1. #1

    10 Raid Comp - Is 2 Boomkins bad?

    I have a question about my guild's raid comp because recently it feels like our DPS is in an extremely terrible place. I dont have any logs at the moment :P

    Right now we have:

    Tanks: Blood DK and Prot Warrior (DPS on 1 tank fights)
    Healers: Shaman (DPS as Enh on 2 heal fights), Priest, and Druid
    DPS: Ele Shaman, Lock, and 2 Boomkins

    We are currenly in need of one more DPS. It looks like we are going to have a Hunter or Rogue play with our group for a while. We were in Heroic MSV this past week and were unable to beat Feng because we did not have enough AoE on the shield phase. The Boomkins were lowest on all Feng attempts, and even in HoF the Boomkins were in the bottom 3 of damage done on Vizier and Blade Lord.

    We have asked one of the Boomkins to switch to Feral and he was very reluctant to try it, and the other flat our refuses to change spec. So I am just wondering if we will be able to progress through Heroic MSV and HoF with 2 Boomkins or do we need to shake things up?

    Just looking for some feedback or advice on our situation. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Having more then one class / spec in 10 Man is never ideal, but it isn't going to be a major disadvantage either.

    We run with a Frost Death Knight & Blood Death Knight in our group, as well as myself (Mistweaver Monk) and a Windwalker Monk. We have around 12 people in our team so we rotate, but having two of any class is not going to prevent you from getting any kills.

    In terms of Boomkins themselves, I can't really say but I've not heard anything negative about that so it is more then likely they're just not playing it right. Talk to them, be honest and find out what is going on. Boomkin AoE might not (Or might be, I don't know) be strong, but even Heroic Encounters can be overcome with these issues when you play at the maximum of your potential.

  3. #3
    So long as you've got all your raid buffs, it won't be a huge deal. The bigger deal is that apparently, your boomkins are bad at their class; not the class itself at fault, just their DPS. Get them to step up their game.

    But no, 2 of any 1 class is probably fine. 3 as well, sometimes (we used to have 3 holy paladins and a prot paladin in our raid during cataclysm, that was fun :P and yes, 10 man).

  4. #4
    Boomkins have been simming the 2nd worst out of any class/spec. You need only really look at data gathering sites, like world of logs. Most of the boomkins that "rank" in the top 100 are REALLY geared and boomkins are the most gear dependent they have ever been. AT full gear current tiers boomkins sim at 85k while most other classes sim 98-110k according to simcraft.
    I am a boomer my self we are just in a bad spot. It takes a very very talented player to really get all out of a boomkin, the rotation it self is very easy, it comes down to details for min maxing. IE when to reapply dot's, whether or not to hold a star surge proc, holding starfall if in heavy movement ect. We basically live off our CD's for dps.

  5. #5
    The Patient Lachez's Avatar
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    A raider that's unwilling to change specs for progression doesn't really belong in a progression raiding guild imo, but that's neither here nor there. SV hunters and combat rogues are pretty good on Feng with high cleave for the adds. However, if you have to do it with both boomkins, make sure they are saving personal CDs for the adds and not blowing them right away in the fight. Also make sure they each typhoon the adds back to allow more dps time on them. Boomkins aren't really in a great spot right now so it's not too surprising that they are struggling, but, that said, they will definitely excel on H-Garajal, which is quite DoT-friendly. H-Spirit Kings shouldn't be a problem with them either. It doesn't really favor any particular type of DPS as long as they all pull their weight. As long as they know how to put out some pretty good burst on the orbs, they shouldn't struggle too much on H-Elegon either or really even Will. I can't speak to HoF heroics yet, but quite a few of those bosses favor dotting on normal so it couldn't really hurt to have them.
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  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runesavan View Post
    Boomkins have been simming the 2nd worst out of any class/spec. You need only really look at data gathering sites, like world of logs. Most of the boomkins that "rank" in the top 100 are REALLY geared and boomkins are the most gear dependent they have ever been. AT full gear current tiers boomkins sim at 85k while most other classes sim 98-110k according to simcraft.
    I am a boomer my self we are just in a bad spot. It takes a very very talented player to really get all out of a boomkin, the rotation it self is very easy, it comes down to details for min maxing. IE when to reapply dot's, whether or not to hold a star surge proc, holding starfall if in heavy movement ect. We basically live off our CD's for dps.
    This is what I'm thinking as well. Boomkins are really great for encounters like Heroic Gara'jal, where a Boomkin can nuke all the adds in the Spirit realm alone or on any other boss with adds - Wind Lord comes to mind as well. But when you need max single target dps, Boomkins fall behind atm.

    The Boomkins ranking atm are either really geared, are getting prio on specific things that allows them to shine or they're multi dotting adds. I don't recall having seen a Boomkin winning on single target dps. And with 2 of them in your raid, it's going to be harder to accommodate them both and make use of their utility.

    And if you can't make use of their utility, I don't believe you can really defend having 2 of them in a 10 man group - purely because they fall behind dps wise.

  7. #7
    Biggest problem is that you have 3 players in a 10 man going after intellect leather. That's going to slow all of their gearing.

  8. #8
    You have have 4 leather/Int wearers? ACK!! DE incoming.

  9. #9
    Pandaren Monk Lora's Avatar
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    It won't kill your raid but it'll make progression longer since they are sharing the same loot. Balance is highly gear dependent as the rotation is very simple. It's all about knowing when to use cds and not, how to maximize the uptime of dots, starfall etc.
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  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Auloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinsoul View Post
    Biggest problem is that you have 3 players in a 10 man going after intellect leather. That's going to slow all of their gearing.
    Yeah, this is where you're really going to hurt.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Runesavan View Post
    Boomkins have been simming the 2nd worst out of any class/spec. You need only really look at data gathering sites, like world of logs. Most of the boomkins that "rank" in the top 100 are REALLY geared and boomkins are the most gear dependent they have ever been. AT full gear current tiers boomkins sim at 85k while most other classes sim 98-110k according to simcraft.
    I am a boomer my self we are just in a bad spot. It takes a very very talented player to really get all out of a boomkin, the rotation it self is very easy, it comes down to details for min maxing. IE when to reapply dot's, whether or not to hold a star surge proc, holding starfall if in heavy movement ect. We basically live off our CD's for dps.
    I disagree with the "2nd worst" crap that people are spouting, look at raidbots moonkins are 5th for 10man Overall
    Last edited by Drayarr; 2012-11-09 at 07:16 PM.

  12. #12
    You guys should really shake it up regardless of performance -- in the long run (assuming you get on average intellect leather a third of the time) you'll have three undergeared players for content instead of one or two satisfactory geared ones.

    Unless you want to slow down progression a lot, you'll end up falling behind in any gear checks anyway. Mixing it up for a feral would be a fantastic idea for your raid composition since you have no leather agility users, and you'd see a DPS increase regardless as ferals are performing better this tier than balance sans fight specialties.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    I disagree with the "2nd worst" crap that people are spouting, look at raidbots moonkins are 5th for 10man Overall
    Every other sim site I have used from rawr to sim craft sites support what I posted earlier. I would not hold much credence for a site thats got the "min" for more then half the classes posted at "0" this site sample is extremly small compaired to most other siming services. Belive what you want to you cant fight data.

  14. #14
    Boomkin is definetly worst dps class atm. Still tho keeping one in a raid might be usefull. Poping tranquility sometimes will make a diffrence between a wipe and kill. But having 2 of them in 1 raid will make your life harder. Its not even their fault, that spec even with powerfull gear is crap at dps.

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