Thread: Reforging?

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  1. #1

    Reforging?

    So, I have run many sims on my char, and every single one came out with completely different stat priority lists. I have read through the EJ threads on BM hunters (as this is currently my main spec, although I do spec into SV for some fights when needed) and it suggests that the priority is
    Agi>hit==exp (to cap)>>mastery>~crit>>haste.
    I am suprised to see mastery coming slightly above crit and was wondering if other people have found this to be a dps increase?
    Any help regarding this would be appreciated as i am currently confused as to what i should be reforging into with everywhere saying different things.


    here is my armoury link just for the hell of it
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...allen/advanced

    Pallen

  2. #2
    I don't play too much BM, but I've read a lot of BM related threads here.

    From what I understand, Mastery is the best stat for burst. Crit is the best stat for sustained. Haste highly fluctuates from shot shifting and thresholds.

    Without going too much into it, the safest bet is to go Agi > Hit = Exp > Crit > Mastery > Haste. Survival does well with this, but I see better results on my sims prioritizing Haste > Mastery.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by pallen202 View Post
    So, I have run many sims on my char, and every single one came out with completely different stat priority lists. I have read through the EJ threads on BM hunters (as this is currently my main spec, although I do spec into SV for some fights when needed) and it suggests that the priority is
    Agi>hit==exp (to cap)>>mastery>~crit>>haste.
    I am suprised to see mastery coming slightly above crit and was wondering if other people have found this to be a dps increase?
    Any help regarding this would be appreciated as i am currently confused as to what i should be reforging into with everywhere saying different things.


    here is my armoury link just for the hell of it
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...allen/advanced

    Pallen
    The on on EJ is outdated it is crit > haste/mastery.

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  4. #4
    Mechagnome Supakaiser's Avatar
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    http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/reforgelite

    Set the following:

    Hit / Exp = 200
    Crit = 180
    Mastery = 160
    Haste = 120

    for the time being (we'll see about next tier).

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Supakaiser View Post
    http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/reforgelite

    Set the following:

    Hit / Exp = 200
    Crit = 180
    Mastery = 160
    Haste = 120

    for the time being (we'll see about next tier).
    wowreforge.com > reforgelite

    Depending on the stat priority you pick (crit > haste > mastery or crit > mastery > haste) , you will just need to change the numbers in wowreforge to reflect that. I've done some testing and sometimes they may give the same results but wowreforge has always given me better stats.

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  6. #6
    Mechagnome Supakaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    wowreforge.com > reforgelite

    Depending on the stat priority you pick (crit > haste > mastery or crit > mastery > haste) , you will just need to change the numbers in wowreforge to reflect that. I've done some testing and sometimes they may give the same results but wowreforge has always given me better stats.
    I used to use WoWReforge.com but I've stopped since they were slow to adapt at the start of the xpac, plus having to log out to adjust reforges for new gear is kind of a pain during raid nights. Otherwise a nice tool.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    I don't play too much BM, but I've read a lot of BM related threads here.

    From what I understand, Mastery is the best stat for burst. Crit is the best stat for sustained. Haste highly fluctuates from shot shifting and thresholds.

    Without going too much into it, the safest bet is to go Agi > Hit = Exp > Crit > Mastery > Haste. Survival does well with this, but I see better results on my sims prioritizing Haste > Mastery.

    every where i read its telling me crrit>haste>mastery after agi/hit/exp ofc

    which i don't get as for bm our pets are the biggest source of dmg, for bm anyway

  8. #8
    Ask Mr Robot works fine also, sometimes you have to tweak something here and there, but for the most part it works by default. Plus I like how you can tweak stuff without re logging or even owning the gear.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Supakaiser View Post
    I used to use WoWReforge.com but I've stopped since they were slow to adapt at the start of the xpac, plus having to log out to adjust reforges for new gear is kind of a pain during raid nights. Otherwise a nice tool.
    A min/maxer like myself would prefer better stats, but to each his own.

    Quote Originally Posted by huntypus View Post
    Ask Mr Robot works fine also, sometimes you have to tweak something here and there, but for the most part it works by default. Plus I like how you can tweak stuff without re logging or even owning the gear.
    Mr robot doesn't reforge you optimally, I would advise against using this resource.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    A min/maxer like myself would prefer better stats, but to each his own.


    Mr robot doesn't reforge you optimally, I would advise against using this resource.
    In what respect ?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by huntypus View Post
    Ask Mr Robot works fine also, sometimes you have to tweak something here and there, but for the most part it works by default. Plus I like how you can tweak stuff without re logging or even owning the gear.
    the ask MR robot customs always seems to put haste first. which is wrong for bM

    as far as i can tell ( at least for me) its been Wowreforge> Ask Mr robot> wow reforgelite, in terms of how good they are, but i dont like relying on such tools as they are often buggy or just plain wrong.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Supakaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    A min/maxer like myself would prefer better stats, but to each his own.
    The difference in stats between ReforgeLite and WoWReforge.com is barely worth measure.

    In regards to AskMrRobot, I agree, it's not really great, at least for hunters. You can tweak it to make it decent but the defaults are really wacky when it comes to recommended enchants / gems / reforges. 99% of the time it leaves you under hit/exp cap or at least that was my experience giving it a shot early in MoP.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by huntypus View Post
    In what respect ?
    Well, not to talk about it too much as I don't want to bash them. Comparing the Op's reforges from both mr robot (forced hit and exp cap option and locked gems and enchants) and wowreforge (both reforges done with the default stat priorities) , yields a surprising difference.

