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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Excluding healers for a sec (different subject in terms of power) the only caster that is doing fine (both in the past and atm) are mages.

    It may come as a shocker for some people but overall their are more non mages out their then mages.
    warlocks are doing fine, shadowpriests are hands down overpowered right now. boomkins are doing ok if they have good partners.

    the only caster thats really having trouble is elemental shamans.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  2. #22
    The Patient Wiredmana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    warlocks are doing fine, shadowpriests are hands down overpowered right now. boomkins are doing ok if they have good partners.

    the only caster thats really having trouble is elemental shamans.
    See, the majority of opinion is about the opposite of what you're saying right now...

    Elemental Shamans are ripping people apart. Destro locks are about the only thing competitive. And everything else is really, really... Bad.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Excluding healers for a sec (different subject in terms of power) the only caster that is doing fine (both in the past and atm) are mages.

    It may come as a shocker for some people but overall their are more non mages out their then mages.
    It might come as a shock to you but spriests, locks, boomkins, ele shammies are all doing well and will be doing even better when the blatantly op warriors and hunters as well as mages get their 5.1 nerfs (which honestly should be hot fixed NOW imo).
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  4. #24
    The Patient Wiredmana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot123 View Post
    Doesn't silence prevent hunters from using traps? Or at least it used to. >_>
    It's kinda like Silencing a Warrior... Complete waste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    It might come as a shock to you but spriests, locks, boomkins, ele shammies are all doing well and will be doing even better when the blatantly op warriors and hunters as well as mages get their 5.1 nerfs (which honestly should be hot fixed NOW imo).
    Better than this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBgr...s&feature=plcp

    With Avatar? It's not like Fears, Incapacitate effects, and stuns help. Nor do slows against charge, lol intercept, lol charge. Not to mention Warrior's own CC - Fears, Stuns, Disarms, Blanket Silences and interrupts.

    In case you haven't been watching the rankings lately - There's hardly a team without a Warror. Some have two!
    Last edited by Wiredmana; 2012-11-11 at 09:21 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredmana View Post
    See, the majority of opinion is about the opposite of what you're saying right now...

    Elemental Shamans are ripping people apart. Destro locks are about the only thing competitive. And everything else is really, really... Bad.
    the arena ladders that are not completely broken by the mmr bug are supporting my claims. i only looked at bloodlust, which is the battlegroup i play in and most of the high rated teams are some variations on shadowplay, shatterplay, MLS or WLD MWD

    right now demo locks are a lot scarier then destro locks, which is kind of unusual, but warlocks are still warlocks.

    its been a while since i saw a high rated ele sham outside of rated bgs, but i'm sure there are some doing well in arena in some less populous battlegroup.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredmana View Post
    See, the majority of opinion is about the opposite of what you're saying right now...

    Elemental Shamans are ripping people apart. Destro locks are about the only thing competitive. And everything else is really, really... Bad.
    After that horribly informed OP What on earth are you talking about now? Demo is the warlock spec, not Destro, Destro is OK in RBG, sometimes, occasionally.

    Ele is poor because they can be crazy trained by melees, enhance burst is the same or better and they counter casters more easily.

    Spriest is fine but burst can be random and they are fairly useless against shaman teams.

    Boomkin can be strong with the correct comps.

    Mages are obviously fantastic now.

  7. #27
    It's easy to fake a silence or an interrupt. it's impossible to fake a disarm.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 11:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Axi View Post
    After that horribly informed OP What on earth are you talking about now? Demo is the warlock spec, not Destro, Destro is OK in RBG, sometimes, occasionally.

    Ele is poor because they can be crazy trained by melees, enhance burst is the same or better and they counter casters more easily.

    Spriest is fine but burst can be random and they are fairly useless against shaman teams.

    Boomkin can be strong with the correct comps.

    Mages are obviously fantastic now.
    this

    asdasd

  8. #28
    Hunters can't use masters call, kill command, or use traps while silenced. Warriors can't shout, death knights can't use anything but strikes and I think rogues are the only class that isn't affected at all by silences.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredmana View Post
    Something has bothered me since the Wrath of the Lich King to Cataclysm class changes/abilities; Disarms went out the window with nearly every Class.

    While in that Blanket Silence the Caster effectively cannot do anything. There are currently thirteen Blanket Silence abilities across the board. In addition; Casters must watch out for nine other interrupt abilities. Now on the otherside of the board - Currently only three class/specs currently have Disarm effects (Shadow Priest - Psychic Horror| Warrior - Disarm | Rogue - Dismantle).

    That's a ratio of 22:3.

    To write it down in cold letters - There are 22 abilities to interrupt or Blanket Silence a caster in game as of now. There are only three abilities to disarm.

    Weapon Chains are hardly used anymore. Even in high rated arenas.
    Discuss.
    Do you not understand that while a rogue, warrior, melee is nova'd, or slowed (kited) they are effectively disarmed too?

    Some people, just think this through.........

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Crushima View Post
    Do you not understand that while a rogue, warrior, melee is nova'd, or slowed (kited) they are effectively disarmed too?

    Some people, just think this through.........
    warriors and rogues have personal cooldowns that can immune movement impairing effects, or play with a paladin/shaman/hunter who can freedom, or silence to prevent the casting of snares/roots/slows.

    no one can immune disarms.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  11. #31
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    Snares are also effectively hard CC against most melee classes. If you prevent attacks, defenses or spells from going out you effectively nullify that character in some way. Doesn't matter if it takes the form of a disarm, silence, stun, CC or a snare.

    We don't need more disarms to counter balance melee because they are already effected by everything in the above list. Maybe they aren't effected 100% by everything in the list but they are at least half to fully effected by each one of the listed things. Silence a Ret Paladin, DK or Enhancement Shaman and there are a number of things these specs can't do.

