converse is also true: Meaning that saying that there's evidence of genocide or intolerance in the Qur'an only means you haven't read it.).

    TL,DR: We should drop the hate for each other.
    Really? Do you know what Banu Qurayza is? Or the related Genocide? Kind of important to Islam since it involves the prophet Muhammad.

  5. #505
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    Are you assuming that every Arab who's complained about their land being taken doesn't have the deed to their property? In some cases, I'm sure that assumption would hold true, but in a great number of cases, the Arabs do in fact have the deeds, just they are ignored, or some law is written specifically targeting the Palestinians to give the government or settlers permission to take it. Here's a recent story about development in East Jerusalem.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I said that each one held up as a virtuous man someone who murdered and destroyed other peoples just because they didn't believe in the same god as them. I didn't say the overarching philosophy embraced genocide, nor do I think religion actually makes people genocidal.
    And I said that this is a misconception. It is just that philosophy is tied to both belief (as outlined in scriptures) and actions based on such beliefs. So to associate scriptures with anything (say, idolization of murdering people with different views) would be tantamount to saying actions are derived from the ideals taken from these scriptures (aka murdering said people). I was saying that these scriptures - and hence the religions based on these scriptures - are more about peaceful coexistence, despite the presence of individuals with conflicting viewpoints.

    Glad that this is clear.

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by ttak82 View Post
    And I said that this is a misconception. It is just that philosophy is tied to both belief (as outlined in scriptures) and actions based on such beliefs. So to associate scriptures with anything (say, idolization of murdering people with different views) would be tantamount to saying actions are derived from the ideals taken from these scriptures (aka murdering said people). I was saying that these scriptures - and hence the religions based on these scriptures - are more about peaceful coexistence, despite the presence of individuals with conflicting viewpoints.

    Glad that this is clear.
    The 'One God' that these three religions revere (allah/jehovah) orders his followers to kill and destroy entire cities because he has decided that his people want the land. The leaders who destroy these cities are held up and paragons of virtue in these religions.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Really? Do you know what Banu Qurayza is? Or the related Genocide? Kind of important to Islam since it involves the prophet Muhammad.
    I am aware of that tribe as well as the genocide, that you quote. Muhammad had nothing to do with the genocide of that tribe. In fact, he had proposed a peace treaty with that tribe and 2 other tribes.

    Lets keep the religious references out if this thread. I have made clear what I wanted to say and I do not want this to spiral into an argument. Thanks.

  9. #509
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    Removed USA backing of Israel and let the true balance of power emerge.

    Re-establish the pre-1967 borders, and most notably, after Syria sorts itself out give back the Golan Heights (contrary to what you may have heard, Asssad's regime and the Free Syrian Army are as bad as each other).

    Stop Apartheid in Israel, bring down the wall.

    As a final solution, all move to the USA.

  10. #510
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor Faustus View Post
    Removed USA backing of Israel and let the true balance of power emerge.

    Re-establish the pre-1967 borders, and most notably, after Syria sorts itself out give back the Golan Heights (contrary to what you may have heard, Asssad's regime and the Free Syrian Army are as bad as each other).

    Stop Apartheid in Israel, bring down the wall.

    As a final solution, all move to the USA.
    1. pre-1967 borders would have been fine... however, the arab states didn't see it that way and attacked, again, and lost. Why should the victor give a damn thing to the aggressors?

    2. the wall exists to keep cowards from mindlessly blowing themselves up while targeting Israeli citizens.... I bet if the suicide bombings and rocket attacks stopped that Israel MIGHT consider relaxing the wall.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    The 'One God' that these three religions revere (allah/jehovah) orders his followers to kill and destroy entire cities because he has decided that his people want the land. The leaders who destroy these cities are held up and paragons of virtue in these religions.
    Not true at all. And this is the stuff that spreads hate. [sigh]

  12. #512
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    Dudes with beards angry at dudes with beards blow up dudes with beards. Dudes with beards subsequently become angry with dudes with beards for blowing up dudes with beards, so they blow up dudes with beards.

    Also, something about grotty arid shitholes apparently being arbitrarily important to variant magic sky ghosts. Or something.
    Best and unbiased post in this thread, I applaud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    2. the wall exists to keep cowards from mindlessly blowing themselves up while targeting Israeli citizens.... I bet if the suicide bombings and rocket attacks stopped that Israel MIGHT consider relaxing the wall.
    There's no way this would happen. Also Israel is killing just as much civilians mindlessly as the Palestines are. In the current conflict even more.
    Last edited by mmoc68224f08ff; 2012-11-16 at 09:22 AM.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by ttak82 View Post
    Not true at all. And this is the stuff that spreads hate. [sigh]
    And here I thought we were done discussing it because you didn't want to? Knowledge is not hate.

  14. #514
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vantheus View Post
    There is no recognized state of palestine by Israel or most of the western world so they have no "their land". One day one of those homemade rockets is going to kill the wrong Israeli and Israel will finally make a nice big parking lot out of the area and end the attacks once and for all...personally i hope it's much sooner than later
    you mean after depriving them of their property, taking it from arabs and giving it to their own people, walling them in a ghetto and starving them, depriving them of supplies and medicines Israel will eventually implement a final solution? that sounds familiar..

    ofc the fact that big gas deposits have been found off the gaza coast have nothing to do with any of it. meanwhile children on both sides are killed and maimed.
    Last edited by soulcrusher; 2012-11-16 at 09:25 AM.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    And here I thought we were done discussing it because you didn't want to? Knowledge is not hate.
    Yeah, done. You're not sharing knowledge, though.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by ttak82 View Post
    Yeah, done. You're not sharing knowledge, though.
    Heh. You say two different things at once and are ok with it. Seems familiar but I just can't quite put my finger on it.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Heh. You say two different things at once and are ok with it. Seems familiar but I just can't quite put my finger on it.
    Keep trying. Best you can do.

  18. #518
    Legendary! Wikiy's Avatar
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    Again, lay off the religion talk.

  19. #519

  20. #520
    Let me ask the following question.

    How can you justify the suppression of the entire Palestinian people and not just Gaza.

    I can understand (I competently disagree with the opinion but ok) that the extremist in Israel can justify the suppression of the people in Gaza (lets just all admit it is in fact the biggest prison in the world).

    But at the same time how can you justify the suppression of the Palestinians in Israel and in the West Bank. Even if the West Bank has more to go for compared to Gaza it is still in some ways a large prison (limited movement = prison). And lets not forget to mention the demolishing of Palestinians homes and building homes for Jewish settlers.

    A few years ago I've read a article about how Palestinians in Israel got removed from their homes (some which pre-dates the state of Israel) and at the very land a park was going to be build.

    Israel creates his own enemies

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