    Looking at the results:

    AMR
    Crit 7154
    Haste 1857
    Mastery 2640


    Wowreforge
    Crit 7954
    Haste 1405
    Mastery 2286

    Now, look at the differences:
    crit 7154 - 7954 = -800
    haste 1857 - 1405 = 452
    mastery 2640 - 2286 = 354

    With AMR's reforges you are trading 800 crit for 806 haste/mastery which obviously is a dps loss simply because crit is valued higher than both of those stats.

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Well, not to talk about it too much as I don't want to bash them. Comparing the Op's reforges from both mr robot (forced hit and exp cap option and locked gems and enchants) and wowreforge (both reforges done with the default stat priorities) , yields a surprising difference.

    *snip*

    With AMR's reforges you are trading 800 crit for 806 haste/mastery which obviously is a dps loss simply because crit is valued higher than both of those stats.
    Thanks for the heads up, didn't know it was that different.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Supakaiser View Post
    The difference in stats between ReforgeLite and WoWReforge.com is barely worth measure.
    Maybe to you, but as a min/maxer, I'd like to get the best out of my reforges and reforgelite falls behind wowreforge in that regard. As low as the stat gain may be.

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  16. #16
    All those reforge sites give you false data; I would not trust them.
    Use simc and run plots; you will see that for BM there is nearly no difference between the stats; here are two sims for my char (385ilvl) from over the last weeks equip changes:
    BM: 1,00 Crit > 0,97 Haste > 0,93 Mastery
    BM: 1,11 Haste > 1,10 Crit > 1,02 Mastery

    For SV this looks a bit more divers: SV: 0,93 Crit > 0,73 Haste > 0,49 Mastery (this was longer ago with blue/epic equip; don't know about my current gear).
    So get your own values and put them in AMR or wowreforge.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Supakaiser View Post
    http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/reforgelite

    Set the following:

    Hit / Exp = 200
    Crit = 180
    Mastery = 160
    Haste = 120

    for the time being (we'll see about next tier).
    I've played around with both the site and that addon, they seem to yield the same results, but I've been wondering, where do you set stat weights in ReforgeLite? I've only been able to set the priority order.
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  18. #18
    My understanding (and I'm pretty new to Hunting) is that FD significantly overvalues haste. Are those numbers for SimC reliable, or are there similar issues (I know SimC runs significantly more iterations).

    I've been focusing Crit > Mastery > Haste so far.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Supakaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timoseewho View Post
    I've played around with both the site and that addon, they seem to yield the same results, but I've been wondering, where do you set stat weights in ReforgeLite? I've only been able to set the priority order.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Maybe to you, but as a min/maxer, I'd like to get the best out of my reforges and reforgelite falls behind wowreforge in that regard. As low as the stat gain may be.
    2231 (Hit) 2557 (Exp) 6555 (Crit) 2126 (Mastery) 2391 (Haste) -- ReforgeLite
    2231 (Hit) 2550 (Exp) 6684 (Crit) 2004 (Mastery) 2391 (Haste) -- WoWReforge.com

    This a difference of 129 (600 = 1%) crit rating (Roughly 0.2% crit = 0.04% gain) and 122 (600 = 1%) mastery rating (Roughly 0.2% as well = 0.04% gain). So yes, WoWReforge with the same exact stat weights seems to be a hair better, but my point was ReforgeLite's convenience outweighs that when you can't afford to relog to inconvenience a raid night.

    So in the end: ReforgeLite for convinience, WoWReforge for tightness.

    [EDIT] -- Oddly enough after making the WoWReforge changes and running ReforgeLite it didn't tell me to reforge anything. You would think since it made slightly different reforge suggestions from the start it would want to 'revert' back. Neat I guess ;O
    Last edited by Supakaiser; 2012-11-11 at 11:14 PM.

  20. #20
    I go Crit > Mastery > haste.
    the reasoning is simple. Crit lets us do more than 1% more dmg per 1% crit (meta, and go to the throat)
    whilst mastery gives 2% more petdmg per point, but the petdmg is less than 50% of our dmg, thus less valuable then crit.
    (the assumption "pet does less than 50% dmg" is not always true! in my case it is. depens on your talents. e.g. lynxrush shifts dmg towards pet, MofC to hunter etc)

    now the main reason why I dislake haste is because of Kill Command. it has a 6second CD. this and the fact that we try to use KC as soon as it comes of CD limits the benefit of haste. at current haste levels (without RF/FF/Hero) we are limited in the choice of spells we can use in between 2 KCs.
    example: 2x CS + 1 instant. or 1x CS + 3 Instants. or 5 instants, because we want to utilize the 5sec window as well as possible.
    bad example. KC, CS, AS, AS [shit no focus for KC] CS KC, because thats 6.6sec between 2 KCs. (with low haste on gear but hastebuffed)
    2x CS + 2 instants only works with high haste (+low latency -.-), ak when hasted. our own gear wont get us that high at the moment. thus, having more haste does not let you cast more in the same time. you only gain autoshots, petattacks, and an increased focusreg (thus indirectly more instants, but our autofocusgen is only a port of our reg, thus 1% haste on gear doesn't even give as 1% more focus... effect is small)

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