  12. #32
    Legendary! muto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehman View Post
    Slows affect melee characters more than they do ranged, so I'd say it balances out.
    All melee have gap closers

  13. #33
    the ridiculous amount of roots make up for it

    p.s.,
    interrupts shouldn't have silences on them, you shouldn't be rewarded for getting juked
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    All melee have gap closers
    running forward at 100% speed is not a gap closer.

  14. #34
    Silence =/= Interrupt. Many casters can do plenty while silenced as well.

    Disarms are a counter for melee burst, silences are necessary so casters can't cc chain everything into oblivion as well as being a counter to caster burst. Shatterplay with an rdruid cc is bad enough even with the number of silences/interrupts currently. You dont see disarm as an interrupt to melee cc'ing people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredmana View Post
    With Avatar? It's not like Fears, Incapacitate effects, and stuns help. Nor do slows against charge, lol intercept, lol charge. Not to mention Warrior's own CC - Fears, Stuns, Disarms, Blanket Silences and interrupts.
    Statements like this really kill any validity you might have had.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    All melee have gap closers
    Have you seen rogue mobility lately?

  16. #36
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roguez101 View Post
    alot of silences can be dispelled and interrupts juked but you cant avoid a disarm unless you dodge or parry it
    Can't dispel while silenced QQ
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  17. #37
    Bloodsail Admiral Ninaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredmana View Post
    How the duck did he do that?

    And how is that not nerfed yet? Forget the first part, not important.
    Last edited by Ninaran; 2012-11-12 at 04:03 AM.
    Ex-Rogue; Ex-Paladin
    Mastery will fix it.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    the arena ladders that are not completely broken by the mmr bug are supporting my claims. i only looked at bloodlust, which is the battlegroup i play in and most of the high rated teams are some variations on shadowplay, shatterplay, MLS or WLD MWD

    right now demo locks are a lot scarier then destro locks, which is kind of unusual, but warlocks are still warlocks.

    its been a while since i saw a high rated ele sham outside of rated bgs, but i'm sure there are some doing well in arena in some less populous battlegroup.
    This is the most correct statement in this thread.

    To all those crying about hunters and warriors, hunters are hotfixed and aren't nearly as scary anymore. For warriors, either CC them, use a defensive CD, or have partners peel for you when they pop their CDs. Stuns, blinds, disarms all shut down the warrior burst, without even having to use a defensive CD. Outside of CDs, neither hunters or warriors have strong damage. The Avatar nerf is completely over the top and the wrong thing to nerf, expect warriors to drop off the map.

    Caster comps are 100% dominating at the moment. The casters who are crying about hunter/warrior are those that are not playing above 2k MMR. Watch some high level streams and count the number of warriors/hunters. Pro-tip from somebody who plays at 2.2k+ mmr: far fewer than mage/shadowpriest/lock.

    If you're a rogue crying..I completely understand. You guys are pretty bad and I dont think 1m Blind is going to fix you.

  19. #39
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Generally, it seems you either get a disarm or a silence, with Monks and Spriests being the exception.
    O.O

    All the classes that have disarms have silences:

    Shadow - Psychic Horror / Silence
    Rogue - Disarm / Garrote
    Warrior - Disarm / Gag Order Blanket Silence
    Monks - Disarm / Kick Blanket Silence
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredmana View Post
    It's kinda like Silencing a Warrior... Complete waste.
    No, it's not anything like silencing a warrior, and no, it isn't a complete waste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninaran
    How the duck did he do that?

    And how is that not nerfed yet? Forget the first part, not important.
    He stacked Taste For Blood to 5, then popped all of his CDs and globaled the druid with heroic strike. It's not nerfed yet because, and this is a quote from Nakatoir (blue on the EU forums):
    Actually, in a way you can. If you monitor the Warriors buffs, you will be able to see the number of Taste for Blood (TFB) stacks that are building up and this is can indicate when the cooldowns are going to be popped and the big damage is incoming. So this allows you to be prepared for when they jump onto you and you can use your defensive cooldowns. Please understand that we are in no way saying that this damage is fine, but it does take a lot of work for a Warrior to do this and can be predicted.
    According to Blizzard, it takes a lot of work. In that video, Reck lands his first auto-attack at the 7 second mark. He had 5 stacks at 29 seconds. So, 22 seconds of buildup for a 1-shot.

    It's not even like this is chaos bolt or S8 elemental shaman lava burst. This has literally 0 cast time, so when Blizzard's advice is basically, "Pop a CD", they're asking you to preemptively get CDs up on your entire team.

    Now, let's say we do that. A mage ice blocks, a shadow priest disperses, a disc priest is already dead from 22 seconds of auto attack, rogue pops evasion + combat readiness, warrior shield walls, DK pops IBF and other DK CDs that I can't remember the name of off the top of my head, warlock pops absorb bubble, shaman pops astral shift, druid pops barkskin + iron bark (assuming they can stack, don't play a druid), etc...

    For sake of discussion, let's keep going and say the warrior dumps his heroic strike + 5 TFB stacks with all CDs up into the target. In Reckful's video, he'd still hit the target for 150k (barkskin is obviously going to mitigate a lot less). This team, in particular, has to tank Reckful for the next 20 seconds, because avatar makes him immune to snares + roots, and he'll be able to immunity the warlock's fears. Unless the druid pops NS cyclone (which Reckful would then trinket), he is not going to get any sort of breathing room.

    Ignoring that, what happens when Reckful gets another 5 stack in the next minute? Blizzard honestly expects everyone in the game to have a shield wall caliber cooldown on barkskin's CD.

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